Toddler monster movie death throe sleep
Discussion
Our toddler (2 years 3 months) used to fall asleep pretty much straight away at 8pm after a couple of stories, but now can’t settle and writhes around like a dying monster for anything up to 10pm before finally passing out. Bends legs, rolls around, arms up in the air, tries a headstand, slapping the mattress, whispering words he knows (which is creepy-as when you’re sitting on the floor next to him!), and seems to keep holding his breath in for a second before exhaling quickly as if he’s concentrating on something. As soon as his breathing goes smooth and deep I know he’s on his way to sleep.
In addition, while he was fine in a normal bed for a month, he now realises how easy it is to get out, so if we leave the room he comes to find us, and if we lead him back to bed he writhes around etc etc, it’s like having a choose your own adventure book with only two pages, each of which sends you to the other page.
This happens whether he’s been at nursery all day or with us at the weekend, and regardless of what nap he’s had or what time he woke up in the morning.
Any ideas? Already cut his nap from 90 minutes to 60 minutes, is it worth trying to reduce it further?
In addition, while he was fine in a normal bed for a month, he now realises how easy it is to get out, so if we leave the room he comes to find us, and if we lead him back to bed he writhes around etc etc, it’s like having a choose your own adventure book with only two pages, each of which sends you to the other page.
This happens whether he’s been at nursery all day or with us at the weekend, and regardless of what nap he’s had or what time he woke up in the morning.
Any ideas? Already cut his nap from 90 minutes to 60 minutes, is it worth trying to reduce it further?
Tough one this, but in the end this an attention seeking behavior, and I am afraid to say you are indulging it.
You are in for a few tough nights.
You need a clear plan, and don’t break whatever happens !
Put to bed, read story & settle them. Then out the room, door closed.
1st time they get up, speak tell them to go back to bed, lead them there put back to bed settler them then leave, door closed.
After that, no speaking just lead them back to bed - put them in. Again and again, don’t say a word, no reprimand, no telling of, no shouting, no getting angry.
You can break the habit, they want your attention, don’t be in the room with them.
It’s interesting, I am guessing they go off for the nap pretty easily. With none of this behavior. I would be tempted to skip a few naps and see what happens.
Come to my house two nights ago after 90 minutes of leading him back to bed and tell me I’m indulging his behaviour, two weeks of this now. 
In fact I don’t lead him back to bed, I make him crawl back into bed, and he still thinks it’s worthwhile him getting back out again.
Has never napped easily in the day with us, except in the buggy or the car, bedtimes have been fine for the past year. Goes down easily enough at nursery but then that’s the peer pressure of a few dozen other kids doing the same thing.
Skipped naps on weekends and no difference. Hoping it’s a phase that will pass, that’s been the case with other sleep problems we’ve had.
In fact I don’t lead him back to bed, I make him crawl back into bed, and he still thinks it’s worthwhile him getting back out again.Has never napped easily in the day with us, except in the buggy or the car, bedtimes have been fine for the past year. Goes down easily enough at nursery but then that’s the peer pressure of a few dozen other kids doing the same thing.
Skipped naps on weekends and no difference. Hoping it’s a phase that will pass, that’s been the case with other sleep problems we’ve had.
Matt-il77s said:
Any chance he has threadworms? They specifically come out at night and cause extreme bum itching hence not settling and throwing himself around. Very common at that age especially going to nursery.
Interesting idea but unlikely, us or the nursery would have spotted them in nappies, and once he's asleep he's fine. No signs of itching.deckster said:
Stairgate on the bedroom doorway. He'll bash on it and wail for a while but will give up soon enough.
We do actually have a spare Stargate so might try this. I've held the door closed while he whinges behind it and that can help break the cycle, but only when he's properly upset, and that takes a few attempts. Maybe it's just finding a way to get to that stage faster.edit - obvious autocorrect is obvious but I've left it in because it's so poetic.
Edit edit - that's only part of the problem though, when he's in his bed it's like he's not ready to settle, but there's no way he's staying up til 10pm!
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 26th September 10:58
Bedtimes can be a nightmare but there are a few basic rules that help massively. For context, my parents fostered over 100 children, mainly under 5s, when I was growing up and my mum could have quite easily written the manual on how to get kids to go to sleep. Some of it rubbed off
The first basic rule is:- bedtimes are consistent. There is a routine and a consistent bedtime, every day. For two year-olds, bath-book-bed is the classic as it will relax them and get them in the right frame of mind. Playing with toys or watching TV is disastrous, as that just gets them excited. As said, this should always be at the same time and, ideally, at a time that gives you your evening to relax!
The second is that once they're in bed, they're in bed. Unless there's actually something wrong, which is generally pretty easy to tell, then nothing more than a very quick check, leading them back to bed, and tucking them in with a quick kiss is needed. They need to know that you're there, but also that you're not going to give them any real attention. I hate the phrase "controlled crying" but the theory is sound - if they learn that they aren't going to get the attention, then they will soon give up.
There are of course additional techniques depending on the actual child - making sure they're tired at bedtime, so perhaps skipping the afternoon nap for toddlers, not drinking too much in the hour or so before bed so the bladder isn't too full - but the above should get most toddler's bedtime habits nailed within a week or so.
The first basic rule is:- bedtimes are consistent. There is a routine and a consistent bedtime, every day. For two year-olds, bath-book-bed is the classic as it will relax them and get them in the right frame of mind. Playing with toys or watching TV is disastrous, as that just gets them excited. As said, this should always be at the same time and, ideally, at a time that gives you your evening to relax!
The second is that once they're in bed, they're in bed. Unless there's actually something wrong, which is generally pretty easy to tell, then nothing more than a very quick check, leading them back to bed, and tucking them in with a quick kiss is needed. They need to know that you're there, but also that you're not going to give them any real attention. I hate the phrase "controlled crying" but the theory is sound - if they learn that they aren't going to get the attention, then they will soon give up.
There are of course additional techniques depending on the actual child - making sure they're tired at bedtime, so perhaps skipping the afternoon nap for toddlers, not drinking too much in the hour or so before bed so the bladder isn't too full - but the above should get most toddler's bedtime habits nailed within a week or so.
deckster said:
Bedtimes can be a nightmare but there are a few basic rules that help massively. For context, my parents fostered over 100 children, mainly under 5s, when I was growing up and my mum could have quite easily written the manual on how to get kids to go to sleep. Some of it rubbed off
The first basic rule is:- bedtimes are consistent. There is a routine and a consistent bedtime, every day. For two year-olds, bath-book-bed is the classic as it will relax them and get them in the right frame of mind. Playing with toys or watching TV is disastrous, as that just gets them excited. As said, this should always be at the same time and, ideally, at a time that gives you your evening to relax!
The second is that once they're in bed, they're in bed. Unless there's actually something wrong, which is generally pretty easy to tell, then nothing more than a very quick check, leading them back to bed, and tucking them in with a quick kiss is needed. They need to know that you're there, but also that you're not going to give them any real attention. I hate the phrase "controlled crying" but the theory is sound - if they learn that they aren't going to get the attention, then they will soon give up.
There are of course additional techniques depending on the actual child - making sure they're tired at bedtime, so perhaps skipping the afternoon nap for toddlers, not drinking too much in the hour or so before bed so the bladder isn't too full - but the above should get most toddler's bedtime habits nailed within a week or so.
I've never seen so much common sense in such a small space. You should write a book. There is something about your Mum's experience and your ability to distil and communicate itThe first basic rule is:- bedtimes are consistent. There is a routine and a consistent bedtime, every day. For two year-olds, bath-book-bed is the classic as it will relax them and get them in the right frame of mind. Playing with toys or watching TV is disastrous, as that just gets them excited. As said, this should always be at the same time and, ideally, at a time that gives you your evening to relax!
The second is that once they're in bed, they're in bed. Unless there's actually something wrong, which is generally pretty easy to tell, then nothing more than a very quick check, leading them back to bed, and tucking them in with a quick kiss is needed. They need to know that you're there, but also that you're not going to give them any real attention. I hate the phrase "controlled crying" but the theory is sound - if they learn that they aren't going to get the attention, then they will soon give up.
There are of course additional techniques depending on the actual child - making sure they're tired at bedtime, so perhaps skipping the afternoon nap for toddlers, not drinking too much in the hour or so before bed so the bladder isn't too full - but the above should get most toddler's bedtime habits nailed within a week or so.
deckster said:
Stairgate on the bedroom doorway. He'll bash on it and wail for a while but will give up soon enough.
We did this. On one occasion we returned to find him asleep with his face up against the bars of the stair gate.
Another time, we were trying the ‘rapid return’ (iirc) technique and he had projectile vomited a perfect arc up the wall next to his bed.
I feel for you OP. It’s not easy but it won’t last forever.
Okay, so because Mrs Hill was out, and for the benefit of the jury, I kept a tally:
Dinner at 5.30, a couple of episodes of cartoons at 6.00 with glass of milk, bath at 6.30 with glass of milk, running around in pyjamas between 7.00 and 7.15, slowing down for some stories after that, getting sleepy and yawning and rubbing eyes, and in bed for 7.44. I left the room.
He got out of bed and I made him get back into bed at 7.45, 7.46, 7.47, 7.49, 7.50, 7.52, 7.53, 7.54, 7.55, 7.56, 7.57, 7.58, 8.01, 8.02 and 8.03.
From then on I waited until he tried to open the door to make him get back into bed, and that was 8.06, 8.07, 8.09 and 8.10.
After that I started to hold the door closed, when the whinging started, then proper crying at 8.12, back into bed with a little pat on the shoulder, and again at 8.13, 8.14, 8.15 where he stayed in bed crying for a minute before getting out then back in bed at 8.17.
8.18 asked for water, which he got, back in bed, 8.19 crying on the floor, 8.20 freaking out for water which he got, 8.21 bed, 8.22 water, 8.25 crying behind the door until 8.29 (the longest I've left him), back in bed, crying for water, not given, 8.32 some short periods of silence, 8.35 silence.
8.40-8.47 dying screams of the last embers of the day.
So we just need to break him earlier, up until about quarter past 8 it was all a game to him. The water was genuine but he didn't need it after the first couple of times. We were fine with letting him cry in his cot, but don't really want him passing out on the floor, as he'd either be uncomfortable or just wake up in the night again.
He's no problem at all in the day so this is new to us, but also realise that many other people have had it far worse than us up to this point.
Dinner at 5.30, a couple of episodes of cartoons at 6.00 with glass of milk, bath at 6.30 with glass of milk, running around in pyjamas between 7.00 and 7.15, slowing down for some stories after that, getting sleepy and yawning and rubbing eyes, and in bed for 7.44. I left the room.
He got out of bed and I made him get back into bed at 7.45, 7.46, 7.47, 7.49, 7.50, 7.52, 7.53, 7.54, 7.55, 7.56, 7.57, 7.58, 8.01, 8.02 and 8.03.
From then on I waited until he tried to open the door to make him get back into bed, and that was 8.06, 8.07, 8.09 and 8.10.
After that I started to hold the door closed, when the whinging started, then proper crying at 8.12, back into bed with a little pat on the shoulder, and again at 8.13, 8.14, 8.15 where he stayed in bed crying for a minute before getting out then back in bed at 8.17.
8.18 asked for water, which he got, back in bed, 8.19 crying on the floor, 8.20 freaking out for water which he got, 8.21 bed, 8.22 water, 8.25 crying behind the door until 8.29 (the longest I've left him), back in bed, crying for water, not given, 8.32 some short periods of silence, 8.35 silence.
8.40-8.47 dying screams of the last embers of the day.
So we just need to break him earlier, up until about quarter past 8 it was all a game to him. The water was genuine but he didn't need it after the first couple of times. We were fine with letting him cry in his cot, but don't really want him passing out on the floor, as he'd either be uncomfortable or just wake up in the night again.
He's no problem at all in the day so this is new to us, but also realise that many other people have had it far worse than us up to this point.
ScotHill said:
Dinner at 5.30, a couple of episodes of cartoons at 6.00 with glass of milk, bath at 6.30 with glass of milk, running around in pyjamas between 7.00 and 7.15, slowing down for some stories after that, getting sleepy and yawning and rubbing eyes, and in bed for 7.44. I left the room.
Rather than ‘things you do wrong’ I’ll go with ‘things I do differently’.I wouldn’t dream of turning the tv on after dinner. I’d go for 10 minutes before dinner (gives you time to dish up!) then when dinner starts the tv’s off for the night. Mine also don’t have any milk after dinner.
Our general routine is:
5:30 dinner
6pm tidy lounge/playroom.
6:15 bath, brush hair/teeth.
6:45 stories snuggled together
7:15 last story in their beds
7:30 lights off, I stay and tell them a made up story. (Normally a hedgehog version of our day)
7:35 last kiss and either leave room, or stay if they’re slightly unsettled. Nearly always asleep by 7:45.
We had this. Don’t engage, just put them straight back in bed. After a few nights they get bored. That really is it. Making him crawl back or whatever turns it into a game. Just put him back in without looking at him, talking, smiling or anything.
After a few nights he’ll be bored of getting out of bed and you’ll be fine. Any deviation from this and you’ll be in for a long agonising wait for a few years.
When you put him down then leave him to it. Staying in there til 10 is pointless. If he is making noise etc just leave him to it. Again he’ll get bored and stop doing it.
Plus 8 is really late for a toddler. Why don’t you try 7? Once he’s in the routine you’re sorted for nights with your mates/missus from 7 onwards, if things go wrong and you have trouble for a bit by the time it’s sorted it’s still early enough for you to have an evening and the kid is getting enough kip.
Good luck stay strong.
After a few nights he’ll be bored of getting out of bed and you’ll be fine. Any deviation from this and you’ll be in for a long agonising wait for a few years.
When you put him down then leave him to it. Staying in there til 10 is pointless. If he is making noise etc just leave him to it. Again he’ll get bored and stop doing it.
Plus 8 is really late for a toddler. Why don’t you try 7? Once he’s in the routine you’re sorted for nights with your mates/missus from 7 onwards, if things go wrong and you have trouble for a bit by the time it’s sorted it’s still early enough for you to have an evening and the kid is getting enough kip.
Good luck stay strong.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff