Mental issues with running
Discussion
In two minds too post this but can anyone help me with my running please?
I am too be having a problem with the mental side of running. I.e. I train hard but when it comes to the races manage to talk myself out of a PB.
I can quite comfortably run 3:30 marathons but even with a 1:26 half can't do more than a 3:20. Does this make sense?
I am too be having a problem with the mental side of running. I.e. I train hard but when it comes to the races manage to talk myself out of a PB.
I can quite comfortably run 3:30 marathons but even with a 1:26 half can't do more than a 3:20. Does this make sense?
I'm not a coach, but are you sure the problem is a mental one? What is it during the full distance that limits your performance?
Might it simply be you're not good enough aerobically at the moment to run to your potential at 26.2?
What's your average training week look like mileage/session wise?
Might it simply be you're not good enough aerobically at the moment to run to your potential at 26.2?
What's your average training week look like mileage/session wise?
My two penneth-worth. And I am far from an expert by the way...just my opinion!
Sports (and indeed any other difficult challenges in life) are SO much more than just physical fitness. As you correctly identify, your mind is probably currently preventing you from reaching your full potential. Take comfort in the fact that it is not just you, even top althletes suffer from similar mental negativity.
For example. Years ago I started motorbike racing, and in my first amateur year, it was clear to me that despite knowing that the bike, suspension, tyres and everything mechanical could go round corners at a certain speed, I was not trusting them to do so. Very quickly it became apparent that the limiting factor was my own brain and mental issues. I had to overcome fear and basic survival instincts basically a way to turn off the voice in my head shouting at me that something wasn't possible, even though I knew it was.
I spent some money on seeing a sports psychologist, I didn't need many sessions to start to banish the mental monologue of negativity. A friend of mine at the time was also a regressive hypnotist too, I did some sessions with him which helped with visualisation techniques, forcing my brain to start concentrating on positive outcomes and never dwell on the negative ones.
Curve ball: I also bought into and used a branch of something that the Church of Scientology use, called 'Dianetics' - not recommended for everybody, but there's a chap called Keith Code who trained a raft of late 80's / early 90's american motorbike racers, most of whom became world champions at some point, using this technique. I took the bits which I found useful, and escaped before they indoctrinated me too far, haha!
But the simple fact of the matter is that our brains are hard-wired for self-preservatrion and survival first, which is great - but extremely unhelpful when it comes to sport and trying to push yourself beyond your own perceived limits.
Some mental hypnosis and sports psychology helped me immensely, and it may well help you too. Have a look at it, you never know.
Sports (and indeed any other difficult challenges in life) are SO much more than just physical fitness. As you correctly identify, your mind is probably currently preventing you from reaching your full potential. Take comfort in the fact that it is not just you, even top althletes suffer from similar mental negativity.
For example. Years ago I started motorbike racing, and in my first amateur year, it was clear to me that despite knowing that the bike, suspension, tyres and everything mechanical could go round corners at a certain speed, I was not trusting them to do so. Very quickly it became apparent that the limiting factor was my own brain and mental issues. I had to overcome fear and basic survival instincts basically a way to turn off the voice in my head shouting at me that something wasn't possible, even though I knew it was.
I spent some money on seeing a sports psychologist, I didn't need many sessions to start to banish the mental monologue of negativity. A friend of mine at the time was also a regressive hypnotist too, I did some sessions with him which helped with visualisation techniques, forcing my brain to start concentrating on positive outcomes and never dwell on the negative ones.
Curve ball: I also bought into and used a branch of something that the Church of Scientology use, called 'Dianetics' - not recommended for everybody, but there's a chap called Keith Code who trained a raft of late 80's / early 90's american motorbike racers, most of whom became world champions at some point, using this technique. I took the bits which I found useful, and escaped before they indoctrinated me too far, haha!
But the simple fact of the matter is that our brains are hard-wired for self-preservatrion and survival first, which is great - but extremely unhelpful when it comes to sport and trying to push yourself beyond your own perceived limits.
Some mental hypnosis and sports psychology helped me immensely, and it may well help you too. Have a look at it, you never know.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
My two penneth-worth. And I am far from an expert by the way...just my opinion!
Sports (and indeed any other difficult challenges in life) are SO much more than just physical fitness. As you correctly identify, your mind is probably currently preventing you from reaching your full potential. Take comfort in the fact that it is not just you, even top althletes suffer from similar mental negativity.
For example. Years ago I started motorbike racing, and in my first amateur year, it was clear to me that despite knowing that the bike, suspension, tyres and everything mechanical could go round corners at a certain speed, I was not trusting them to do so. Very quickly it became apparent that the limiting factor was my own brain and mental issues. I had to overcome fear and basic survival instincts basically a way to turn off the voice in my head shouting at me that something wasn't possible, even though I knew it was.
I spent some money on seeing a sports psychologist, I didn't need many sessions to start to banish the mental monologue of negativity. A friend of mine at the time was also a regressive hypnotist too, I did some sessions with him which helped with visualisation techniques, forcing my brain to start concentrating on positive outcomes and never dwell on the negative ones.
Curve ball: I also bought into and used a branch of something that the Church of Scientology use, called 'Dianetics' - not recommended for everybody, but there's a chap called Keith Code who trained a raft of late 80's / early 90's american motorbike racers, most of whom became world champions at some point, using this technique. I took the bits which I found useful, and escaped before they indoctrinated me too far, haha!
But the simple fact of the matter is that our brains are hard-wired for self-preservatrion and survival first, which is great - but extremely unhelpful when it comes to sport and trying to push yourself beyond your own perceived limits.
Some mental hypnosis and sports psychology helped me immensely, and it may well help you too. Have a look at it, you never know.
That is exactly what I am talking about, thanks man. Do you have any links or even the name/no of that person you used?Sports (and indeed any other difficult challenges in life) are SO much more than just physical fitness. As you correctly identify, your mind is probably currently preventing you from reaching your full potential. Take comfort in the fact that it is not just you, even top althletes suffer from similar mental negativity.
For example. Years ago I started motorbike racing, and in my first amateur year, it was clear to me that despite knowing that the bike, suspension, tyres and everything mechanical could go round corners at a certain speed, I was not trusting them to do so. Very quickly it became apparent that the limiting factor was my own brain and mental issues. I had to overcome fear and basic survival instincts basically a way to turn off the voice in my head shouting at me that something wasn't possible, even though I knew it was.
I spent some money on seeing a sports psychologist, I didn't need many sessions to start to banish the mental monologue of negativity. A friend of mine at the time was also a regressive hypnotist too, I did some sessions with him which helped with visualisation techniques, forcing my brain to start concentrating on positive outcomes and never dwell on the negative ones.
Curve ball: I also bought into and used a branch of something that the Church of Scientology use, called 'Dianetics' - not recommended for everybody, but there's a chap called Keith Code who trained a raft of late 80's / early 90's american motorbike racers, most of whom became world champions at some point, using this technique. I took the bits which I found useful, and escaped before they indoctrinated me too far, haha!
But the simple fact of the matter is that our brains are hard-wired for self-preservatrion and survival first, which is great - but extremely unhelpful when it comes to sport and trying to push yourself beyond your own perceived limits.
Some mental hypnosis and sports psychology helped me immensely, and it may well help you too. Have a look at it, you never know.
AndStilliRise said:
Today was a good example. Schedule was a an easy paced 20mile run. I have done 2 of these in recent weeks and did a marathon #50 in Dec 16. But while the body was more than capable I really struggled mentally. Could not wait for it to be over.
Perhaps your mind is saying why are you doing this? Do you enjoy it? Are you fuelling yourself before and during the run adequately? What is your goal in doing these distances? Ways to "trick" the mind I've found to make long runs enjoyable.
Do a big circular route rather than many close to home laps
Choose a new loop every run (new things to look at)
If you find a new path, take it and explore, see where you end up
I find all these help pass the time quicker on the the long run
Do a big circular route rather than many close to home laps
Choose a new loop every run (new things to look at)
If you find a new path, take it and explore, see where you end up
I find all these help pass the time quicker on the the long run
~40 marathons/ultras completed runner here. Your half marathon pace is about 5 minutes slower than my one and only half marathon (although it was hilly!) and I've done a bunch of 2:55-2:58 road marathons.
I'd say you can definitely improve on 3:30 assuming you do the right physical training, and I'd agree that some of your challenges are mental. The trick will be working out what fixes it for you.
Initially for me it was speedwork and lots of it. Hardly do any now and doing ultras broke the pressure of 26.2 being so far so there is no longer such a mental fear (e.g. At London last year I was in bits at 18 miles however in my head I could tell myself it was just a other 8 miles, so not far at all, bagged a new PB despite being a strone overweight too!).
Do you do your training runs alone?
What pace were you doing for your easy run?
Do you try and push yourself for a PB at every marathon?
How often do you run, what sort of schedule etc?
What I have learned is everyone is different and even an individuals training needs change over time.
Lets see if we can find something that works for you :-)
I'd say you can definitely improve on 3:30 assuming you do the right physical training, and I'd agree that some of your challenges are mental. The trick will be working out what fixes it for you.
Initially for me it was speedwork and lots of it. Hardly do any now and doing ultras broke the pressure of 26.2 being so far so there is no longer such a mental fear (e.g. At London last year I was in bits at 18 miles however in my head I could tell myself it was just a other 8 miles, so not far at all, bagged a new PB despite being a strone overweight too!).
Do you do your training runs alone?
What pace were you doing for your easy run?
Do you try and push yourself for a PB at every marathon?
How often do you run, what sort of schedule etc?
What I have learned is everyone is different and even an individuals training needs change over time.
Lets see if we can find something that works for you :-)
UpTheIron said:
~40 marathons/ultras completed runner here. Your half marathon pace is about 5 minutes slower than my one and only half marathon (although it was hilly!) and I've done a bunch of 2:55-2:58 road marathons.
I'd say you can definitely improve on 3:30 assuming you do the right physical training, and I'd agree that some of your challenges are mental. The trick will be working out what fixes it for you.
Initially for me it was speedwork and lots of it. Hardly do any now and doing ultras broke the pressure of 26.2 being so far so there is no longer such a mental fear (e.g. At London last year I was in bits at 18 miles however in my head I could tell myself it was just a other 8 miles, so not far at all, bagged a new PB despite being a strone overweight too!).
Do you do your training runs alone?
What pace were you doing for your easy run?
Do you try and push yourself for a PB at every marathon?
How often do you run, what sort of schedule etc?
What I have learned is everyone is different and even an individuals training needs change over time.
Lets see if we can find something that works for you :-)
Yes please!I'd say you can definitely improve on 3:30 assuming you do the right physical training, and I'd agree that some of your challenges are mental. The trick will be working out what fixes it for you.
Initially for me it was speedwork and lots of it. Hardly do any now and doing ultras broke the pressure of 26.2 being so far so there is no longer such a mental fear (e.g. At London last year I was in bits at 18 miles however in my head I could tell myself it was just a other 8 miles, so not far at all, bagged a new PB despite being a strone overweight too!).
Do you do your training runs alone?
What pace were you doing for your easy run?
Do you try and push yourself for a PB at every marathon?
How often do you run, what sort of schedule etc?
What I have learned is everyone is different and even an individuals training needs change over time.
Lets see if we can find something that works for you :-)
Most of my running is alone. Sometimes I have friend who joins me for a run at lunch but not often.
Easy run pace is 9mm or slower. Today I did 6m in 1:03! It is the last run of the week with Mon being a rest day.
I think this might be the problem, I am not pushing for a pb in marathons or races. Usually what happens is that I train hard for the event, turn up and subsequently talk myself into an easy pace to finish.
I am working on a 55-70pw P&D schedule at the moment. I completed a coached, schedule guide (paid for by me) for a Sub40 which got me a 40:50. I support the running with gym work/cycling.
I am conscious about my weight which at the moment is between 59-61kg, 5'7. There is V50@work who clocks 6mm like nothing giving him Sub18s and Sub36s and when I run with him he can drag me around in 6:30s, unfortunately he does not that often at work. It was also him who suggested that I need a head/sports coach.
One other thing, although I am not blindingly fast, if I turn up to a track session I normally finish ahead of the others. Again this maybe down to the groups but I have no intention of coming last.
UpTheIron said:
I'd say you can definitely improve on 3:30 assuming you do the right physical training
We've touched upon this in the running thread, but the above would be the first thing I would search inside myself for, rather than thinking it's something to do with mental approach or attitude to running a marathon well.In 2014, I was in a similar position to you where I was capable of running a sub-90 half marathon with less than specific training. When it came to the marathon, I was just as under-prepared in terms of specificity, but could only produce a 3:34 when various pacing calculators were saying I should have been in the region of 3:20 or so based on my then half marathon PB.
In 2016, I sped up to an 85 minute half marathon, again without much focused specificity. I then got myself elbow deep into the up to 55 miles a week P&D plan and produced a 3:03 marathon - only my third but the only one where I followed a plan. What I felt worked best for me were the weekly mid-week medium-long runs of 10 to 14 miles, and the liberal doses of distance at marathon pace - I frequently ran solo half marathons in under 90 minutes, which were bloody hard work, but gave me plenty of practice at the pace on tired legs.
What I'm trying to say is that we can often cheat shorter distances with less than ideal training, but not the marathon. Even plans like P&D only take you so far, capping long runs off at 20 - 23 miles, whereas runners training for a half marathon will regularly run 14 or 15 miles in practice.
Edited by Cybertronian on Monday 6th February 09:09
I've seen the you talk about many times and have a few suggestions about how to overcome it. I think P&D is excellent and I've used it myself for my own marathon PB, but I could not do all of the speedwork as it would have broken me.
- As said before, focus the speedwork to get quicker and then build endurance.
- Leave the watch at home for a few weeks (I did 6 months) You know how far the route is, so just run without looking at the splits. This will get you used to listening to your body. (This worked for me in 2010 when I improved just by running 40 miles a week on hills and taking out a 10 quid watch so no splits. I got used to how it felt and zero speedwork
- Run with others on the longer runs and if it's 20 miles, do 15 slow and then 5 at MP...
- Do tempo runs... at least 1 per week and 3-7 miles
- Don't tell anyone your targets and race in a place where you don't know people. It means that you don't know where you are in the race.
- Practice MP regularly
You half pace suggests to me a 3:08ish marathon (I work on 1:23 half gets you a sub 3) so it might be pacing or over exerting in the first few miles.
Happy to help diagnose or make other suggestions. My wife who is at best a 1:43 Half runner ran a 3:42 marathon and yet many people who were much faster than her over a half could never crack 4 hours. Some of it was racing every training run but most was setting an unrealistic goal.
1 long, 1 tempo, 1 speedwork and anything else is gravy.
- As said before, focus the speedwork to get quicker and then build endurance.
- Leave the watch at home for a few weeks (I did 6 months) You know how far the route is, so just run without looking at the splits. This will get you used to listening to your body. (This worked for me in 2010 when I improved just by running 40 miles a week on hills and taking out a 10 quid watch so no splits. I got used to how it felt and zero speedwork
- Run with others on the longer runs and if it's 20 miles, do 15 slow and then 5 at MP...
- Do tempo runs... at least 1 per week and 3-7 miles
- Don't tell anyone your targets and race in a place where you don't know people. It means that you don't know where you are in the race.
- Practice MP regularly
You half pace suggests to me a 3:08ish marathon (I work on 1:23 half gets you a sub 3) so it might be pacing or over exerting in the first few miles.
Happy to help diagnose or make other suggestions. My wife who is at best a 1:43 Half runner ran a 3:42 marathon and yet many people who were much faster than her over a half could never crack 4 hours. Some of it was racing every training run but most was setting an unrealistic goal.
1 long, 1 tempo, 1 speedwork and anything else is gravy.
Thanks for all your replies. Feeling it today, did a short handicap race and got dropped at the start. Carried on, telling myself just get round when the first lady appeared on my shoulder! Had to do something about that so sped up and managed to finish ahead of her. Not competitive but did not want to throw the towel into mumsnet!
egor110 said:
Maybe you need to try a different style/distance of running?
Give a ultra a bash so the whole min miles thing gets thrown out the window and it's just a case of finishing and enjoying the route.
^ well worth it, this whole min mile thing is some kind of illness with half/full marathon runners Give a ultra a bash so the whole min miles thing gets thrown out the window and it's just a case of finishing and enjoying the route.
get yourself out on a ultra, it'll put everything into perspective Fozziebear said:
egor110 said:
Maybe you need to try a different style/distance of running?
Give a ultra a bash so the whole min miles thing gets thrown out the window and it's just a case of finishing and enjoying the route.
^ well worth it, this whole min mile thing is some kind of illness with half/full marathon runners Give a ultra a bash so the whole min miles thing gets thrown out the window and it's just a case of finishing and enjoying the route.
get yourself out on a ultra, it'll put everything into perspective AndStilliRise said:
Have tried a couple of times, but hate them even more than marathons. I get through 26.2 and question what made me think this was a good idea.
And after you finished? How did you feel then?Try some trail marathons. They're not cheap but the EnduranceLife CTS ones are pretty good - I did all of them a couple of years ago. Mainly the ultra's but a few marathons as well. I had done a few ultras before this (including The Wall, 69 miles), but regularly doing 30-40 mile races with no way of maintaining a steady pace helped me switch off from the worry of sticking to a particular pace.
The biggest benefit though was when running London that year... aching legs at 16 miles (due to an ultra a fortnight before), all my mind said was "it's only another 10, this is a short race".
AndStilliRise said:
Fozziebear said:
egor110 said:
Maybe you need to try a different style/distance of running?
Give a ultra a bash so the whole min miles thing gets thrown out the window and it's just a case of finishing and enjoying the route.
^ well worth it, this whole min mile thing is some kind of illness with half/full marathon runners Give a ultra a bash so the whole min miles thing gets thrown out the window and it's just a case of finishing and enjoying the route.
get yourself out on a ultra, it'll put everything into perspective Fozziebear said:
Sounds like you need to jack in running and find another sport. I've had it a couple of times in ultras when I've thought stuff this I'm off home, then I've had a little mental chat and got on with it. You either want to run or not, you can't force it.
I wonder the same myself but I always feel good afterwards which keeps me going back...!Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff