Patella support at gym

[V8Taxi]

Hi all, first time posting here but hopefully someone can advise me on my issue.

Over the last 20 years I've had a recurring knee problem. I've dislocated my patella countless times, had it cleaned out several times and had tissue surgery in the past (although it now needs attention again).

Anyway, it's never been right, it's uncomfortable/painful every day and it's deteriorated that much that I doubt it will ever be much good. But can anyone recommend a type of support/strap that will keep the kneecap in place when I'm at the gym? I do a mixture of weights and cardio and on certain days it really gives me grief - like today, after dead lifting. It just feels incredibly unstable.

Any help greatly appreciated.

[Enda78]

I tried all sorts of knee supports that didn't work before trying these and they have helped massively with my knee pain.

http://www.boots.com/neo-g-patella-band-universal-...

[V8Taxi]

Enda78 said:

I tried all sorts of knee supports that didn't work before trying these and they have helped massively with my knee pain.

http://www.boots.com/neo-g-patella-band-universal-...

Thank you, that's very helpful. Mine dislocates laterally (right knee, dislocates over to the right side) so hopefully this support will help stabilise it.

Ta very much.

[The Ferret]

V8Taxi said:

Hi all, first time posting here but hopefully someone can advise me on my issue.

Over the last 20 years I've had a recurring knee problem. I've dislocated my patella countless times, had it cleaned out several times and had tissue surgery in the past (although it now needs attention again).

Anyway, it's never been right, it's uncomfortable/painful every day and it's deteriorated that much that I doubt it will ever be much good. But can anyone recommend a type of support/strap that will keep the kneecap in place when I'm at the gym? I do a mixture of weights and cardio and on certain days it really gives me grief - like today, after dead lifting. It just feels incredibly unstable.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Mate while you won't want to hear this, the best advise is the obvious. Steer clear of deadlifting and in general exercises that put that kind of stress on the knee (road running being another). There are plenty of other exercises that can be done to work the same muscles.

I suffer with bipartite patella, and according to my Physio (who I've not seen now for 5 years, so she did her job properly) it's more than likely I'll need a replacement at some point in my life. That point will be determined by the choices I make. I've followed the advice she gave me and so far everything has been spot on (Building/Strengthening the quads and muscle patterning around the knee). Deadlifting is probably one of the worst things you can do on a dodgy knee.

[V8Taxi]

The Ferret said:

Mate while you won't want to hear this, the best advise is the obvious. Steer clear of deadlifting and in general exercises that put that kind of stress on the knee (road running being another). There are plenty of other exercises that can be done to work the same muscles.

I suffer with bipartite patella, and according to my Physio (who I've not seen now for 5 years, so she did her job properly) it's more than likely I'll need a replacement at some point in my life. That point will be determined by the choices I make. I've followed the advice she gave me and so far everything has been spot on (Building/Strengthening the quads and muscle patterning around the knee). Deadlifting is probably one of the worst things you can do on a dodgy knee.

Thanks for the advice.

You know what, for the longest time I did actually avoid dead lifting for this very reason, and I don't run due to the impact caused - I tend to do cross training or cycling. It's only the last few months that I've got back into dead lifting in the hope that if I'm careful then it won't cause me any bother, particularly if I support the patella properly.

I haven't dislocated it in a few years, but over the years I must have done it a good dozen times or more (between the ages of about 14 and my late 20s. I'm now 34). The issue is caused by the lack of a groove in the femur for the knee cap to locate, so the cap doesn't track properly and is kind of sat on its side. I've got the issue of bone against bone, and also tissue deterioration.

What exercises have you undertaken to improve the muscle around the knee? I did use a physio after my last surgery, which was a lateral tissue release - cutting it to try and "float" the patella central again. It didn't work and I'm back where I was, but I don't think the physio therapist was any good either.

I struggle with training legs too, my range of movement has to be very narrow so as to try to avoid the joint clicking and causing great discomfort. It actually clicks and grinds every single time I bend my leg even when not training. How do you get around the leg training issue?

Cheers.

[The Ferret]

To be honest mate it sounds as though your condition is a lot more debilitating than mine, although I can relate to the constant clicking. Mine used to do it a lot but not so much nowadays. Maybe that's due to the physio work and subsequent training I've done on it, but I barely notice it now.

In terms of building the muscle around the knee, I find my exercise bike has worked a treat, with the added bonus that once you really get into it your fitness improves big time. I started out with 30 minutes every other day with the resistance about half way. I didn't really feel as though it was doing much for my strength or fitness, although it was probably building a base from which to progress. It wasn't until I started cranking up the resistance that I noticed the real difference. I'm currently doing approx 45 minutes at almost max resistance, and you can really feel the burn - but I feel in control whereas with other exercises I always got that awkward feeling when I pushed things that something was going to go wrong (the worst is the feeling the knee is about to give out and bend the opposite way it should). I didn't think the bike would add any muscle, but it definitely has.

I'm not saying I'll never deadlift again, maybe once I'm a bit further down the line, but it would be the last thing on my mind if starting from scratch again.

[Hoofy]

For gentle leg training, I'd do something like tai chi because of the amount of work your legs do without actually trying to push you to your physical limits in a no-pain-no-gain kind of way.

Most people who start at one of my classes always say how achy their leg muscles are afterwards.

Also, for deads you don't have to do 1RMs every session. You could focus more on functional fitness and use just half your bodyweight (assuming you're already gunning for twice bodyweight).

[V8Taxi]

The Ferret said:

To be honest mate it sounds as though your condition is a lot more debilitating than mine, although I can relate to the constant clicking. Mine used to do it a lot but not so much nowadays. Maybe that's due to the physio work and subsequent training I've done on it, but I barely notice it now.

In terms of building the muscle around the knee, I find my exercise bike has worked a treat, with the added bonus that once you really get into it your fitness improves big time. I started out with 30 minutes every other day with the resistance about half way. I didn't really feel as though it was doing much for my strength or fitness, although it was probably building a base from which to progress. It wasn't until I started cranking up the resistance that I noticed the real difference. I'm currently doing approx 45 minutes at almost max resistance, and you can really feel the burn - but I feel in control whereas with other exercises I always got that awkward feeling when I pushed things that something was going to go wrong (the worst is the feeling the knee is about to give out and bend the opposite way it should). I didn't think the bike would add any muscle, but it definitely has.

I'm not saying I'll never deadlift again, maybe once I'm a bit further down the line, but it would be the last thing on my mind if starting from scratch again.

I ought to do more on the bike then. I do use it but mostly use the cross trainer so perhaps the motion of the bike might be more beneficial. It's difficult to know what action causes me the pain - it's hard enough even pinpointing where it hurts as the pain often seems to be coming from all areas of the knee. Some days just walking the dogs can do it, other days crouching down, sometimes it's a combination of all of that and the gym stuff.

Hoofy said:

For gentle leg training, I'd do something like tai chi because of the amount of work your legs do without actually trying to push you to your physical limits in a no-pain-no-gain kind of way.

Most people who start at one of my classes always say how achy their leg muscles are afterwards.

Also, for deads you don't have to do 1RMs every session. You could focus more on functional fitness and use just half your bodyweight (assuming you're already gunning for twice bodyweight).

Thanks, I'll look into the tai chi thing, it's not something I'd even thought of.

With the DLs, I'm not doing 1RM's. When I started re-doing them back end of last year, I started doing 8-10 reps at lower weight and have worked my way up to 150kg (I weigh 100kg) @ 5-7 reps. I would like to end up at 200kg but I'm trying to build strength slowly. I seem to have plateaued a bit in some areas so I'm generally reducing reps and increasing weight all-round.

Do you think it might be an idea to keep the weight around 100kg then and do more reps (WRT to dead lifts only)?

[Hoofy]

V8Taxi said:

Thanks, I'll look into the tai chi thing, it's not something I'd even thought of.

With the DLs, I'm not doing 1RM's. When I started re-doing them back end of last year, I started doing 8-10 reps at lower weight and have worked my way up to 150kg (I weigh 100kg) @ 5-7 reps. I would like to end up at 200kg but I'm trying to build strength slowly. I seem to have plateaued a bit in some areas so I'm generally reducing reps and increasing weight all-round.

Do you think it might be an idea to keep the weight around 100kg then and do more reps (WRT to dead lifts only)?

If it's causing you pain, I'd wind it right back to 50kg or whatever and focus on functional fitness rather than fking your knee!

Guess it depends on your priorities.

[The Ferret]

V8Taxi said:

Thanks, I'll look into the tai chi thing, it's not something I'd even thought of.

With the DLs, I'm not doing 1RM's. When I started re-doing them back end of last year, I started doing 8-10 reps at lower weight and have worked my way up to 150kg (I weigh 100kg) @ 5-7 reps. I would like to end up at 200kg but I'm trying to build strength slowly. I seem to have plateaued a bit in some areas so I'm generally reducing reps and increasing weight all-round.

Do you think it might be an idea to keep the weight around 100kg then and do more reps (WRT to dead lifts only)?

See a Physio mate and get some advice. Without knowing the exact problem with the knee its impossible to really know what's best.

I can only suggest that most Physios would wince at thought of someone deadlifting 150kg on a dodgy knee, but it does depend what exactly is wrong with it.

If as I suspect, they tell you to pack it in, there are plenty of exercises that can work the same muscles just as effectively without such stress on the knee itself. You might have to work harder to see the same results as deadlifting, but to me it's an acceptable trade off.

[V8Taxi]

Good and fair points points both of you. Perhaps a decent physio would be a good place to start and I'll certainly look into alternative ways of building the same muscles. My priority certainly isn't training over the general condition of my knee.

Thanks very much for your thoughts chaps.