Dementia: husband abusing wife. Any advice?!
Discussion
I think this is the most appropriate forum but feel free to move.
I'm looking for advice. My dad (late 70's) has a form of dementia but doctors have not called it dementia. It's been getting worse over the years. My mum (mid 70's) is his 24/7 carer.
Everyone, including me, dislikes my dad and everyone feels sorry for my mum. But my mum just shrugs it off as if it's all part of marriage, yet she's the first to complain about him to other people.
He has been mentally and emotionally abusing her for years and is very controlling. I found out today via my sister that he punched her in the face yesterday. He then claims he can't remember doing it and my mum blames herself for getting to close to him! This is the first time in aware of that it's got physical. He is very frail himself and my mum could easily push him over if she wanted to!
I have lasting power of attorney set up for him but not done anything with this yet.
What can I do to get my dad put in a nursing home against his will? Or anywhere against his will? My mum has so far refused to pursue respite care because she knows my dad would hate it and give her a hard time about it. He won't let her go out, even for a few hours.
Half the problem is my mum as she won't help herself despite all the advice people give her so I think it's going to have to be down to me. But where to start?
I'm looking for advice. My dad (late 70's) has a form of dementia but doctors have not called it dementia. It's been getting worse over the years. My mum (mid 70's) is his 24/7 carer.
Everyone, including me, dislikes my dad and everyone feels sorry for my mum. But my mum just shrugs it off as if it's all part of marriage, yet she's the first to complain about him to other people.
He has been mentally and emotionally abusing her for years and is very controlling. I found out today via my sister that he punched her in the face yesterday. He then claims he can't remember doing it and my mum blames herself for getting to close to him! This is the first time in aware of that it's got physical. He is very frail himself and my mum could easily push him over if she wanted to!
I have lasting power of attorney set up for him but not done anything with this yet.
What can I do to get my dad put in a nursing home against his will? Or anywhere against his will? My mum has so far refused to pursue respite care because she knows my dad would hate it and give her a hard time about it. He won't let her go out, even for a few hours.
Half the problem is my mum as she won't help herself despite all the advice people give her so I think it's going to have to be down to me. But where to start?
My partner works in precisely this area. She carries out assessments in the community and in care homes. And actions detention when justified. I don’t envy her job in the slightest.
Detention under the Mental Health Act is an extreme step which the authorities are only remotely likely to support and action. It is VERY precisely bounded by Law.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-fi...
Your Mum and sister need to take the lead and document and report any and all abuse that they’re suffering to the police and their area social services. If there was daily abusive behaviour (caused by mental illness) that the police were being called out for then a bank of evidence could be built. This together with a medical diagnosis of dementia and display of ongoing ‘lack of capacity’ might make a case for intervention by adult social care services.
Is your Mum safe staying with her husband, if the abuse is so bad can’t she move out?
Detention under the Mental Health Act is an extreme step which the authorities are only remotely likely to support and action. It is VERY precisely bounded by Law.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-fi...
Your Mum and sister need to take the lead and document and report any and all abuse that they’re suffering to the police and their area social services. If there was daily abusive behaviour (caused by mental illness) that the police were being called out for then a bank of evidence could be built. This together with a medical diagnosis of dementia and display of ongoing ‘lack of capacity’ might make a case for intervention by adult social care services.
Is your Mum safe staying with her husband, if the abuse is so bad can’t she move out?
Edited by Pilotguy on Sunday 25th November 23:12
I totally agree with Pilotguy, i had to go through similar things a year ago with my wife, although there was no abuse between the two of us, she just got to a point where i coudnt care for her any longer, it was not good for her and it was affecting me, my mental stress was so high, it affected my work, my social life was zero and i could see me breaking down very quickly.
Get social services involved pretty quickly as they will need to be part of the process, your GP will also need to know what is going on if he/she doesnt already know, once you feel its time and its not only you that makes that decision you should put it out to all of the immediate family and get a concensus on what is happeneing is right for your Dad and your Mum. It was one of the worst things i had to do but i had to commit her under section 2 of the Mental Health Act and it was done within about a two hour assessment with SS her local GP and a Psychiarist, given it was so dificult for me and my sons we now know she is in the best place for her, her medication is now sorted out, she is in a really nice care home and she is such a different person now.
Its a real basterd thing to have to do to one of your nearest and dearest but i is in the right interest of the person at the centre, and all others.
Get social services involved pretty quickly as they will need to be part of the process, your GP will also need to know what is going on if he/she doesnt already know, once you feel its time and its not only you that makes that decision you should put it out to all of the immediate family and get a concensus on what is happeneing is right for your Dad and your Mum. It was one of the worst things i had to do but i had to commit her under section 2 of the Mental Health Act and it was done within about a two hour assessment with SS her local GP and a Psychiarist, given it was so dificult for me and my sons we now know she is in the best place for her, her medication is now sorted out, she is in a really nice care home and she is such a different person now.
Its a real basterd thing to have to do to one of your nearest and dearest but i is in the right interest of the person at the centre, and all others.
I wouldn't have thought it was a police matter?
His gp isn't really that interested which can be a problem. No-one will actually say he's got dementia but the term dementia is used to describe a number of conditions that share similar symptoms. And he most definitely does have dementia.
Another problem is that dad won't let mum do anything by herself and she's not strong/brave enough to just tell him straight that she's going out like it or not. This makes speaking to professionals difficult. Even when she takes him to doctor appointments, they're in the room together and she dare not talk about him while he's in the room.
They have an appointment at the memory clinic coming up and I told mum to try and speak to someone by herself. But I have a feeling that won't happen.
How do you help someone who won't help themselves?!
His gp isn't really that interested which can be a problem. No-one will actually say he's got dementia but the term dementia is used to describe a number of conditions that share similar symptoms. And he most definitely does have dementia.
Another problem is that dad won't let mum do anything by herself and she's not strong/brave enough to just tell him straight that she's going out like it or not. This makes speaking to professionals difficult. Even when she takes him to doctor appointments, they're in the room together and she dare not talk about him while he's in the room.
They have an appointment at the memory clinic coming up and I told mum to try and speak to someone by herself. But I have a feeling that won't happen.
How do you help someone who won't help themselves?!
Just read your own first post to answer the question of whether it’s a police matter.
“He has been mentally and emotionally abusing her for years and is very controlling. I found out today via my sister that he punched her in the face yesterday.”
I don’t really know the perfect mechanism of how you reach the diagnosis point, I haven’t been through that myself. I expect something like the Alzheimer’s Society will have support staff who can help.
I hope the Memory Clinic Is a positive thing and your mum is able to get solid advice there if she’s willing to be open with them about what she’s suffering. It’s in her and your Dad’s interest to get help, the GP is the first gatekeeper to this so she needs to persevere with her/your Dad’s surgery.
“He has been mentally and emotionally abusing her for years and is very controlling. I found out today via my sister that he punched her in the face yesterday.”
I don’t really know the perfect mechanism of how you reach the diagnosis point, I haven’t been through that myself. I expect something like the Alzheimer’s Society will have support staff who can help.
I hope the Memory Clinic Is a positive thing and your mum is able to get solid advice there if she’s willing to be open with them about what she’s suffering. It’s in her and your Dad’s interest to get help, the GP is the first gatekeeper to this so she needs to persevere with her/your Dad’s surgery.
The Crown Prosecution Service’s website has clear information on controlling & coercive abuse.
I won’t cut & paste the full text, it’s a fairly grim read.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-...
I won’t cut & paste the full text, it’s a fairly grim read.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-...
xx99xx said:
I wouldn't have thought it was a police matter?
His gp isn't really that interested which can be a problem. No-one will actually say he's got dementia but the term dementia is used to describe a number of conditions that share similar symptoms. And he most definitely does have dementia.
Another problem is that dad won't let mum do anything by herself and she's not strong/brave enough to just tell him straight that she's going out like it or not. This makes speaking to professionals difficult. Even when she takes him to doctor appointments, they're in the room together and she dare not talk about him while he's in the room.
They have an appointment at the memory clinic coming up and I told mum to try and speak to someone by herself. But I have a feeling that won't happen.
How do you help someone who won't help themselves?!
I cannot believe that you say his GP is not interested, this must be sorted out, if as you say he is showing all the signs of Dementia then you need to get that diagnosed before anything, if it is not Dementia and he is being abusive then it could be a Police matter. Either change GPs or ask to see a different one in your surgery, you need to get this sorted out asap. If its difficult for your mum to take him how about you take him, or go to talk to the surgery/doctor prior to taking him, maybe he is in denial of the fact that anything is wrong, if your mum is not strong enough then i think you should take the lead and try to help.His gp isn't really that interested which can be a problem. No-one will actually say he's got dementia but the term dementia is used to describe a number of conditions that share similar symptoms. And he most definitely does have dementia.
Another problem is that dad won't let mum do anything by herself and she's not strong/brave enough to just tell him straight that she's going out like it or not. This makes speaking to professionals difficult. Even when she takes him to doctor appointments, they're in the room together and she dare not talk about him while he's in the room.
They have an appointment at the memory clinic coming up and I told mum to try and speak to someone by herself. But I have a feeling that won't happen.
How do you help someone who won't help themselves?!
People with Dementia dont understand or realise that they have it and many will deny all along that they have it so you need to help them in this matter. The diagnisis for Dementia is quite a drawn-out and long process, it took nearly a year to get the diagosis for my wife but once you have it it then opens lots of doors for help, medication and assistance from many areas and will take alot of the pressure from you and your family.
Good luck
His dementia symptoms, of which he has all the classic ones, are due to hydrocephalus. For this reason they refuse to call it dementia. He has some treatment for the hydrocephalus but it doesn't really work. They just drain the fluid off the brain every few months.
Me taking him anywhere is problematic as I live 3 hours away and also can't stand being in the same room as him. There are plenty of family and friends where they live who can help out but mum is reluctant to ask. The gp even classed him as fit to drive at license renewal time which I find ludicrous as if you could see how limited his movement is and how slow his reactions are, you could see that driving would be dangerous. Plus he is prone to dizziness, confusion, tiredness etc. Luckily we've persuaded him to stop driving but it doesn't stop him renewing his license all the time. He had a few very minor bumps and scrapes in the final few years of driving but he blamed them on other people. We all know they were his fault as some of them involved just him, a parking space and a wall/post/other car.
Mum basically needs to bite the bullet and start standing up for herself. It will lead to more hassle in the short term I'm sure but if he gets used to it it might settle down. She moans about him to everyone she speaks to but then does nothing about it. So that is my task, trying to get mum to help herself.
Me taking him anywhere is problematic as I live 3 hours away and also can't stand being in the same room as him. There are plenty of family and friends where they live who can help out but mum is reluctant to ask. The gp even classed him as fit to drive at license renewal time which I find ludicrous as if you could see how limited his movement is and how slow his reactions are, you could see that driving would be dangerous. Plus he is prone to dizziness, confusion, tiredness etc. Luckily we've persuaded him to stop driving but it doesn't stop him renewing his license all the time. He had a few very minor bumps and scrapes in the final few years of driving but he blamed them on other people. We all know they were his fault as some of them involved just him, a parking space and a wall/post/other car.
Mum basically needs to bite the bullet and start standing up for herself. It will lead to more hassle in the short term I'm sure but if he gets used to it it might settle down. She moans about him to everyone she speaks to but then does nothing about it. So that is my task, trying to get mum to help herself.
Please take this very seriously whatever he is suffering from, as should your mother, his level of control and comprehension will vary. It may be worth speaking to a specialist geriatrician or social worker as previous behaviors can be exacibated as things progress. Her position may well become unsafe and your dad may be unaware of what he is doing. I say this as someone close was in the same position as your dad, and was in a secure nursing home environment and unfortunately the worst did happen, not something anyone should go through both for all involved personally and legally.
phumy said:
I totally agree with Pilotguy, i had to go through similar things a year ago with my wife, although there was no abuse between the two of us, she just got to a point where i coudnt care for her any longer, it was not good for her and it was affecting me, my mental stress was so high, it affected my work, my social life was zero and i could see me breaking down very quickly.
Get social services involved pretty quickly as they will need to be part of the process, your GP will also need to know what is going on if he/she doesnt already know, once you feel its time and its not only you that makes that decision you should put it out to all of the immediate family and get a concensus on what is happeneing is right for your Dad and your Mum. It was one of the worst things i had to do but i had to commit her under section 2 of the Mental Health Act and it was done within about a two hour assessment with SS her local GP and a Psychiarist, given it was so dificult for me and my sons we now know she is in the best place for her, her medication is now sorted out, she is in a really nice care home and she is such a different person now.
Its a real basterd thing to have to do to one of your nearest and dearest but i is in the right interest of the person at the centre, and all others.
Wow this must be very hard indeed. Can i ask how old your wife was when this started as you seem very young in your writing and how you approached it Get social services involved pretty quickly as they will need to be part of the process, your GP will also need to know what is going on if he/she doesnt already know, once you feel its time and its not only you that makes that decision you should put it out to all of the immediate family and get a concensus on what is happeneing is right for your Dad and your Mum. It was one of the worst things i had to do but i had to commit her under section 2 of the Mental Health Act and it was done within about a two hour assessment with SS her local GP and a Psychiarist, given it was so dificult for me and my sons we now know she is in the best place for her, her medication is now sorted out, she is in a really nice care home and she is such a different person now.
Its a real basterd thing to have to do to one of your nearest and dearest but i is in the right interest of the person at the centre, and all others.
An awful situation for everyone involved.
I'm wondering if maybe it's not being classed as dementia if he's aware of what's happening, in which case, perhaps he's afraid of where this is going and what's wrong with him. All of which is understandable, but obviously still not acceptable for him to behave like this.
However, if you have LPA over his health and welfare, I think the best course of action would be to make an appointment to see his GP on your own to explain the situation clearly and make it clear that things can't stay as they are as your Mum's at risk of serious injury.
I realise that you're 3 hours away. If it were me, I'd be taking a couple of days off work to get it sorted out once and for all. Tell the family what you're intending to do and ask for their support in moving things forward and supporting your Mum (and Dad) through this.
I'm wondering if maybe it's not being classed as dementia if he's aware of what's happening, in which case, perhaps he's afraid of where this is going and what's wrong with him. All of which is understandable, but obviously still not acceptable for him to behave like this.
However, if you have LPA over his health and welfare, I think the best course of action would be to make an appointment to see his GP on your own to explain the situation clearly and make it clear that things can't stay as they are as your Mum's at risk of serious injury.
I realise that you're 3 hours away. If it were me, I'd be taking a couple of days off work to get it sorted out once and for all. Tell the family what you're intending to do and ask for their support in moving things forward and supporting your Mum (and Dad) through this.
FocusRS3 said:
phumy said:
I totally agree with Pilotguy, i had to go through similar things a year ago with my wife, although there was no abuse between the two of us, she just got to a point where i coudnt care for her any longer, it was not good for her and it was affecting me, my mental stress was so high, it affected my work, my social life was zero and i could see me breaking down very quickly.
Get social services involved pretty quickly as they will need to be part of the process, your GP will also need to know what is going on if he/she doesnt already know, once you feel its time and its not only you that makes that decision you should put it out to all of the immediate family and get a concensus on what is happeneing is right for your Dad and your Mum. It was one of the worst things i had to do but i had to commit her under section 2 of the Mental Health Act and it was done within about a two hour assessment with SS her local GP and a Psychiarist, given it was so dificult for me and my sons we now know she is in the best place for her, her medication is now sorted out, she is in a really nice care home and she is such a different person now.
Its a real basterd thing to have to do to one of your nearest and dearest but i is in the right interest of the person at the centre, and all others.
Wow this must be very hard indeed. Can i ask how old your wife was when this started as you seem very young in your writing and how you approached it Get social services involved pretty quickly as they will need to be part of the process, your GP will also need to know what is going on if he/she doesnt already know, once you feel its time and its not only you that makes that decision you should put it out to all of the immediate family and get a concensus on what is happeneing is right for your Dad and your Mum. It was one of the worst things i had to do but i had to commit her under section 2 of the Mental Health Act and it was done within about a two hour assessment with SS her local GP and a Psychiarist, given it was so dificult for me and my sons we now know she is in the best place for her, her medication is now sorted out, she is in a really nice care home and she is such a different person now.
Its a real basterd thing to have to do to one of your nearest and dearest but i is in the right interest of the person at the centre, and all others.
phumy said:
It has been one of the toughest emotional things my three sons and I have had to endure and are still going through, she was diagnosed at age 60, which was totally unfair but thats the cards we got dealt and had to deal with it. It has been a really rough roller coaster ride, in fact its not roller coaster as in one of those there are highs as well as lows, this has been one big low. I would love to write a book on it and how to live with it but it would just bring back so many bad memories, for my part anyway, I might try one day but it could be a long way off. I have lost a wife and lover and my sons have lost a wonderful mum, who loved them more than anything else (like any mum really i suppose) but im sure you know what i mean. Anyway i dont want to detract from the OPs thread. He needs all the right help and assistance that he can get right now, theres lots of good and bad help available and he just needs some steerage in the right direction.
I cant begin to imagine how tough that must have been and continues to be, i really cant.Well said about pushing this thread on to help the OP
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