Aging Parents in denial..
Discussion
Hi all, just reading through similar threads, but just thought I'd try and get some more perspectives.
Maybe a long one, so apologies in advance, as I’m beginning to struggle to navigate this.
In the same position as many people my age are with elderly, aging parents, so would welcome some advice or suggestions from others in similar situations.
Dad is 90, stage 5 kidney disease with dialysis 3 times a week which is just keeping him alive. He’s getting weaker each time I see him now, and has pretty much checked out of anything to do with the home or any form of life admin, leaving it all to mum to sort out.
However, she has early stage dementia (but refuses to go to the Dr’s about it), by her own admission she is becoming increasingly forgetful around people, dates and times. A recent example is she had a hospital appointment, she got half way there and then had to try and get home because she couldn’t remember where she was going and couldn’t get to the hospital (if anyone’s familiar, think Leatherhead to Epsom hospital, straight road all the way).
As I said, dad has checked out, last weekend I had to sort out a new car for them (old one hit by a lorry and written off), arrange insurance, tax etc. etc. because dad didn’t want to do it and mum lacks the capability- all in all incredibly frustrating due to lack of paperwork, no idea what was going on etc.
There are other issues, they lost their attendance allowance because they couldn’t be bothered to confirm by sending the forms back etc. I (up until recently) was collecting him from Dialysis two out of the 3 days as mum was struggling, but has recently moved to getting taxis for him, whilst constantly complaining about cost, but due to my work, I can’t always do a collection for him, so the attendance allowance would have covered that. This is something I can look to reinstate (I think) without too much trouble.
So, life admin aside, this is where I’m beginning to struggle, allot of this is left to me, my brother lives a distance away and (IMO) does very little to help in all aspects of their life. I’ve been discussing what’s next for them, if when one of my parents die and what we will need to do.
Parents had both said they had done the POA for both brother and myself, but when pushed, dad said he hadn’t done it as ‘it cost and arm and a leg’ and only sorted out us as executors of the will. To be clear, this isn’t an issue over lack of funds, just a ‘can’t be bothered’ and ‘someone else will sort it’ attitude from him that I making me more and more frustrated with him.
They have done nothing around estate planning, and without POA we will have little impact of what could happen with one or both of them in terms of what could happen next I fear that very soon, one or both have to be in a care home which will need to be funded by selling their home.
Dad just doesn’t care, mum gets angry when we have raised this on numerous occasions, but they are just choosing to ignore it.
I guess I’m just looking for some suggestions about what we can do from someone who has been there before and could share some insights?
Appreciate any thoughts or suggestions
Maybe a long one, so apologies in advance, as I’m beginning to struggle to navigate this.
In the same position as many people my age are with elderly, aging parents, so would welcome some advice or suggestions from others in similar situations.
Dad is 90, stage 5 kidney disease with dialysis 3 times a week which is just keeping him alive. He’s getting weaker each time I see him now, and has pretty much checked out of anything to do with the home or any form of life admin, leaving it all to mum to sort out.
However, she has early stage dementia (but refuses to go to the Dr’s about it), by her own admission she is becoming increasingly forgetful around people, dates and times. A recent example is she had a hospital appointment, she got half way there and then had to try and get home because she couldn’t remember where she was going and couldn’t get to the hospital (if anyone’s familiar, think Leatherhead to Epsom hospital, straight road all the way).
As I said, dad has checked out, last weekend I had to sort out a new car for them (old one hit by a lorry and written off), arrange insurance, tax etc. etc. because dad didn’t want to do it and mum lacks the capability- all in all incredibly frustrating due to lack of paperwork, no idea what was going on etc.
There are other issues, they lost their attendance allowance because they couldn’t be bothered to confirm by sending the forms back etc. I (up until recently) was collecting him from Dialysis two out of the 3 days as mum was struggling, but has recently moved to getting taxis for him, whilst constantly complaining about cost, but due to my work, I can’t always do a collection for him, so the attendance allowance would have covered that. This is something I can look to reinstate (I think) without too much trouble.
So, life admin aside, this is where I’m beginning to struggle, allot of this is left to me, my brother lives a distance away and (IMO) does very little to help in all aspects of their life. I’ve been discussing what’s next for them, if when one of my parents die and what we will need to do.
Parents had both said they had done the POA for both brother and myself, but when pushed, dad said he hadn’t done it as ‘it cost and arm and a leg’ and only sorted out us as executors of the will. To be clear, this isn’t an issue over lack of funds, just a ‘can’t be bothered’ and ‘someone else will sort it’ attitude from him that I making me more and more frustrated with him.
They have done nothing around estate planning, and without POA we will have little impact of what could happen with one or both of them in terms of what could happen next I fear that very soon, one or both have to be in a care home which will need to be funded by selling their home.
Dad just doesn’t care, mum gets angry when we have raised this on numerous occasions, but they are just choosing to ignore it.
I guess I’m just looking for some suggestions about what we can do from someone who has been there before and could share some insights?
Appreciate any thoughts or suggestions
Sounds rather familiar, mine even live quite close to yours.
I managed to persuade Dad to stop driving after one too many minor 'bumps', which has made things a bit less scary. I think we are still a little way off the day when Mum forgets where she's going, but that's something I'm watching closely as the point will come when I need to intervene.
Currently sorting out LPAs as similarly found out none in place - I'm having to do all the work and I'll just pay for it so they don't make a fuss about the cost.
The role reversal is mostly complete now, I feel like the parent. Guess it comes to us all in the end.
I managed to persuade Dad to stop driving after one too many minor 'bumps', which has made things a bit less scary. I think we are still a little way off the day when Mum forgets where she's going, but that's something I'm watching closely as the point will come when I need to intervene.
Currently sorting out LPAs as similarly found out none in place - I'm having to do all the work and I'll just pay for it so they don't make a fuss about the cost.
The role reversal is mostly complete now, I feel like the parent. Guess it comes to us all in the end.
Firstly sorry to hear about your Fathers health and the situation you are now in.
It isn’t too late to obtain LPA ( both Finance / Property and Health / Welfare but you need to try tomorrow to start the application.
You may be able to persuade a local solicitor to visit both parents just to see how aware your Mum is although if your Dad is mentally aware he should be fit enough to sign.
I applied for LPA for a relative who was already in a care home ( unknown to me ) and my solicitor did just this and declared himself happy to agree to do the application based on the chat he had with her.
Without either for either your powers to act are pretty limited especially on anything to do with Finance.
As next of kin you and your brother may be able to argue some points on Health issues but that’s not guaranteed.
One question though ( and please don’t take the wrong way) but a car for your Mum - I say that only if she doesn’t pass the solicitors “ test “.
Just so you know it’s the Finance LPA that you will need in order to speak with anyone on things like telephone , electricity , insurance etc and not just the obvious Financial entities.
You need to just try and get this done as the alternative will end up as court of protection action which will take many months- even getting a LPA can take many weeks.
I guess you need to convince both parents that without the LPA you cannot help them BUT it doesn’t mean you will take over their lives.
I used the “ high level overview “ for my Mum recently which did the trick but I already had the LPA’ s in place.
I hope that’s vaguely helpful and if I’ve missed anything shout.
It isn’t too late to obtain LPA ( both Finance / Property and Health / Welfare but you need to try tomorrow to start the application.
You may be able to persuade a local solicitor to visit both parents just to see how aware your Mum is although if your Dad is mentally aware he should be fit enough to sign.
I applied for LPA for a relative who was already in a care home ( unknown to me ) and my solicitor did just this and declared himself happy to agree to do the application based on the chat he had with her.
Without either for either your powers to act are pretty limited especially on anything to do with Finance.
As next of kin you and your brother may be able to argue some points on Health issues but that’s not guaranteed.
One question though ( and please don’t take the wrong way) but a car for your Mum - I say that only if she doesn’t pass the solicitors “ test “.
Just so you know it’s the Finance LPA that you will need in order to speak with anyone on things like telephone , electricity , insurance etc and not just the obvious Financial entities.
You need to just try and get this done as the alternative will end up as court of protection action which will take many months- even getting a LPA can take many weeks.
I guess you need to convince both parents that without the LPA you cannot help them BUT it doesn’t mean you will take over their lives.
I used the “ high level overview “ for my Mum recently which did the trick but I already had the LPA’ s in place.
I hope that’s vaguely helpful and if I’ve missed anything shout.
Meant to add my usual advice of try not to think of what you need to do as one big issue to resolve as that is frankly usually just too daunting.
Instead make a list of everything that you need to do and think of each item as a baby step.
Keep a check list of what that everything is - especially should you hopefully gain LPA authority for both parents - and then include 3 columns . the second one to be when you have contacted the organization concerned and then a second tick ( or date ) when sorted.
The very thought of enacting LPA's can be equally daunting but in reality the deed is far easier than the thought especially when you have done the first contact with whomever.
Instead make a list of everything that you need to do and think of each item as a baby step.
Keep a check list of what that everything is - especially should you hopefully gain LPA authority for both parents - and then include 3 columns . the second one to be when you have contacted the organization concerned and then a second tick ( or date ) when sorted.
The very thought of enacting LPA's can be equally daunting but in reality the deed is far easier than the thought especially when you have done the first contact with whomever.
alscar said:
Meant to add my usual advice of try not to think of what you need to do as one big issue to resolve as that is frankly usually just too daunting.
Instead make a list of everything that you need to do and think of each item as a baby step.
Keep a check list of what that everything is - especially should you hopefully gain LPA authority for both parents - and then include 3 columns . the second one to be when you have contacted the organization concerned and then a second tick ( or date ) when sorted.
The very thought of enacting LPA's can be equally daunting but in reality the deed is far easier than the thought especially when you have done the first contact with whomever.
Thanks for this. Brother and I are taking on the tasks, he is LPA, I'm all the others.Instead make a list of everything that you need to do and think of each item as a baby step.
Keep a check list of what that everything is - especially should you hopefully gain LPA authority for both parents - and then include 3 columns . the second one to be when you have contacted the organization concerned and then a second tick ( or date ) when sorted.
The very thought of enacting LPA's can be equally daunting but in reality the deed is far easier than the thought especially when you have done the first contact with whomever.
I think my mother has deteriorated over the weekend, she called yesterday afternoon and outright denied we had a conversation in the morning, told me I was evil and told me never to contact her again, which was a bit of a blow.
I know its because she can't remember, but given all I have done over the last few weeks was a bit of a blow.
I'll leave it to tomorrow and hope that she has forgotten that, and then we can look to get other things in place for her...
Don’t take your Mums comments to heart.
Dementia / Alzheimer’s is a horrid thing.
Given your earlier comments about your brother it might be worth considering LPA being given to both of you though.
You can tick the box that says joint and several in its operation ie you can both make decisions independently rather than the second option which is purely joint which in reality can be a pain.
Dementia / Alzheimer’s is a horrid thing.
Given your earlier comments about your brother it might be worth considering LPA being given to both of you though.
You can tick the box that says joint and several in its operation ie you can both make decisions independently rather than the second option which is purely joint which in reality can be a pain.
IME the difficulty with establishing LPA in dementia per se isn't the mental capacity to intellectually understand the power, it's the ability to recognise the need for the power ie. denial and also the mild but pervasive suspiciousness that can come with early cognitive impairment.
The test for capacity for ability to donate LPA is quite a low bar. However it is likely that, where the donee has suspected or established dementia, a responsible solicitor will ask for a qualified opinion to verify capacity.
This might sound a bit cynical but the LPA only needs to be good enough to survive a challenge. This begs the question who is going to challenge it? Usually it would come from another interested person (another family member in dispute) or a representative of the donor.
Bizarre as it sounds, there can be a second bite of the cherry when a little further into the dementing process, the denial and suspiciousness have abated and the process can proceed.
Believe it or not, I've provided support for LPA for dementia patients on my in patient ward who'd been admitted under a section of the Mental Health Act due to behaviour disturbance or breakdown in care. In these cases, I've had the solicitor, the patient and the donee(s) around a table. As long as the patient is able to understand the power; recognise the donee; wishes the donee to take over the their affairs; we can repeat the process on a second occasion and everyone is happy.
The alternative is to go to the Court of Protection to apply for a deputy. That would be a bit of a nonsense if you've been through the process I describe in the above paragraph.
Obviously it helps if the psychiatrist involved knows the situation well and the solicitor is an experienced (usually) STEP practitioner.
The test for capacity for ability to donate LPA is quite a low bar. However it is likely that, where the donee has suspected or established dementia, a responsible solicitor will ask for a qualified opinion to verify capacity.
This might sound a bit cynical but the LPA only needs to be good enough to survive a challenge. This begs the question who is going to challenge it? Usually it would come from another interested person (another family member in dispute) or a representative of the donor.
Bizarre as it sounds, there can be a second bite of the cherry when a little further into the dementing process, the denial and suspiciousness have abated and the process can proceed.
Believe it or not, I've provided support for LPA for dementia patients on my in patient ward who'd been admitted under a section of the Mental Health Act due to behaviour disturbance or breakdown in care. In these cases, I've had the solicitor, the patient and the donee(s) around a table. As long as the patient is able to understand the power; recognise the donee; wishes the donee to take over the their affairs; we can repeat the process on a second occasion and everyone is happy.
The alternative is to go to the Court of Protection to apply for a deputy. That would be a bit of a nonsense if you've been through the process I describe in the above paragraph.
Obviously it helps if the psychiatrist involved knows the situation well and the solicitor is an experienced (usually) STEP practitioner.
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