Care for the elderly during CV19
Discussion
Had a bit of a 'mare of a day, my Sister got in touch to say my Nan thought today was a good day to climb on her greenhouse roof to do some maintenance leaving my Grandad (with fairly progressed dementia) to hold the ladder, which he eventually got bored of and she ended up decked out on the patio with broken ribs, a broken nose and bitten tongue.
The neighbours had called an ambulance and then eventually my sister after rifling through the phone book, but ultimately the call landed with me to get sorted. My Sister is in a fairly high risk category and has isolated to the point she hasn't seen her two kids for several weeks, so understandably she wants to stay out of the firing line. My Brother is probably in the most difficult employment situation right now (earning nothing and thus far fallen between the cracks of the government aid) so I've stepped up. Unfortunately my grandparents outlived both of their children, hence the grandkids being the first line of support.
Latest update is that she's been checked into A&E, had some scans to confirm the injuries but they want her out of there ASAP, a hospital car will be dropping her off back home tomorrow at some point. I was told to wait till' the paramedics left to minimise their people contact so I never actually spoke to them, but I went through to collect my Grandad. He's pretty confused, we managed to keep him distracted at my house for a few hours, fed him and got his medication down him but he was scratching at the walls to go home. Eventually I relented and drove him back, he practically raced round the rooms looking for his wife when we got here despite me telling him moments earlier she was still in hospital... heart breaking stuff tbh.
Obviously there's no good time to fall off a ladder, but this couldn't be bloody worse. We've all got our own problems too, I've got a 6mo old baby at home with my wife so we're now having discussions about me potentially not seeing them for weeks on the assumption that my Nana is going to be a Covid hotspot after her hospital visit.
I know the topic of caring for relatives has come up recently on PH and was hotly and emotionally debated but I've been hoping desperately that I didn't have to worry about it just yet, despite constantly thinking about what our realistic options would be if things for worse.
Things have now just got worse very quickly, it's safe to say with broken ribs that she's going to be incapacitated for months so I'm trying to figure out an option that is fair and viable for all involved.
In terms of 'social care' the adult social services have already been in touch to say they could maybe get help here early next week but ultimately it's going to end up with some respite/care home facility as they understandably can't afford the resources for regular home care/visits right now. I'm probably being dramatic but sending them off to a facility like that right now is signing their death warrant.
Understandably it has been hard to speak to anybody today who is part of "the system", so I'm posting this half as a rant/release but half to see if the knowledge of PH can offer an insight into what mechanisms would normally be available in this sort of instance.
The neighbours had called an ambulance and then eventually my sister after rifling through the phone book, but ultimately the call landed with me to get sorted. My Sister is in a fairly high risk category and has isolated to the point she hasn't seen her two kids for several weeks, so understandably she wants to stay out of the firing line. My Brother is probably in the most difficult employment situation right now (earning nothing and thus far fallen between the cracks of the government aid) so I've stepped up. Unfortunately my grandparents outlived both of their children, hence the grandkids being the first line of support.
Latest update is that she's been checked into A&E, had some scans to confirm the injuries but they want her out of there ASAP, a hospital car will be dropping her off back home tomorrow at some point. I was told to wait till' the paramedics left to minimise their people contact so I never actually spoke to them, but I went through to collect my Grandad. He's pretty confused, we managed to keep him distracted at my house for a few hours, fed him and got his medication down him but he was scratching at the walls to go home. Eventually I relented and drove him back, he practically raced round the rooms looking for his wife when we got here despite me telling him moments earlier she was still in hospital... heart breaking stuff tbh.
Obviously there's no good time to fall off a ladder, but this couldn't be bloody worse. We've all got our own problems too, I've got a 6mo old baby at home with my wife so we're now having discussions about me potentially not seeing them for weeks on the assumption that my Nana is going to be a Covid hotspot after her hospital visit.
I know the topic of caring for relatives has come up recently on PH and was hotly and emotionally debated but I've been hoping desperately that I didn't have to worry about it just yet, despite constantly thinking about what our realistic options would be if things for worse.
Things have now just got worse very quickly, it's safe to say with broken ribs that she's going to be incapacitated for months so I'm trying to figure out an option that is fair and viable for all involved.
In terms of 'social care' the adult social services have already been in touch to say they could maybe get help here early next week but ultimately it's going to end up with some respite/care home facility as they understandably can't afford the resources for regular home care/visits right now. I'm probably being dramatic but sending them off to a facility like that right now is signing their death warrant.
Understandably it has been hard to speak to anybody today who is part of "the system", so I'm posting this half as a rant/release but half to see if the knowledge of PH can offer an insight into what mechanisms would normally be available in this sort of instance.
normally (!) it would be home care for the g/mother with district nursing for any wound care etc, physio, out-patients reviews etc.her needs are medical, his are possibly medical but mainly around risk to him now that his care provider is compromised
as carer for g/father, who by virtue of diagnosis and age is vulnerable, she would normally remain in hospital until his needs were being met. but ..this would almost certainly be some form of respite placement. his needs would normally have been formally assessed however and if a home care package were available/viable it would be financed and provided.
but, not normal times and all bets are off. i would suggest (with the benefit of insider knowledge but no real hope) that the first point of contact is the local authority to request an urgent/immediate assessment of his needs. .some acute hospitals have a complex discharge coordinator/team - could be worth a call to PALS to check this and get their advice.
given his vulnerability, there may also be safeguarding issues; again contact their local authority and speak to safeguarding lead.
the duty to assess need is triggered by the authority's knowledge of the vulnerable adult on their patch. in all dealings with health or social care agencies, cite the "new" Care Act - this tends to focus their minds
paul
as carer for g/father, who by virtue of diagnosis and age is vulnerable, she would normally remain in hospital until his needs were being met. but ..this would almost certainly be some form of respite placement. his needs would normally have been formally assessed however and if a home care package were available/viable it would be financed and provided.
but, not normal times and all bets are off. i would suggest (with the benefit of insider knowledge but no real hope) that the first point of contact is the local authority to request an urgent/immediate assessment of his needs. .some acute hospitals have a complex discharge coordinator/team - could be worth a call to PALS to check this and get their advice.
given his vulnerability, there may also be safeguarding issues; again contact their local authority and speak to safeguarding lead.
the duty to assess need is triggered by the authority's knowledge of the vulnerable adult on their patch. in all dealings with health or social care agencies, cite the "new" Care Act - this tends to focus their minds
paul
Would you be able to provide private carers to tide then over until social services could get something in place?
I would call the ward your grandmother is in tomorrow morning and ask to speak to the physio or occupational therapist. You should be able to discuss your concerns with them regarding discharge. We have tried our hardest at our hospital to keep covid patients away from our normal wards so would assume other hospitals have plans in place too. We are using community hospitals, nursing homes and home care to get our patients out as safely as possible. We also have discharge coordinators and complex discharge officers that you might be able to talk to.
Is your grandad on his own tonight? Or are you staying with him? Hope your grandmother recovers quickly but I have a feeling she might not get discharged tomorrow as shes had a significant trauma and rib fractures get more painful before they improve. Make sure shes got lidocaine patches prescribed.
I would call the ward your grandmother is in tomorrow morning and ask to speak to the physio or occupational therapist. You should be able to discuss your concerns with them regarding discharge. We have tried our hardest at our hospital to keep covid patients away from our normal wards so would assume other hospitals have plans in place too. We are using community hospitals, nursing homes and home care to get our patients out as safely as possible. We also have discharge coordinators and complex discharge officers that you might be able to talk to.
Is your grandad on his own tonight? Or are you staying with him? Hope your grandmother recovers quickly but I have a feeling she might not get discharged tomorrow as shes had a significant trauma and rib fractures get more painful before they improve. Make sure shes got lidocaine patches prescribed.
Thank you both, private care is something I've been googling a lot of in the last hour or so - I have some numbers to ring tomorrow.
In a perfect world we would simply pay to have somebody 'live in' with them both until this crisis is over then we can look at integrating some proper family care etc, or at least plan out something more long term. Paying for it is in reach for the family, it's just availability/viability of that at the moment is almost certainly nil.
Annoyingly I've been unable to speak to anybody at the hospital so far, it's been a long way around but all next of kin details were still that of their deceased son (my Uncle who died a few years ago) but we have managed to get through via my Nan's brother who is now considered the only "formal" contact by the hospital, hopefully we can get that switched to me in the morning.
I'm staying over with my Grandad tonight, he seems to be asleep and quiet but when he was awake it was killing me - constantly asking "where is she" and wandering off to go find her, obviously I need to man up a bit as there's likely to be a lot more where that came from, especially if she isn't home tomorrow.
My Sister is getting a bit paranoid now about me being around if/when my Nan gets delivered home tomorrow as she doesn't want me risking taking anything back to my baby - but I really can't just leave my Grandad alone.
As this initially unfolded I had my fingers crossed that the hospital would keep hold of my Nan for a bit, just so we knew she was cared for. After only a few hours with Grandad it's clear that he's struggling big time without her being around so now hopeful that she is brought home, even if she needs a lot of care - it will at least chill out Grandad a bit.
I would agree (based on zero knowledge at all) that her being home tomorrow is unlikely, but again these are unusual times and the message I got via my Great Uncle is that it sounds very likely she'll be home tomorrow.
In a perfect world we would simply pay to have somebody 'live in' with them both until this crisis is over then we can look at integrating some proper family care etc, or at least plan out something more long term. Paying for it is in reach for the family, it's just availability/viability of that at the moment is almost certainly nil.
Annoyingly I've been unable to speak to anybody at the hospital so far, it's been a long way around but all next of kin details were still that of their deceased son (my Uncle who died a few years ago) but we have managed to get through via my Nan's brother who is now considered the only "formal" contact by the hospital, hopefully we can get that switched to me in the morning.
I'm staying over with my Grandad tonight, he seems to be asleep and quiet but when he was awake it was killing me - constantly asking "where is she" and wandering off to go find her, obviously I need to man up a bit as there's likely to be a lot more where that came from, especially if she isn't home tomorrow.
My Sister is getting a bit paranoid now about me being around if/when my Nan gets delivered home tomorrow as she doesn't want me risking taking anything back to my baby - but I really can't just leave my Grandad alone.
As this initially unfolded I had my fingers crossed that the hospital would keep hold of my Nan for a bit, just so we knew she was cared for. After only a few hours with Grandad it's clear that he's struggling big time without her being around so now hopeful that she is brought home, even if she needs a lot of care - it will at least chill out Grandad a bit.
I would agree (based on zero knowledge at all) that her being home tomorrow is unlikely, but again these are unusual times and the message I got via my Great Uncle is that it sounds very likely she'll be home tomorrow.
There is 100% care available out there at the moment. If you can afford to pay for a carer then im certain you would be able to find them. Care services have been changed a lot recently to aid the swift discharge of patients. We used to have to have patients medically and therapy ready for discharge. With covid we now only have to be medically fit and any rehab or care will be implemented in the community.
With regards to your grandad all you can do is reassure him that his wife will be home and just reiterate that over and over. You could put a photo up on the wall or by his bed with a note big enough to read saying she is in hospital and will be home as soon as possible as it should remind him. Maybe put a few up around the house.
With regards to your grandad all you can do is reassure him that his wife will be home and just reiterate that over and over. You could put a photo up on the wall or by his bed with a note big enough to read saying she is in hospital and will be home as soon as possible as it should remind him. Maybe put a few up around the house.
K77 CTR said:
There is 100% care available out there at the moment. If you can afford to pay for a carer then im certain you would be able to find them. Care services have been changed a lot recently to aid the swift discharge of patients. We used to have to have patients medically and therapy ready for discharge. With covid we now only have to be medically fit and any rehab or care will be implemented in the community.
With regards to your grandad all you can do is reassure him that his wife will be home and just reiterate that over and over. You could put a photo up on the wall or by his bed with a note big enough to read saying she is in hospital and will be home as soon as possible as it should remind him. Maybe put a few up around the house.
Thank you that's re-assuring, pre-Covid we had already opened a pretty good dialogue with a local community care service for dementia sufferers and their families, unfortunately it all went quiet when the lockdowns kicked off but I felt there's a good source of local support available which I'll try to break into tomorrow. Unfortunately the mobile number for our contact was emailed me with a digit missing, so might need to do some trial and error on it tomorrow until I get through With regards to your grandad all you can do is reassure him that his wife will be home and just reiterate that over and over. You could put a photo up on the wall or by his bed with a note big enough to read saying she is in hospital and will be home as soon as possible as it should remind him. Maybe put a few up around the house.
Yes good idea on the photos, despite my Grandad living with his diagnosis for a few years now - this is the first time I've really been exposed to just how it impacts his life, in hindsight when my Nana isn't fixing greenhouse gutters she did a great job of keeping him calm and relaxed.
Thanks again for the help on Friday. Luckily my Grandad likes his sleep so that gave me the best part of 6 hours on Saturday to start getting organised, it was a long day but the conclusion was that adult social services got involved and said that he needed 'proper' care, and due to quarantine, lockdowns, etc they got him a room in a local care home with specialisation in dementia. Initially that was a relief but as we got to packing his stuff, things suddenly started to get very emotional.
Just before shipping him off we (finally) got in touch with the correct hospital ward where my Nan was kept and we managed to speak to her. Clearly in a lot of pain and feeling VERY silly for what she had done, but she encouraged us to get Grandad off to 'the home'. She even spoke to him for 5mins on the phone and he agreed to the plan and said it was a good idea, shame he forgot about that conversation 20mins later...!
We dropped him off on Saturday night, it felt bloody terrible as of course we couldn't go in - we literally dropped him on the doorstep with his bags. I felt like a complete scumbag (and still do), not ashamed to say I had to pull over a couple of times on the way home to clear my vision. I'm really hoping it's temporary and we can get some "in-house" care sorted for both grandparents so that we can get them back together as soon as she is home. It's clear from the sound of her voice today that the pain isn't going anywhere for some time yet, and she's going to be off her feet for the foreseeable future.
Grandad in the meantime seems to be having the time of his life, made friends already and said he's eating better than he can remember! It didn't dawn on me until we actually dropped him off that we may not see him until this lockdown is over, and that could be a critical few months of his life. I Really wish I spent more time seeing what we could have done within the family, so hoping to put that right as soon as the various services are back online Tuesday morning.
Just before shipping him off we (finally) got in touch with the correct hospital ward where my Nan was kept and we managed to speak to her. Clearly in a lot of pain and feeling VERY silly for what she had done, but she encouraged us to get Grandad off to 'the home'. She even spoke to him for 5mins on the phone and he agreed to the plan and said it was a good idea, shame he forgot about that conversation 20mins later...!
We dropped him off on Saturday night, it felt bloody terrible as of course we couldn't go in - we literally dropped him on the doorstep with his bags. I felt like a complete scumbag (and still do), not ashamed to say I had to pull over a couple of times on the way home to clear my vision. I'm really hoping it's temporary and we can get some "in-house" care sorted for both grandparents so that we can get them back together as soon as she is home. It's clear from the sound of her voice today that the pain isn't going anywhere for some time yet, and she's going to be off her feet for the foreseeable future.
Grandad in the meantime seems to be having the time of his life, made friends already and said he's eating better than he can remember! It didn't dawn on me until we actually dropped him off that we may not see him until this lockdown is over, and that could be a critical few months of his life. I Really wish I spent more time seeing what we could have done within the family, so hoping to put that right as soon as the various services are back online Tuesday morning.
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