Have a had a panic attack, or more sinister

[myheadhurts]

Firstly, I am a regular PH'er, for reasons that shall be obvious I don't want my ID known on this matter.

The wife and I had a pretty big row this morning, and it felt like she was being relentless. I have had mental health problems in the past. Asking more than once if she could back down a little, not that you often do when fallen out with a loved one, I lost control of my head, and to some extent control of my body.

My breathing increased, and went in to a state of struggling to breath in and out (needing paper bag)
My fingers became paralised, fully bent over on one hand.
My head was very light.
I couldn't stop crying.
I felt very physically unbalanced for a good 20 minutes.
Apparently my mouth was drooped - I am certain I have not had a stroke.
The left side of my face felt numb.

111 have been called, they wanted to send an ambulance. I refused (via my wife, I was also struggling to get words out) as we are within a short drive of the hospital, and others need these stretched resources far more than me.
I suspect she feared I had had a stroke.
A doctor is due to call us back.

I think I had a (major) panic attack.

Can anyone shed any light on what's just happened to me?
Serious replys only, thanks.

[MrOrange]

I’m not sure but I can add some colour as a family member suffers from GAD and suffers with quite severe panic attacks.

She feels disassociated, an urge to run/flight and a sense of total loss of control over situations. Physically her heart rate increase and has sometimes felt “as if she was dying”.

So, not very similar to what you describe.

/trying to help, as o know how life debilitating panic/anxiety attacks can be.

[myheadhurts]

MrOrange said:

I’m not sure but I can add some colour as a family member suffers from GAD and suffers with quite severe panic attacks.

She feels disassociated, an urge to run/flight and a sense of total loss of control over situations. Physically her heart rate increase and has sometimes felt “as if she was dying”.

So, not very similar to what you describe.

/trying to help, as o know how life debilitating panic/anxiety attacks can be.

Thank you very much. The dying part, whilst I didn't think 'I'm dying', it felt like I was ceasing to function, on both a mental and to some extent physical level. If that makes sense?!
My heart rate was increased to also add

[Mothersruin]

It would be best to go to the hospital. Too much going on. Not a bad idea to be a bit cautious. If there has been an issue, then getting on top of it asap is important.

[Dgr90]

MrOrange said:

She feels disassociated, an urge to run/flight and a sense of total loss of control over situations. Physically her heart rate increase and has sometimes felt “as if she was dying”.

Thats how mine are. Every single time, Im sure that its a heart attack.

OP, whatever it was, it sounds scary, best to get it checked out properly.

[myheadhurts]

It seems my diagnosis may be wrong then, and still waiting on a call back from the hospital. At least that (hopefully!) means they don't deem it too serious.
It did, and still does, scare the hell out of me, the unknown underlying cause I guess.

[meehaja]

When you breath too fast, you take on too much oxygen, which can cause weird "zoning out/ confused" states, will also cause fingers and toes to
Cramp up and curl onwards (ultimately arms will start to curl up as well, it's odd to see) tight chest pain, feeling weak, facial spasms (probably causing facial droop) it can take a day or so to get over a bad one.

GP will probably recommend iapt with possibly beta blockers for the next week or so as they tend to come in clusters and you'll feel unbanlanced for a little while.

[myheadhurts]

meehaja said:

When you breath too fast, you take on too much oxygen, which can cause weird "zoning out/ confused" states, will also cause fingers and toes to
Cramp up and curl onwards (ultimately arms will start to curl up as well, it's odd to see) tight chest pain, feeling weak, facial spasms (probably causing facial droop) it can take a day or so to get over a bad one.

GP will probably recommend iapt with possibly beta blockers for the next week or so as they tend to come in clusters and you'll feel unbanlanced for a little while.

A very insightful post, may explain it somewhat. Thank you.

[techguyone]

MrOrange said:

I’m not sure but I can add some colour as a family member suffers from GAD and suffers with quite severe panic attacks.

She feels disassociated, an urge to run/flight and a sense of total loss of control over situations. Physically her heart rate increase and has sometimes felt “as if she was dying”.

So, not very similar to what you describe.

/trying to help, as o know how life debilitating panic/anxiety attacks can be.

I'd agree with that, from personal experience, especially the 'feel like dying' part it's scary st.

[TTmonkey]

Refused the ambulance with those symptoms? Who the fek put you in charge? The casualty doesn't make these decisions. You're a stupid fool.

My dad did the same. Was ill at 7 pm, felt sick, hot sweats, trouble breathing. Refused to accept any fuss.

My mum found him dead 4 hours later. Life was utterly ruined for those he left behind, for his lack of wanting any fuss. Didn't want to trouble anyone.

Ten years later his wife, my mum, is still racked with guilt for letting him make decisions when HE WAS THE CASUALTY FFS.

[myheadhurts]

TTmonkey said:

Refused the ambulance with those symptoms? Who the fek put you in charge? The casualty doesn't make these decisions. You're a stupid fool.

My dad did the same. Was ill at 7 pm, felt sick, hot sweats, trouble breathing. Refused to accept any fuss.

My mum found him dead 4 hours later. Life was utterly ruined for those he left behind, for his lack of wanting any fuss. Didn't want to trouble anyone.

Ten years later his wife, my mum, is still racked with guilt for letting him make decisions when HE WAS THE CASUALTY FFS.

My logic was that had I been told 'this is serious' my wife could actually get me to the hospital quicker than an ambulance would take to arrive. Maybe I should have, but I didn't deem it, whatever it was, to be life threatening.

I was called back, asked a load of questions, and the lady did seem to think it was a panic attack. She explained, similar to another poster suggested, that when receiving less good quality oxygen the brain directs it to your vitals, hence the finger paralysis.

So all's well that ends well, thankfully, even so it was a scary experience.

Thanks to those who posted.

[paulmakin]

in the absence of acute/significant cardiac or respiratory pathology almost certainly a panic attack.

anxiety/panic arises in a primitive area of the brain whose function is to monitor threat. "primitive" is the key here - it doesn't know what the threat is or what type of physiological response would be proportionate so it kick starts a whole serious of biochemical responses which will prepare the body to manage the threat - this is the "fight or flight" response you will have probably heard of.

the chemistry involved is relatively straightforward but impacts on all body systems. heart rate, resp rate, visual acuity, enhanced hearing, increased muscle tone etc. blood is diverted from extremities to essential organs in the core (hence pins and needles, butterflies), sweating increases etc etc.

once produced, the stimulating effect of the chemicals will last for around 90 mins unless used up somehow - brisk exercise, relaxation etc. some of this process is a bit odd as the continued presence of the chemical in the body can trigger increased production rather than causing a decrease - adrenaline is a good example of this. the receptors detect it and instead of saying "we have adrenaline still, best cut back on secretion" they think "we have adrenaline still, must still be under threat, best produce more" this is one reason why panic attacks can "spiral.

recognition is the key as the earlier you attempt an intervention the more chance of it being effective. there are several known useful behavioural skills that can be learned/taught and usually CBT for longer term management. in extreme anxiety/panic, don't disregard the role of "as required" medication. traditionally benzo's but they have problems of their own and can occasionally make things worse. the sedating anti-histamine Promethazine is often used nowadays and is available without prescription (although not off the shelf)

paul

[Henners]

Go to the docs, get yourself checked out.

Dont trust a load of internet fools like us with your health!

[TTmonkey]

myheadhurts said:

TTmonkey said:

Refused the ambulance with those symptoms? Who the fek put you in charge? The casualty doesn't make these decisions. You're a stupid fool.

My dad did the same. Was ill at 7 pm, felt sick, hot sweats, trouble breathing. Refused to accept any fuss.

My mum found him dead 4 hours later. Life was utterly ruined for those he left behind, for his lack of wanting any fuss. Didn't want to trouble anyone.

Ten years later his wife, my mum, is still racked with guilt for letting him make decisions when HE WAS THE CASUALTY FFS.

My logic was that had I been told 'this is serious' my wife could actually get me to the hospital quicker than an ambulance would take to arrive. Maybe I should have, but I didn't deem it, whatever it was, to be life threatening.

I was called back, asked a load of questions, and the lady did seem to think it was a panic attack. She explained, similar to another poster suggested, that when receiving less good quality oxygen the brain directs it to your vitals, hence the finger paralysis.

So all's well that ends well, thankfully, even so it was a scary experience.

Thanks to those who posted.

You don't always get a warning. But if you do, do not ignore it and don't try to think it through.
You rationalise this incident because you came out the other side. But what if your symptoms had worsened instead of abated?

And yes, take the ambulance ride rather than the lift in the car. Ambulances are usually staged out of local positioning, they need not have been despatched from the hospital. Your wife can't help you while she's driving, she could take you to the wrong facility, she can't administer help during the journey, and she's unlikely able to drop you at the emergency entrance, more likely she'll spend valuable time looking for somewhere to park.

If you have chest pains or severe breathing difficulties, call for help. Pain in the arms, numbness, pain in the jaw, under the chin, one side of the face.... They won't care if it turns out to be indegestion.....!

Edited by TTmonkey on Sunday 22 October 20:59

[myheadhurts]

TTmonkey said:

myheadhurts said:

TTmonkey said:

Refused the ambulance with those symptoms? Who the fek put you in charge? The casualty doesn't make these decisions. You're a stupid fool.

My dad did the same. Was ill at 7 pm, felt sick, hot sweats, trouble breathing. Refused to accept any fuss.

My mum found him dead 4 hours later. Life was utterly ruined for those he left behind, for his lack of wanting any fuss. Didn't want to trouble anyone.

Ten years later his wife, my mum, is still racked with guilt for letting him make decisions when HE WAS THE CASUALTY FFS.

My logic was that had I been told 'this is serious' my wife could actually get me to the hospital quicker than an ambulance would take to arrive. Maybe I should have, but I didn't deem it, whatever it was, to be life threatening.

I was called back, asked a load of questions, and the lady did seem to think it was a panic attack. She explained, similar to another poster suggested, that when receiving less good quality oxygen the brain directs it to your vitals, hence the finger paralysis.

So all's well that ends well, thankfully, even so it was a scary experience.

Thanks to those who posted.

You don't always get a warning. But if you do, do not ignore it and don't try to think it through.
You rationalise this incident because you came out the other side. But what if your symptoms had worsened instead of abated?

And yes, take the ambulance ride rather than the lift in the car. Ambulances are usually staged out of local positioning, they need not have been despatched from the hospital. Your wife can't help you while she's driving, she could take you to the wrong facility, she can't administer help during the journey, and she's unlikely able to drop you at the emergency entrance, more likely she'll spend valuable time looking for somewhere to park.

If you have chest pains or severe breathing difficulties, call for help. Pain in the arms, numbness, pain in the jaw, under the chin, one side of the face.... They won't care if it turns out to be indegestion.....!

Edited by TTmonkey on Sunday 22 October 20:59

Fair points TTM. I have a close family member who's an ex fast response paramedic, and I heard him telling me off when I read your words, a sure sign you're indeed correct! It is probably this family connection to the NHS, knowing the pressures he faced that made me not want to abuse the service, even if this weren't the case.

And I neglected to say, I can understand your frustrations at me not acting on it, due to events with your father.

Edited by myheadhurts on Sunday 22 October 21:31

[Caddyshack]

Sounds like panic to me. When you go in to a panic attack it is the fight or flight creating adrenaline in the body with nowhere to go. You need to learn to breathe deeply and relax your whole body. When you can tell yourself that it is just adrenaline and nothing worse will happen it loses its power over you....take massive breaths out and remind yourself it is uncomfortable but not unbearable....it CANNOT get any worse.

You will never lose control.

Practice big breaths out and relax every muscle in your body...the panic soon dies away.

Edited by Caddyshack on Tuesday 7th November 20:03

Edited by Caddyshack on Tuesday 7th November 20:04

[TTmonkey]

myheadhurts said:

TTmonkey said:

myheadhurts said:

TTmonkey said:

Refused the ambulance with those symptoms? Who the fek put you in charge? The casualty doesn't make these decisions. You're a stupid fool.

My dad did the same. Was ill at 7 pm, felt sick, hot sweats, trouble breathing. Refused to accept any fuss.

My mum found him dead 4 hours later. Life was utterly ruined for those he left behind, for his lack of wanting any fuss. Didn't want to trouble anyone.

Ten years later his wife, my mum, is still racked with guilt for letting him make decisions when HE WAS THE CASUALTY FFS.

My logic was that had I been told 'this is serious' my wife could actually get me to the hospital quicker than an ambulance would take to arrive. Maybe I should have, but I didn't deem it, whatever it was, to be life threatening.

I was called back, asked a load of questions, and the lady did seem to think it was a panic attack. She explained, similar to another poster suggested, that when receiving less good quality oxygen the brain directs it to your vitals, hence the finger paralysis.

So all's well that ends well, thankfully, even so it was a scary experience.

Thanks to those who posted.

You don't always get a warning. But if you do, do not ignore it and don't try to think it through.
You rationalise this incident because you came out the other side. But what if your symptoms had worsened instead of abated?

And yes, take the ambulance ride rather than the lift in the car. Ambulances are usually staged out of local positioning, they need not have been despatched from the hospital. Your wife can't help you while she's driving, she could take you to the wrong facility, she can't administer help during the journey, and she's unlikely able to drop you at the emergency entrance, more likely she'll spend valuable time looking for somewhere to park.

If you have chest pains or severe breathing difficulties, call for help. Pain in the arms, numbness, pain in the jaw, under the chin, one side of the face.... They won't care if it turns out to be indegestion.....!

Edited by TTmonkey on Sunday 22 October 20:59

Fair points TTM. I have a close family member who's an ex fast response paramedic, and I heard him telling me off when I read your words, a sure sign you're indeed correct! It is probably this family connection to the NHS, knowing the pressures he faced that made me not want to abuse the service, even if this weren't the case.

And I neglected to say, I can understand your frustrations at me not acting on it, due to events with your father.

Edited by myheadhurts on Sunday 22 October 21:31

Hindsight is never guaranteed in these circumstances. You look back now and rationalise your decisions as correct ( and no doubt were) but there are occasions when you do get a warning that you shouldn't ignore. If my mum had called me when my dad had his first episode that evening I would have insisted on an ambulance. . As it was she called me around 2am to deliver the heartbreak. The regret she had caused years of depression and self loathing. His life ended but hers was destroyed because he thought it too much inconvenience and embarrassment to call for help..... don't let your loved ones carry the can for a wrong decsion....

Live long and prosper.

[ocd]

Panic attacks are grim. Rapid breatning blows off CO2 which causes changes in blood pH, and this in turn affects the transport of calcium into and out of nerve and muscle cells, hence the tingling/clawing of fingers and toes. SSRIs like seroxat are helpful, in conjunction with CBT/psychotherapy to help deal with the underlying causes. See your GP. The prognosis is usually very good.

[davhill]

You describe a classic panic episode, with associated hyperventilation, altered blood balance, rictus and parasthesia.

Such an episode can spiral but they are often self limiting. An onset of uncontrolled crying is common and the tears (psychic tears) are a response to a highy emotional state. Using a paper bag to control hyperventilation is a known technique but some frown on it now. Controlled 'belly breathing' concentrating on the rise and fall of the abdomen rather than the chest is considered by many to be a superior strategy.

These episodes are unpleasant but one known fact is reassuring. No-one ever died of one.

[techguyone]

unpleasant is an understatement, especially when youre a 7 yr old kid who doesn't even know what a panic attack is. (quite possibly back then the term hadn't even been invented yet)