Serious sleep issues and advice

[redrabbit29]

Hi all,

I've had about 15-20 years of sleep issues. For maybe 3-4 months things are good, then it just goes bad and I often get into an odd cycle of just not sleeping well. Often awake or not settled most of the night.

I did a huge sporting event recently that I trained a full year for (Ironman Triathlon). The week was overshadowed by sleep issues - partly due to a hotel I wasn't comfortable in, but even so, I should have been able to sleep to some degree - especially as I was exhausted for most of it.

Garmin Sleep Scores

The red box highlights the event day, so I had barely any sleep before a 14 hour event.



Issues

I am fairly sure a lot of it is anxiety and mental. I am sleep sensitive, so things like pillows, light in the room, temperature, general noise really bother me.

As an example:

- Air conditioning which works but turns off when the room is cool, then it's too quiet
- I love white noise like a fan in the background, often asking the hotel for one in the room just to have on as background noise
- Curtains which don't block out the light and so at 4am the room starts to brighten. I have tried sleep masks which are ok, but just a bit annoying

Recently, I tried some melatonin, from 0.5mg to 2mg. I'm still testing and realise it's only for short term use, so I want to try over the next 1-2 months at various points just to see how it goes.

I found magnesium helps a little if I can sleep and settle, then it does create a better, deeper sleep.

Desperate now

I've lived my life just accepting this. I try to fix it, but now I am at the point where I am just so fed up of it. It ruined a lot of the last week or at least made me unwell as I have now have a cold and feel run down.

I'm thinking of medical advice, but don't want to go to a GP just yet. I've been before and I am sick of responses like "oh you just need a hot bath"... "you need some herbal stuff"... "have you tried reading before bed"

Like seriously... it's like telling a guy who is addicted to heroin "Have you tried cutting down a bit?"

Any insight here?

I'm wondering if any others have experience of this? I don't just mean "oh yea, I sometimes find it hard too", I mean really serious issues that have plagued you for years, any thigns you've found worked well?

One thing I would like is a way of settling and sleeping before a big thing - like if I have a flight tomorrow to go on holiday, I often don't sleep. I know many probably struggle, but I end up just starting the holiday with zero sleep, feeling sick and honestly just unwell.

Thanks all

[Quhet]

Get some professional advice. There's absolutely no shame or risk in going to the GP and if things have got this bad you need to do something about it.

[Biglips]

I had this for many years. Turns out I had severe sleep apnoea. I’m not overweight, I don’t snore, I hardly drink alcohol. No risk factors at all, just thought I was a poor sleeper.

I am now on CPAP and it has transformed my life. You should get a sleep study. My Garmin did not correlate with my sleep study result. Good luck

[Sporky]

redrabbit29 said:

Hi all,
I'm wondering if any others have experience of this? I don't just mean "oh yea, I sometimes find it hard too", I mean really serious issues that have plagued you for years, any thigns you've found worked well?

Mine was never as bad as yours sounds, but I have some of the same issues. For me, earplugs and a cooling weighted blanket have made a huge difference.

[Hoofy]

How are your stress and anxiety levels? Hard to sleep if your mind doesn't want to switch off.

Are they bad enough to keep you awake? If so, it's less about comfort and more about calming the mind. You can fall asleep sitting at your desk if you're tired enough... and your mind is relaxed enough.

Edited by Hoofy on Wednesday 17th June 13:51

[redrabbit29]

Quhet said:

Get some professional advice. There's absolutely no shame or risk in going to the GP and if things have got this bad you need to do something about it.

Thanks - that is my intention. Maybe to attend one of those sleep clinics. I just wanted to get some personal experiences first, particularly if it means I can avoid the GP who almost always just fob you off with basic advice like I mentioned first.

I have private health care through work but it does not include sleep help which is a shame

Biglips said:

I had this for many years. Turns out I had severe sleep apnoea. I m not overweight, I don t snore, I hardly drink alcohol. No risk factors at all, just thought I was a poor sleeper.

I am now on CPAP and it has transformed my life. You should get a sleep study. My Garmin did not correlate with my sleep study result. Good luck

That's interesting that you had a diagnosis, hadn'e considered something like that. Like yourself, not overweight, I drink sometimes but not all the time.

As I said to the other person above - looking at sleep clinics, and maybe GP visit if that's the best route to get started.

Thanks! looking at the CPAP machines now just to see if it sounds like something which would help

Sporky said:

Mine was never as bad as yours sounds, but I have some of the same issues. For me, earplugs and a cooling weighted blanket have made a huge difference.

Thank you - a cooling blanket sounds interesting. I get so hot, even when it's cooler weather and in the winter - sounds like this may be beneficial for me too to me!

Hoofy said:

How are your stress and anxiety levels? Hard to sleep if your mind doesn't want to switch off.

Are they bad enough to keep you awake? If so, it's less about comfort and more about calming the mind. You can fall asleep sitting at your desk if you're tired enough... and your mind is relaxed enough.

Stress and anxiety is really an issue actually. I think I may have mentioned the mental side to this in the original post - but either way, I am a very big over thinker. Even if I am not worried, I just ahve about 100 thoughts often in my head.

When I am anxious, then I do think endlessly about someting.

I have spoken to numerous therapists about this - not the sleep stuff, but the anxiety and worry. The last person I had about 25 sessions with. It was good but like most therapy, it doesn't really have a long lasting or deep change.

Edited by redrabbit29 on Wednesday 17th June 13:58

[simon_harris]

have you tried magnesium supplements?

also what is your bedtime routine and times? staying off devices for 30-60 minutes before bed and going to bed earlier and at a consistent time along with ensuring your bedroom is a calm uncluttered environment can have an impact.

I tend to suffer from poor sleep finding that I have great difficulty in both getting to sleep and staying asleep, but magnesium and consistent earlier bedtimes do seem t be improving things.

[Sporky]

redrabbit29 said:

Thank you - a cooling blanket sounds interesting. I get so hot, even when it's cooler weather and in the winter - sounds like this may be beneficial for me too to me!

Hoofy said:

How are your stress and anxiety levels? Hard to sleep if your mind doesn't want to switch off.

Stress and anxiety is really an issue actually. I think I may have mentioned the mental side to this in the original post - but either way, I am a very big over thinker. Even if I am not worried, I just ahve about 100 thoughts often in my head.

I have a cooling top too, I often overheat.

The weighted blanket, for me, also helps quieten down my brain. Previously I'd want to sleep, but Brain would be feeling very chatty.

[redrabbit29]

simon_harris said:

have you tried magnesium supplements?

also what is your bedtime routine and times? staying off devices for 30-60 minutes before bed and going to bed earlier and at a consistent time along with ensuring your bedroom is a calm uncluttered environment can have an impact.

I tend to suffer from poor sleep finding that I have great difficulty in both getting to sleep and staying asleep, but magnesium and consistent earlier bedtimes do seem t be improving things.

Yes actually and they have helped. In my original post I did say this: "I found magnesium helps a little if I can sleep and settle, then it does create a better, deeper sleep."

So even if I can't sleep till about 2am, I have noticed the sleep is better when I do sleep

I am fairly good at staying off devices as I have them set to "do not disturb" after 8pm. I usualy watch TV until about 10pm - bed for reading until about 1030 or 11pm. Often I am tired and sleepy but often then struggle to sleep which is frustrating

[Nicetobenice]

I need background noise as well.

Speech based radio works but my fallback is a book on audible.

Something with no plot. Marcel Proust.
Don't try anything with a good plot as it will keep you hooked



If you need white noise then you can "get an app for that".

[MOBB]

Recently bought some Soundcore A20 sleep ear buds, I play a podcast and when I nod off it stops the podcast and plays a variety of white noise, wind chimes, that kind of thing.

Very comfortable all night too. Recommended

https://dustinabbott.net/2024/05/anker-soundcore-s...

[Tracklover]

Just some ideas I'll throw out there -

Do you consume caffeine at all?

Do you stay away from screens before bed?

Does physical unwinding help? A bath? Stretches?

[Pistom]

MOBB said:

Recently bought some Soundcore A20 sleep ear buds, I play a podcast and when I nod off it stops the podcast and plays a variety of white noise, wind chimes, that kind of thing.

Very comfortable all night too. Recommended

https://dustinabbott.net/2024/05/anker-soundcore-s...

Wow - I didn't realise those were even a thing - thank you.

I just go and sleep in another room with either a phone or tablet playing but this looks very good.

[simon_harris]

redrabbit29 said:

simon_harris said:

have you tried magnesium supplements?

also what is your bedtime routine and times? staying off devices for 30-60 minutes before bed and going to bed earlier and at a consistent time along with ensuring your bedroom is a calm uncluttered environment can have an impact.

I tend to suffer from poor sleep finding that I have great difficulty in both getting to sleep and staying asleep, but magnesium and consistent earlier bedtimes do seem t be improving things.

Yes actually and they have helped. In my original post I did say this: "I found magnesium helps a little if I can sleep and settle, then it does create a better, deeper sleep."

So even if I can't sleep till about 2am, I have noticed the sleep is better when I do sleep

I am fairly good at staying off devices as I have them set to "do not disturb" after 8pm. I usualy watch TV until about 10pm - bed for reading until about 1030 or 11pm. Often I am tired and sleepy but often then struggle to sleep which is frustrating

What I used to do was stay up until I felt tired, or at least felt like i would be able to go to sleep (usually around 11-11:30 and then go up to bed and lay awake until 1-2am getting more and more frustrated until i finally passed out, then I would wake at 4:30-5am and start overthinking nonsense until I dragged myself out of bed at 7.

What I have been doing recently is to go to bed around 9:30-10pm and then at least if it takes an hour to get to sleep it is still "early"

I was reading something the other week around body temperatures and it said something along the lines of your body needs to cool by a certain amount to induce sleep, if it can't do that then achieving sleep is more difficult, if bits of you are too cold to allow blood flow (like your legs) this slows cooling and inhibits sleep. I used to lie with my legs out of the blanket to make them cold (I prefer being cold to sleep) so i have been avoiding that and again while I don't know that individually that it has helped it may have contributed to the improvement I have experienced.

One thing I know for 100% sure any amount of alcohol and my quality of sleep is poorer, I may get to sleep quicker and sleep for longer but i do not feel better rested for it.

[Hoofy]

redrabbit29 said:

Hoofy said:

How are your stress and anxiety levels? Hard to sleep if your mind doesn't want to switch off.

Are they bad enough to keep you awake? If so, it's less about comfort and more about calming the mind. You can fall asleep sitting at your desk if you're tired enough... and your mind is relaxed enough.

Stress and anxiety is really an issue actually. I think I may have mentioned the mental side to this in the original post - but either way, I am a very big over thinker. Even if I am not worried, I just ahve about 100 thoughts often in my head.

When I am anxious, then I do think endlessly about someting.

I have spoken to numerous therapists about this - not the sleep stuff, but the anxiety and worry. The last person I had about 25 sessions with. It was good but like most therapy, it doesn't really have a long lasting or deep change.

Yes, you need a therapist who is going to get to the heart of the matter or it's just bandaid through the spoken word.

In the meantime, I'd recommend trying different ways of calming the mind such as Tai Chi, Qigong (Chi Kung), Mindfulness and Yoga. Do any of these slow practices before bedtime.

One of the benefits of mindfulness is you're not just slowing the mind but practising your ability to manage your thoughts and how you process your thoughts. It's subtle but really powerful.

[CardinalBlue]

I have always had insomnia. I'd regularly go days without sleep, no matter how tired I was, which obviously has a huge impact on everything. I totally agree with the advice I used to get from people - as if I hadn't already thought of not drinking coffee or not using my phone.

I've previously been on some pretty heavy-duty sleeping tablets, but I came off them for two reasons. Firstly, I was so passed out that I wouldn't hear my son when he woke in the night, and I didn't like that or feel safe. I'd sleep through multiple alarms for example. Secondly, I felt so groggy the next morning that I was probably not safe to drive, so I came off them.

I bought some melatonin and went straight for 10mg – probably not the safest or wisest approach, but I was desperate. It sends me to sleep and I wake up with no side effects the next day.

BUT... I know some people who have struggled with it, so just because I'm fine with it doesn't mean others will be. And like you say, they are intended for short term use only.

I wish you well!

[dobly]

I haven’t slept properly (naturally) since an emergency operation 17+ years ago. I now take a Zopiclone every other night to get decent restful sleep, but can’t use this every night as (according to my GP) they will become ineffective. For some people they are deeply addictive, and are often prescribed for short periods only. I have tried all the other drugs and none work. I have tried all the “natural” “solutions” and none have any effect - indeed melatonin makes me buzz - the only thing that I have yet to try is a sleep clinic, primarily as there isn’t one available anywhere near to where i live.
Last night I had about an hour and a half sleep, and plenty of partial dozing. Tonight I hope to get 3-9 hours of drugged-up sleep, depending on how disruptive my other half will be as she has a cold at the moment…
I can’t give any advice, as every situation is different, but wish you good luck with it.

[m3cs]

Much of this same for me.

A really simple one to help with the hotels, where I ALWAYS find the matress is too hard, the pillow too thick and the room too warm is… take your own pillow and a thin sheet. Sleep on top of their duvet to soften the hard matress. I also take a small fan both for the cooling and white noise effect.

Hope this helps

[Hugo Stiglitz]

simon_harris said:

have you tried magnesium supplements?

also what is your bedtime routine and times? staying off devices for 30-60 minutes before bed and going to bed earlier and at a consistent time along with ensuring your bedroom is a calm uncluttered environment can have an impact.

I tend to suffer from poor sleep finding that I have great difficulty in both getting to sleep and staying asleep, but magnesium and consistent earlier bedtimes do seem t be improving things.

Ah the first post. I take a lot of magnesium as otherwise I’m up wide awake at 2am

[WyrleyD]

I've suffered poor sleep on and off for 29 years now, I assumed it was just chronic insomnia but is actually anxiety about sleep causing me not to sleep. I only realised this about a month ago when GP was changing to yet another sleep drug after the last stopped working, I don't know why but I told her I thought I needed to tackle the anxiety which seemed to be causing the problem. I've now been taking Venlaxafine 37.5mg for 4 weeks (today) and I can't believe the change my anxiety has all but gone away, just a weird calmness even on this minimal dose. I also take Magnesium L-Threonate at about 6pm with dinner and then Magensium Glycinate with L-Theanine an hour before bed and have had 3 weeks of good sleep so far. I did post about Venlaxafine in the Setraline thread when I was having some initial side effects.