Discussion
Being of a certain age, we watch grandad and grannma die then our parents. Isn't it absolutely awful? Anyone managed to keep a parent at home right to the end rather then rely the NHS or a nursing home? Have to say the NHS is good for this, supplying hospital beds at home and ample supplies of morpheine
Depends on the illness and the physical/mental state. MrsC's family kept the MiL at home for 2 years of a slow descent into Alzheimers and bowel cancer; she only went into a hospital about a week before she died. In fact due to the Alzheimers she never knew she had cancer. The toll it took on a father and two daughters should not be underestimated, and 2 years later the repercussions are still rumbling heavily. MrsC and her sister, who were extremely close before, now don't speak at all (at the SiL's behest I might add).
I'd never recommend it now, not where any degree of practical care is required.
But that's based on my own experiences and obviously it will be different in everyone's.
I'd never recommend it now, not where any degree of practical care is required.
But that's based on my own experiences and obviously it will be different in everyone's.
My nan spent her final weeks at my aunts, she died there, she always said she didn't want to go into hospital as in her mind, at her age (93) once there, you only left in a box.
My mum wanted to bring her partner home to spend his final days with her, she had a bed supplied and all relevant medicines and associated gubbins, the lounge was set up to have him and she even managed to convince me to help cover a few night shifts (I didn't want to but couldn't say no), in the end he went straight from hospital to a hospice. I'm not convinced she would have coped and I was relieved for her that he didn't make it there.
My mum wanted to bring her partner home to spend his final days with her, she had a bed supplied and all relevant medicines and associated gubbins, the lounge was set up to have him and she even managed to convince me to help cover a few night shifts (I didn't want to but couldn't say no), in the end he went straight from hospital to a hospice. I'm not convinced she would have coped and I was relieved for her that he didn't make it there.
It's a tricky one.
We kept one of my grandparents at home until very nearly the end. My mother became a carer to all intents and purposes.
I remember there being a lot of pee and poo being cleared up; many ambulances called.
My parents implored me and my brother never to try something similar.
I think we should value and protect our old people, but caring for and supporting them can be harrowing and time consuming. Perhaps if the family is sufficiently flush that a professional carer can be hired it would be more viable.
We kept one of my grandparents at home until very nearly the end. My mother became a carer to all intents and purposes.
I remember there being a lot of pee and poo being cleared up; many ambulances called.
My parents implored me and my brother never to try something similar.
I think we should value and protect our old people, but caring for and supporting them can be harrowing and time consuming. Perhaps if the family is sufficiently flush that a professional carer can be hired it would be more viable.
It is a difficult one and one I unfortunately had to go through recently.
My mum was a fiercely independent woman and was intent on spending her last few weeks at home but her overriding priorities were dignity, comfort and to be as pain free as possible. I don’t think you can really achieve this at home if you’re dieing from something a little nasty. You tend to lose dignity when you’re having to wipe your mum’s arse and pain can only be controlled by a nurse who’s always an hour or two away.
For the final few weeks she was in a hospice and the care was second to none. Help on tap, no messing with pain killers like morphine, you want more - you get it straight away. Nurse and care staff kick you out when she needs to be cleaned or taken to the toilet and there’s even a drinks trolley that does the rounds if you want a nightcap.
Parents are parents so they were as much concerned about how we were coping as they were dealing with their illness and a hospice gives great piece of mind to all concerned plus there’s great help for family members like counselling and practical help with day to day stuff.
I wouldn’t change a thing if I had to go through it all again.
My mum was a fiercely independent woman and was intent on spending her last few weeks at home but her overriding priorities were dignity, comfort and to be as pain free as possible. I don’t think you can really achieve this at home if you’re dieing from something a little nasty. You tend to lose dignity when you’re having to wipe your mum’s arse and pain can only be controlled by a nurse who’s always an hour or two away.
For the final few weeks she was in a hospice and the care was second to none. Help on tap, no messing with pain killers like morphine, you want more - you get it straight away. Nurse and care staff kick you out when she needs to be cleaned or taken to the toilet and there’s even a drinks trolley that does the rounds if you want a nightcap.
Parents are parents so they were as much concerned about how we were coping as they were dealing with their illness and a hospice gives great piece of mind to all concerned plus there’s great help for family members like counselling and practical help with day to day stuff.
I wouldn’t change a thing if I had to go through it all again.
My Father died at home with my Mother (an ex nurse) doing much of the caring. MacMillan nurses were a terrific help as well as was her GP. It was exhausting for her at 70+ but also rewarding in that he did die in his own bed rather than a hospital which he hated. His end was relatively undramatic though, a steady decline of failing organs. Drinking and smoking to a massive excess up to about 60 isn't a good plan.
People will see more and more end of life care happening at home. It's the current direction for the NHS and social care.
My wifes grandmother stayed at home completely throughout her decent into dementia and her body shutting down ... It's a long drawn out process (this was about 3yes) and not a pleasant one to witness in the environment that holds so many happy times ... This jars with people and (I believe) goes some way to the explain the damage to relationships as others have noted above.
My wifes grandmother stayed at home completely throughout her decent into dementia and her body shutting down ... It's a long drawn out process (this was about 3yes) and not a pleasant one to witness in the environment that holds so many happy times ... This jars with people and (I believe) goes some way to the explain the damage to relationships as others have noted above.
My uncle was a widower with no children. He spent his last two or three weeks in hospital in full knowledge of the fact he was going to die. He asked if he could go home. The hospital weren't keen on medical grounds and my father wasn't keen because of potential financial implications if my uncle lived for any length of time and needed care at home. So he stayed in hospital knowing he was going to die there when he would have preferred to die in his favourite chair in front of the telly. He permitted himself a rueful, "I'm disappointed," at the outcome. Then my father became ill, spent time in hospital, then hospice, then back to hospital when he had hadn't died in the hospice but had out stayed his welcome. He asked if he could go home to die. Déjà Vu. The hospital weren't keen on medical grounds and my mother wasn't keen for 101 different reasons being careful not to say any of the reasons were financial. And that's what it feels like, dad, when you want to go home to die and your plans are thwarted. In August 2018 my mother was given six weeks to live. She had one round of radiation therapy over three weeks and lived for seven months. She wanted to die at home and - crucially - didn't stay in hospital which avoided the issue of them not wanting to be responsible if they let her go home. She had a carer once a day, then twice a day, then three times a day. My brother and I did week on, week off, giving companion care* and a local government department installed a hospital bed for her. The District Nurse came weekly, then daily. Her GP came frequently, then more frequently, then daily. Then she died. Increasing levels of painkillers is the way to go I reckon. That's what she had. She was more or less lucid until eight days before she went but spent her last week unconscious. Top marks to the various care organisations for bringing some dignity and comfort to a very undignified part of her life. The lesson, I believe, is to hold out living at home for as long as possible.
*mum and dad retired to Devon. It was a long way away but a great idea at the time. It is a serious consideration if you hope to provide support in your parents' old age.
*mum and dad retired to Devon. It was a long way away but a great idea at the time. It is a serious consideration if you hope to provide support in your parents' old age.
I understand someone wanting to die at home but it can be a very selfish act and place a horrific burden on a partner. People should die where they can receive the best care and that is unlikely to be at home looked after by an elderly spouse. It may be possible for a while but in my experience the last couple of weeks can be particularly hellish and people are much better off in a hospice. In many cases, in the last week or so, the dying person doesn't have a scooby where they are, but that doesn't relieve the stress and strain on carers.
That hospices are not state funded was a huge shock to me and something that should be rectified. It topped the revelation that air ambulances are also charities.
That hospices are not state funded was a huge shock to me and something that should be rectified. It topped the revelation that air ambulances are also charities.
Taylor James said:
I understand someone wanting to die at home but it can be a very selfish act and place a horrific burden on a partner. People should die where they can receive the best care and that is unlikely to be at home looked after by an elderly spouse. It may be possible for a while but in my experience the last couple of weeks can be particularly hellish and people are much better off in a hospice. In many cases, in the last week or so, the dying person doesn't have a scooby where they are, but that doesn't relieve the stress and strain on carers.
That hospices are not state funded was a huge shock to me and something that should be rectified. It topped the revelation that air ambulances are also charities.
I for one am OK with hospices being a charity, the state should have (other than standards) no involvement. There is a good reason Hospitals are frightening places (and totally inappropriate) for those with a need for terminal care.That hospices are not state funded was a huge shock to me and something that should be rectified. It topped the revelation that air ambulances are also charities.
Dont like rolls said:
Taylor James said:
I understand someone wanting to die at home but it can be a very selfish act and place a horrific burden on a partner. People should die where they can receive the best care and that is unlikely to be at home looked after by an elderly spouse. It may be possible for a while but in my experience the last couple of weeks can be particularly hellish and people are much better off in a hospice. In many cases, in the last week or so, the dying person doesn't have a scooby where they are, but that doesn't relieve the stress and strain on carers.
That hospices are not state funded was a huge shock to me and something that should be rectified. It topped the revelation that air ambulances are also charities.
I for one am OK with hospices being a charity, the state should have (other than standards) no involvement. There is a good reason Hospitals are frightening places (and totally inappropriate) for those with a need for terminal care.That hospices are not state funded was a huge shock to me and something that should be rectified. It topped the revelation that air ambulances are also charities.
I am currently sitting in hospital waiting for my Father to come back from a scan. He has necrosis on the foot and just survived cancer. The last few weeks he has spent at home with a carer coming twice a day and me doing the rest of it. It has been challenging.
Depending on the result of this test he will probably have a “almost fatal” bypass operation tomorrow and if that fatality doesn’t happen then we will see. He is severely independent but this is becoming increasingly difficult as the care will almost certainly need to be a constant 24 hours with pain medication.
Sitting in this ward with lots of old people who have no hope of recovery and are just being kept alive by machines and morphine to make them out of it I absolutely do not want this for me. If I have no chance of recovery and have no quality of life I wish to be let go peacefully probably in hospital or wherever is most convenient for my children to whatever happens next. Probably an eternity of nothingness but that’s another thread :-)
Depending on the result of this test he will probably have a “almost fatal” bypass operation tomorrow and if that fatality doesn’t happen then we will see. He is severely independent but this is becoming increasingly difficult as the care will almost certainly need to be a constant 24 hours with pain medication.
Sitting in this ward with lots of old people who have no hope of recovery and are just being kept alive by machines and morphine to make them out of it I absolutely do not want this for me. If I have no chance of recovery and have no quality of life I wish to be let go peacefully probably in hospital or wherever is most convenient for my children to whatever happens next. Probably an eternity of nothingness but that’s another thread :-)
Taylor James said:
I am suggesting hospices are state funded, not replaced by hospitals.
State funded is/will be a take over with all the s
t that only the NHS can inject into the system. Other than standards there is a very good reason the NHS is NOT the appropriate body to provide/control/fund (fully) hospice care. They are way beyond s
t at it. Hospice care/end of life care has no place within an organization such as the NHS which is about healing. Macmillan Nurses are very very different in skills but also in the important attitude differences of the care needed.
Just one example, pain relief.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Monday 25th November 11:35
Dont like rolls said:
Taylor James said:
I am suggesting hospices are state funded, not replaced by hospitals.
State funded is/will be a take over with all the st that only the NHS can inject into the system. Other than standards there is a very good reason the NHS is NOT the appropriate body to provide/control/fund (fully) hospice care. They are way beyond s
t at it. Hospice care/end of life care has no place within an organization such as the NHS which is about healing. Macmillan Nurses are very very different in skills but also in the important attitude differences of the care needed.
Just one example, pain relief.
Edited by Dont like rolls on Monday 25th November 11:35
Taylor James said:
That's your opinion. I disagree with it but I'm not interesting in discussing it with you if you can't express yourself clearly and without all the swearing. It's a topic that deserves sensitivity and calm heads.
Well there you go. Emotions are what happens when faced with the attitude that a massive organisation like the NHS has and then gets their careless hands on something like the Hospice movement.Edited by Dont like rolls on Monday 25th November 13:24
Taylor James said:
I am suggesting hospices are state funded, not replaced by hospitals.
The reason they don't is the same that applies to Air Ambulances.The NHS is a humungous entity that has a lot to do for what will always be a limited amount of money. It is able to do this by providing a good level of service across all its functions but rarely able to do more than that - despite what the public 'demand' and the politicians 'promise'.
The NHS provides very good end-of-life care either in a hospital or via home support. For those that have had cause to use them, hospices (and other similar support organisations) are invaluable but because they add to the service provided by the NHS rather than replace them, including them within the NHS would place pressure elsewhere and when the economy takes a dive as it is prone to do every now and then, it would be Hospices and Air Ambulances that would be first in the firing line for money saving cuts.
Keeping them outside of the NHS means that they are protected from the vagaries of government policy and government funding.
I think this is the right approach. The exception being Children's hospices.
StevieBee said:
Taylor James said:
I am suggesting hospices are state funded, not replaced by hospitals.
The reason they don't is the same that applies to Air Ambulances.The NHS is a humungous entity that has a lot to do for what will always be a limited amount of money. It is able to do this by providing a good level of service across all its functions but rarely able to do more than that - despite what the public 'demand' and the politicians 'promise'.
The NHS provides very good end-of-life care either in a hospital or via home support. For those that have had cause to use them, hospices (and other similar support organisations) are invaluable but because they add to the service provided by the NHS rather than replace them, including them within the NHS would place pressure elsewhere and when the economy takes a dive as it is prone to do every now and then, it would be Hospices and Air Ambulances that would be first in the firing line for money saving cuts.
Keeping them outside of the NHS means that they are protected from the vagaries of government policy and government funding.
I think this is the right approach. The exception being Children's hospices.
My Father suffered a cerebral haemorrhage at just 61 in 1975 and was put into an induced coma for 4/5 days, but still ended up with no use of his right limbs - he couldn't even stand up unaided.
After a couple of weeks in the ICU he got moved to another NHS facility, but my mother didn't care for it so she moved him to a private care home that was worse, but once she did that the NHS washed their hands of him.
The fees were high, but other than dumping him homeless on the street the NHS were never going to even consider doing anything!
It's lucky that his private pension and contributions from his Industry Institute just about made the private option feasible.
After more than 12 years of this misery (mostly for him) he was in a very bad way when I got a call from Kings College Hospital and I was sitting holding his hand when he passed away.
In so many situations keeping out of the NHS isn't an option because they'll be determined to keep you out anyway, as they are having to fund pointless sh*t like gastric bands for lardarses, aesthetic treatment for those under-endowed and IVF for those who can't perform.
Sorry for what seems like a rant, but now my Mother is in a private residential care home and it just feels like we're going through the same sh*t again.
And to be fair what is so different about a children's hospice? My Father was in a hospice for over a decade - who should decide which is more meaningful?
Edited by Mr Tidy on Tuesday 26th November 01:46
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