Depressed MIL suggestions please
Discussion
She was 85 widowed 6 yrs ago.
She's been pretty good over the last few yrs, She was on tranquilisers while my FIL was ill, once he passed, after a year or so she was able to come off them. Moved to be closer to us, Mrs PR spends a few hours each day with her but she's lonely, not sleeping and very sorry for herself.
She'll talk to some of her old friends on the telephone but won't meet up with them (we encourage her with lifts etc) She'll talk the hind legs off a donkey with people in the park (walking her yorkie) but if anyone invites her to a local event/coffee morning/in for tea she'll refuse. The excuse is she'll think she's being presumptuous. She used to enjoy keep fit classes until she moved, but won't get involved with anything locally, if we offer to drive her over to the previous classes she'll decline.
Refusing to visit the doctors, or any local groups/activities (accompanied or unaccompanied) Her pastimes are walking yorkie, television & reading + lunches out and shopping with Mrs PR.
She's been on a couple of cruises and has some more booked. Always full of herself with all the lovely people she meets whilst away, but when back won't keep in touch with any of them.
Any suggestions?
She's been pretty good over the last few yrs, She was on tranquilisers while my FIL was ill, once he passed, after a year or so she was able to come off them. Moved to be closer to us, Mrs PR spends a few hours each day with her but she's lonely, not sleeping and very sorry for herself.
She'll talk to some of her old friends on the telephone but won't meet up with them (we encourage her with lifts etc) She'll talk the hind legs off a donkey with people in the park (walking her yorkie) but if anyone invites her to a local event/coffee morning/in for tea she'll refuse. The excuse is she'll think she's being presumptuous. She used to enjoy keep fit classes until she moved, but won't get involved with anything locally, if we offer to drive her over to the previous classes she'll decline.
Refusing to visit the doctors, or any local groups/activities (accompanied or unaccompanied) Her pastimes are walking yorkie, television & reading + lunches out and shopping with Mrs PR.
She's been on a couple of cruises and has some more booked. Always full of herself with all the lovely people she meets whilst away, but when back won't keep in touch with any of them.
Any suggestions?
My grandma is like that, very little interest in socialist but when she was in care for a few weeks after an op she seemed to quite enjoy it, that said, went round the other day and she turned the telly off, then it got back to me she was moaning I turned up in the middle of her programme, so b
ks to her, make an effort to go round regularly and she prefers Bargain Hunt or some such crap 
Sometimes, you can make and effort and it stresses you, sometimes folk want to wallow, wont do anything you suggest, so let them get on with it.
ks to her, make an effort to go round regularly and she prefers Bargain Hunt or some such crap Sometimes, you can make and effort and it stresses you, sometimes folk want to wallow, wont do anything you suggest, so let them get on with it.
CinnamonFan said:
Is she still living in the house she lived in when her husband was alive?
What does she tell you when you ask her why she declines the things you offer her?
After her husband passed (ill for a long time carers 3 times a day, major source of stress) she moved to be closer to us. Without the stress of caring for her bedridden husband things (mood) picked up, moving helped, with the excitement of "doing up" her new flat. All of a sudden she was able to do things and move on and had a new lease of life. What does she tell you when you ask her why she declines the things you offer her?
This was 4 yrs ago, we'd hoped being a chatty and social animal she'd soon develop a circle of friends. She can still get to see some of her old pals, 30mins away, so they'll come over occasionally or we take her. However this is becoming more infrequent, due to illness, immobility, death.
She's reluctant to pursue any new relationship, beyond a chat in the park or exchanging pleasantries. Several people (ladies and a gentlemen), have extended the arm of friendship, invited her round for tea and a chat. She has gone, enjoyed herself but won't invite them back, despite having a lovely home of which she is rightly very proud. If they have gone on to invite her to a coffee morning etc she declines.
Whenever we suggest something excuses are made, wrong sort of exercise class/coffee morning/activity, or she just goes quiet and changes the subject. Regarding friends (new or old) she doesn't want to be "presumptuous". It's almost like she's put her life "on hold". She'd go if Mrs PR went with her, it doesn't really help long term though, she'll just focus on Mrs PR then and doesn't get involved. She'll then refuse to go if Mrs PR isn't attending, so it's not as easy as getting her introduced and after a few weeks leaving her to it.
We're going to a "do" in a few weeks, I'm expecting some of her old pals to be there which may help.
Otherwise a physically fit 85 y/o, manages stairs, walks her dog, shopping, catches bus to the next town, cooks. cleans (flat kept like a new pin). Enjoys TV & reading, recently acquired an ipad and lessons at the local library (albeit not really confident with it). She's had a health check, no signs of dementia. Going on a Saga cruise soon to the Norwegian Fiords, but not allowing herself to look forward to it. (3rd cruise in the last couple of years)
Mrs PR spends an hour or two each day with her, plus numerous telephone calls, sundays she's with us for the day, If this doesn't happen though she goes into a decline. She's become emotionally reliant on Mrs PR, which Mrs PR finds difficult.
PositronicRay said:
After her husband passed (ill for a long time carers 3 times a day, major source of stress) she moved to be closer to us. Without the stress of caring for her bedridden husband things (mood) picked up, moving helped, with the excitement of "doing up" her new flat. All of a sudden she was able to do things and move on and had a new lease of life.
This was 4 yrs ago, we'd hoped being a chatty and social animal she'd soon develop a circle of friends. She can still get to see some of her old pals, 30mins away, so they'll come over occasionally or we take her. However this is becoming more infrequent, due to illness, immobility, death.
She's reluctant to pursue any new relationship, beyond a chat in the park or exchanging pleasantries. Several people (ladies and a gentlemen), have extended the arm of friendship, invited her round for tea and a chat. She has gone, enjoyed herself but won't invite them back, despite having a lovely home of which she is rightly very proud. If they have gone on to invite her to a coffee morning etc she declines.
Whenever we suggest something excuses are made, wrong sort of exercise class/coffee morning/activity, or she just goes quiet and changes the subject. Regarding friends (new or old) she doesn't want to be "presumptuous". It's almost like she's put her life "on hold". She'd go if Mrs PR went with her, it doesn't really help long term though, she'll just focus on Mrs PR then and doesn't get involved. She'll then refuse to go if Mrs PR isn't attending, so it's not as easy as getting her introduced and after a few weeks leaving her to it.
We're going to a "do" in a few weeks, I'm expecting some of her old pals to be there which may help.
Otherwise a physically fit 85 y/o, manages stairs, walks her dog, shopping, catches bus to the next town, cooks. cleans (flat kept like a new pin). Enjoys TV & reading, recently acquired an ipad and lessons at the local library (albeit not really confident with it). She's had a health check, no signs of dementia. Going on a Saga cruise soon to the Norwegian Fiords, but not allowing herself to look forward to it. (3rd cruise in the last couple of years)
Mrs PR spends an hour or two each day with her, plus numerous telephone calls, sundays she's with us for the day, If this doesn't happen though she goes into a decline. She's become emotionally reliant on Mrs PR, which Mrs PR finds difficult.
Do you think if you and Mrs PR stopped offering her forms of socialising she would arrange them alone or become further reclusive? She may be declining them all because she feels you are telling her to do these things and she feels they are outside of her comfort zone. Although her behaviour as you described it isnt causing harm currently, so perhaps she just prefers her own company, at least for now.This was 4 yrs ago, we'd hoped being a chatty and social animal she'd soon develop a circle of friends. She can still get to see some of her old pals, 30mins away, so they'll come over occasionally or we take her. However this is becoming more infrequent, due to illness, immobility, death.
She's reluctant to pursue any new relationship, beyond a chat in the park or exchanging pleasantries. Several people (ladies and a gentlemen), have extended the arm of friendship, invited her round for tea and a chat. She has gone, enjoyed herself but won't invite them back, despite having a lovely home of which she is rightly very proud. If they have gone on to invite her to a coffee morning etc she declines.
Whenever we suggest something excuses are made, wrong sort of exercise class/coffee morning/activity, or she just goes quiet and changes the subject. Regarding friends (new or old) she doesn't want to be "presumptuous". It's almost like she's put her life "on hold". She'd go if Mrs PR went with her, it doesn't really help long term though, she'll just focus on Mrs PR then and doesn't get involved. She'll then refuse to go if Mrs PR isn't attending, so it's not as easy as getting her introduced and after a few weeks leaving her to it.
We're going to a "do" in a few weeks, I'm expecting some of her old pals to be there which may help.
Otherwise a physically fit 85 y/o, manages stairs, walks her dog, shopping, catches bus to the next town, cooks. cleans (flat kept like a new pin). Enjoys TV & reading, recently acquired an ipad and lessons at the local library (albeit not really confident with it). She's had a health check, no signs of dementia. Going on a Saga cruise soon to the Norwegian Fiords, but not allowing herself to look forward to it. (3rd cruise in the last couple of years)
Mrs PR spends an hour or two each day with her, plus numerous telephone calls, sundays she's with us for the day, If this doesn't happen though she goes into a decline. She's become emotionally reliant on Mrs PR, which Mrs PR finds difficult.
As you can probably tell its stumped me a bit.
It sounds like she isn't letting anyone close to her. Being sociable etc. on cruises is quite possibly just a 'mask' of sorts, she's able to play the correct social role but that isn't how she actually feels.
The fact she's still doing these things is good, as the alternative of constantly remaining indoors is a slippery slope.
One piece of advice I'd offer, which may be why Mrs PR is so popular, is perhaps the first step is to try and listen to why she feels the way she does. In my personal experience, men have a predisposition to try and fix things. If your partner says they're thirsty, you offer to get them a drink or some such.
With something like depression, the person doesn't need a 'solution', they need support, someone to listen to how they feel and to try and empathise, but mostly to listen and take them seriously.
I've been with my very depressed partner for 7 years, and it took me probably about 5 years before I even vaguely began to 'understand' (I'm still fking useless really).
Another part of taking it seriously is to ask difficult questions. Asking her if she still sees a reason to be alive after her husband's death, whether she has thought it'd be easier if she was dead, what's the point in carrying on, these sorts of questions are not going to 'put ideas in her head' or anything, they show her that you are actually taking her level of emotional suffering seriously, and that you care enough to try and understand how she is actually feeling. Naturally to many people this sort of frank discussion about their feelings can be very challenging or not considered 'proper' or 'British' and she may give you nothing, but the fact that you've cared enough to ask will mean something.
She is quite possibly feeling like she doesn't matter any more. I'd bet she was very important to her husband, and now that he is gone, she probably thinks that nobody considers her worth caring about now. Obviously Mrs PR does, but if she feels she's worthless, then she won't believe that anyone would want to come back to her place to spend time with her, she will dismiss friendly people as just being polite because she isn't worth caring about.
I'm probably rambling by now, I hope you manage to help your MIL, all the best
The fact she's still doing these things is good, as the alternative of constantly remaining indoors is a slippery slope.
One piece of advice I'd offer, which may be why Mrs PR is so popular, is perhaps the first step is to try and listen to why she feels the way she does. In my personal experience, men have a predisposition to try and fix things. If your partner says they're thirsty, you offer to get them a drink or some such.
With something like depression, the person doesn't need a 'solution', they need support, someone to listen to how they feel and to try and empathise, but mostly to listen and take them seriously.
I've been with my very depressed partner for 7 years, and it took me probably about 5 years before I even vaguely began to 'understand' (I'm still f
king useless really).Another part of taking it seriously is to ask difficult questions. Asking her if she still sees a reason to be alive after her husband's death, whether she has thought it'd be easier if she was dead, what's the point in carrying on, these sorts of questions are not going to 'put ideas in her head' or anything, they show her that you are actually taking her level of emotional suffering seriously, and that you care enough to try and understand how she is actually feeling. Naturally to many people this sort of frank discussion about their feelings can be very challenging or not considered 'proper' or 'British' and she may give you nothing, but the fact that you've cared enough to ask will mean something.
She is quite possibly feeling like she doesn't matter any more. I'd bet she was very important to her husband, and now that he is gone, she probably thinks that nobody considers her worth caring about now. Obviously Mrs PR does, but if she feels she's worthless, then she won't believe that anyone would want to come back to her place to spend time with her, she will dismiss friendly people as just being polite because she isn't worth caring about.
I'm probably rambling by now, I hope you manage to help your MIL, all the best
SturdyHSV said:
It sounds like she isn't letting anyone close to her. Being sociable etc. on cruises is quite possibly just a 'mask' of sorts, she's able to play the correct social role but that isn't how she actually feels.
The fact she's still doing these things is good, as the alternative of constantly remaining indoors is a slippery slope.
One piece of advice I'd offer, which may be why Mrs PR is so popular, is perhaps the first step is to try and listen to why she feels the way she does. In my personal experience, men have a predisposition to try and fix things. If your partner says they're thirsty, you offer to get them a drink or some such.
With something like depression, the person doesn't need a 'solution', they need support, someone to listen to how they feel and to try and empathise, but mostly to listen and take them seriously.
I've been with my very depressed partner for 7 years, and it took me probably about 5 years before I even vaguely began to 'understand' (I'm still fking useless really).
Another part of taking it seriously is to ask difficult questions. Asking her if she still sees a reason to be alive after her husband's death, whether she has thought it'd be easier if she was dead, what's the point in carrying on, these sorts of questions are not going to 'put ideas in her head' or anything, they show her that you are actually taking her level of emotional suffering seriously, and that you care enough to try and understand how she is actually feeling. Naturally to many people this sort of frank discussion about their feelings can be very challenging or not considered 'proper' or 'British' and she may give you nothing, but the fact that you've cared enough to ask will mean something.
She is quite possibly feeling like she doesn't matter any more. I'd bet she was very important to her husband, and now that he is gone, she probably thinks that nobody considers her worth caring about now. Obviously Mrs PR does, but if she feels she's worthless, then she won't believe that anyone would want to come back to her place to spend time with her, she will dismiss friendly people as just being polite because she isn't worth caring about.
I'm probably rambling by now, I hope you manage to help your MIL, all the best
Thank you, sensible post.The fact she's still doing these things is good, as the alternative of constantly remaining indoors is a slippery slope.
One piece of advice I'd offer, which may be why Mrs PR is so popular, is perhaps the first step is to try and listen to why she feels the way she does. In my personal experience, men have a predisposition to try and fix things. If your partner says they're thirsty, you offer to get them a drink or some such.
With something like depression, the person doesn't need a 'solution', they need support, someone to listen to how they feel and to try and empathise, but mostly to listen and take them seriously.
I've been with my very depressed partner for 7 years, and it took me probably about 5 years before I even vaguely began to 'understand' (I'm still f
king useless really).Another part of taking it seriously is to ask difficult questions. Asking her if she still sees a reason to be alive after her husband's death, whether she has thought it'd be easier if she was dead, what's the point in carrying on, these sorts of questions are not going to 'put ideas in her head' or anything, they show her that you are actually taking her level of emotional suffering seriously, and that you care enough to try and understand how she is actually feeling. Naturally to many people this sort of frank discussion about their feelings can be very challenging or not considered 'proper' or 'British' and she may give you nothing, but the fact that you've cared enough to ask will mean something.
She is quite possibly feeling like she doesn't matter any more. I'd bet she was very important to her husband, and now that he is gone, she probably thinks that nobody considers her worth caring about now. Obviously Mrs PR does, but if she feels she's worthless, then she won't believe that anyone would want to come back to her place to spend time with her, she will dismiss friendly people as just being polite because she isn't worth caring about.
I'm probably rambling by now, I hope you manage to help your MIL, all the best
You've summed it up quite well, the last paragraph certainly feels pertinent.
CinnamonFan said:
Do you think if you and Mrs PR stopped offering her forms of socialising she would arrange them alone or become further reclusive? She may be declining them all because she feels you are telling her to do these things and she feels they are outside of her comfort zone. Although her behaviour as you described it isnt causing harm currently, so perhaps she just prefers her own company, at least for now.
As you can probably tell its stumped me a bit.
She's not reclusive, but miserable, I don't think she'll withdraw (as my mother did) she enjoys company and going out. Last night she was having panic attacks, she used to have them when caring for my FIL, at the time she was close to a breakdown. Once he died she was able to take positive steps to turn her life around, took years off her appearance, things really started to look up. As you can probably tell its stumped me a bit.
5 yrs ago she was a stronger person, strong enough to take control, she's still physically fit though. I think Sturdy has nailed it, lack of self worth with Mrs PR as her crutch.
If Mrs PR couldn't pay her so much attention I believe she'd would go into a decline.
We'll work on her this weekend to speak to the GP.
PositronicRay said:
She's not reclusive, but miserable, I don't think she'll withdraw (as my mother did) she enjoys company and going out. Last night she was having panic attacks, she used to have them when caring for my FIL, at the time she was close to a breakdown. Once he died she was able to take positive steps to turn her life around, took years off her appearance, things really started to look up.
5 yrs ago she was a stronger person, strong enough to take control, she's still physically fit though. I think Sturdy has nailed it, lack of self worth with Mrs PR as her crutch.
If Mrs PR couldn't pay her so much attention I believe she'd would go into a decline.
We'll work on her this weekend to speak to the GP.
How did it go, has she managed to see a GP?5 yrs ago she was a stronger person, strong enough to take control, she's still physically fit though. I think Sturdy has nailed it, lack of self worth with Mrs PR as her crutch.
If Mrs PR couldn't pay her so much attention I believe she'd would go into a decline.
We'll work on her this weekend to speak to the GP.
It can be helpful to be diagnosed, it can help alleviate the guilt of feeling 'down' when you know others are worse off etc., help her realise that it isn't her fault that she feels how she does, that it isn't a failing on her part or weakness in her character.
SturdyHSV said:
PositronicRay said:
She's not reclusive, but miserable, I don't think she'll withdraw (as my mother did) she enjoys company and going out. Last night she was having panic attacks, she used to have them when caring for my FIL, at the time she was close to a breakdown. Once he died she was able to take positive steps to turn her life around, took years off her appearance, things really started to look up.
5 yrs ago she was a stronger person, strong enough to take control, she's still physically fit though. I think Sturdy has nailed it, lack of self worth with Mrs PR as her crutch.
If Mrs PR couldn't pay her so much attention I believe she'd would go into a decline.
We'll work on her this weekend to speak to the GP.
How did it go, has she managed to see a GP?5 yrs ago she was a stronger person, strong enough to take control, she's still physically fit though. I think Sturdy has nailed it, lack of self worth with Mrs PR as her crutch.
If Mrs PR couldn't pay her so much attention I believe she'd would go into a decline.
We'll work on her this weekend to speak to the GP.
It can be helpful to be diagnosed, it can help alleviate the guilt of feeling 'down' when you know others are worse off etc., help her realise that it isn't her fault that she feels how she does, that it isn't a failing on her part or weakness in her character.
She has some pain in hips and knees as well so this doesn't help. She's now off on a week's Norwegian cruise but not really looked forward to it, talking about cancelling a river cruise in August.
Mrs PR reckons she'll be able to get her to docs once she's back from Norway.
She's had this situation for most of her life, some dodgy times followed by a decent year or two.
Agreed a diagnosis often helps, she's stubborn though.
Edited by PositronicRay on Saturday 20th May 17:40
MIL due back off cruise today, sounds like she's had a nice time and palled up with some people.
Whilst away Mrs PR popped round to her flat, and found a message on her ansaphone. It was from a lovely local lady, living in accommodation for retired clergy, about 200 meters away. Inviting MIL & yorkie round for a tea and a sit in the garden (MIL has a balcony and landscaped grounds at the flat but I know loves sitting in gardens drinking tea!)
Mrs PR popped round to explain MIL was on holiday, and she'll contact her on her return, hoping she won't spurn this opportunity.
Whilst away Mrs PR popped round to her flat, and found a message on her ansaphone. It was from a lovely local lady, living in accommodation for retired clergy, about 200 meters away. Inviting MIL & yorkie round for a tea and a sit in the garden (MIL has a balcony and landscaped grounds at the flat but I know loves sitting in gardens drinking tea!)
Mrs PR popped round to explain MIL was on holiday, and she'll contact her on her return, hoping she won't spurn this opportunity.
Well she went to the doctors, offered counseling and drugs, turned down the counseling.
Still not interested in socialising, getting stressed over tiny things, not sleeping properly. We took her to a birthday party for one of her friends, her biggest and oldest pal. Put a brave face on it, but body language not great.
If she's still down next weekend we'll try to encourage her to take some counseling.
Still not interested in socialising, getting stressed over tiny things, not sleeping properly. We took her to a birthday party for one of her friends, her biggest and oldest pal. Put a brave face on it, but body language not great.
If she's still down next weekend we'll try to encourage her to take some counseling.
The drugs seem to be helping, no more panic attacks during the night. Another family/friends do happening @ the end of july but not looking forward to it. A bit out of character, not long ago she'd be excited, planning outfits etc.
Going back to the docs soon to have some leg pains and poor circulation looked at.
Going back to the docs soon to have some leg pains and poor circulation looked at.
PositronicRay said:
227bhp said:
'The drugs' ? ADs?
Not sure, I think so, I'll find out.Ultimately the point of the medication is to give the person a bit of help in coping with the illness, it isn't a case of numbing you to everything or turning you in to a zombie or whatever stereotypes hang around the subject. There is a big and frankly dangerous stigma attached to the idea of taking medication for mental health, which one can only assume is rooted in the perception that it's not a real illness, thus shouldn't need medication.
As (I assume) your MIL is of a reasonable vintage, she's probably had that sort of 'stiff upper lip' mentality drummed in to her for decades, so it may be worth seeing how she is feeling about taking the medication, if she is seeing it as a failure of her character, a weakness etc. then that'll just make her feel worse, and she's less likely to stick to the dosage routine and thus those weeks for the effects to normalise will take longer, if ever being successful.
All the best as always
SturdyHSV said:
PositronicRay said:
227bhp said:
'The drugs' ? ADs?
Not sure, I think so, I'll find out.Ultimately the point of the medication is to give the person a bit of help in coping with the illness, it isn't a case of numbing you to everything or turning you in to a zombie or whatever stereotypes hang around the subject. There is a big and frankly dangerous stigma attached to the idea of taking medication for mental health, which one can only assume is rooted in the perception that it's not a real illness, thus shouldn't need medication.
As (I assume) your MIL is of a reasonable vintage, she's probably had that sort of 'stiff upper lip' mentality drummed in to her for decades, so it may be worth seeing how she is feeling about taking the medication, if she is seeing it as a failure of her character, a weakness etc. then that'll just make her feel worse, and she's less likely to stick to the dosage routine and thus those weeks for the effects to normalise will take longer, if ever being successful.
All the best as always
She's 85 and been on this particular drug before, it helped in the past and certainly helping now to give her a breathing space.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff