Damage to nerve in arm

[victor01]

Hi All,

This is my first post on PH although I have used the site for many years and bought and sold a few cars on here also.

I have a problem with my arm (caused I think by doing chin ups or dumbell curls) whereby I cannot tense up my bicep muscle and I have lost strengh as a result. A specialist has advised me that I have damaged a nerve and that my bicep or nerve is not 'triggering'.

Has anyone experienced this or does anyone have any advice - My concern is that this problem will not go away. (It has been ongoing now for over 3 months now).

Many thanks,

V

[spikeyhead]

I'm struggling to see how you can damage a nerve from exercise. Normally you need a blow or external pressure to cause nerve damage.

[victor01]

Thanks!

This is fair comment and it was my assumption (possibly incorrect) that this was the cause. The sports therapist report states 'damage to radial nerve at elbow. Lead to greatly reduced activation at biceps...'.

Irrespective of the cause, I am concerned that this has not passsed after 3 months.

Any other feedback welcome!

[spikeyhead]

I'm noww even more concerned. Damage to the Radial nerve that far down would lead you being unable to lift your wrist up. It cannot have any effect on your bicep.

Have you had any pain, or pins and needles or any other symptoms?

[Beardy10]

I've been having a problem with pain in my forearm which I thought was a strained muscle...it's taken ages to settle down as amongst other things I have a little boy who I pick up several times a day. Anyway I finally went to see a physio last week and it was diagnosed as my radial nerve causing the pain but it was actually referring from a problem in my shoulder which was not actually getting any pain itself. Had some acupuncture which has helped the pain a lot and am doing some exercises to strengthen my rotator cuff muscles. I suppose what I am trying to say is that maybe you have a similar problem ?

[goldblum]

It's quite common for people doing abs exercises to 'pull' neck muscles.Bad technique.

Friend of mine was doing flags,where you rest your bodyweight on your upper back,across your shoulders and neck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCMq2zkbOo

After that abs session he said his back felt 'cold'.

Turns out he'd trapped a nerve in his neck.Which affected a rhomboid,his left shoulder and left bicep.

He was in agony and couldn't train for four months.

Edited by goldblum on Wednesday 1st September 00:50

[victor01]

Many thanks for the replies!

I am not in any pain at all however - the trouble is simply that I cannot tense up my bicep and I have no idea what is causing it. I cannot do dumbell curls any more with my right arm and am struggling to lift our wee boy also.

Guess I will need to get further professional opinion and take it from there...a mystery..

[goldblum]

Mmmm was there any pain,no matter how fleeting,when you were doing chins/curls?

If not then the specialist could well be right.Nerves grow back at a rate of 1mm a month

so recovery will take quite a few weeks,I'm afraid.

No lifting kids with that arm for a while,in fact no kids,shopping,weights etc.

Sorry,hope I'm wrong!

[E21_Ross]

victor01 said:

Many thanks for the replies!

I am not in any pain at all however - the trouble is simply that I cannot tense up my bicep and I have no idea what is causing it. I cannot do dumbell curls any more with my right arm and am struggling to lift our wee boy also.

Guess I will need to get further professional opinion and take it from there...a mystery..

did your physio do a reflex test? this could help determine (if indeed it is a nerve problem that is) whether it's an upper or lower motor neuron problem.

[Bill]

victor01 said:

The sports therapist report states 'damage to radial nerve at elbow. Lead to greatly reduced activation at biceps...'.

What are their qualifications? The radial nerve doesn't supply the biceps, and damage at the elbow would only affect muscles further down the arm.

[E21_Ross]

Bill said:

victor01 said:

The sports therapist report states 'damage to radial nerve at elbow. Lead to greatly reduced activation at biceps...'.

What are their qualifications? The radial nerve doesn't supply the biceps, and damage at the elbow would only affect muscles further down the arm.

this exactly

[victor01]

Bill, I see you are a Physio. The chap that I went to see was a sports therapist with a degree and MSST qualification. In fairness, he did suggest I go to see a physio.

Have been thinking about the problem with my arm over past few days - could sleeping on the arm cause this type of thing? As a physio, you encoutnered this previously? I have woken up a few times with pins and needles from this but surely we all do at some point...

[victor01]

E21_Ross said:

victor01 said:

Many thanks for the replies!

I am not in any pain at all however - the trouble is simply that I cannot tense up my bicep and I have no idea what is causing it. I cannot do dumbell curls any more with my right arm and am struggling to lift our wee boy also.

Guess I will need to get further professional opinion and take it from there...a mystery..

did your physio do a reflex test? this could help determine (if indeed it is a nerve problem that is) whether it's an upper or lower motor neuron problem.

No, have no had such a test done. Only had a 1 hour intro visit! Will keep this in mind, thanks.

[E21_Ross]

victor01 said:

E21_Ross said:

victor01 said:

Many thanks for the replies!

I am not in any pain at all however - the trouble is simply that I cannot tense up my bicep and I have no idea what is causing it. I cannot do dumbell curls any more with my right arm and am struggling to lift our wee boy also.

Guess I will need to get further professional opinion and take it from there...a mystery..

did your physio do a reflex test? this could help determine (if indeed it is a nerve problem that is) whether it's an upper or lower motor neuron problem.

No, have no had such a test done. Only had a 1 hour intro visit! Will keep this in mind, thanks.

basically, (complex things aside) you have a nerve coming from a motor/movement part in your brain which runs down your spinal cord, it then joins to another motor neuron to go to a muscle. if the 1st one is damaged, it leads to different test results than if the 2nd one is damaged. both ultimately lead to lack of voluntary movement of the muscle though.

whatever it is, hope you get it sorted asap.

[Bill]

victor01 said:

Bill, I see you are a Physio. The chap that I went to see was a sports therapist with a degree and MSST qualification. In fairness, he did suggest I go to see a physio.

Have been thinking about the problem with my arm over past few days - could sleeping on the arm cause this type of thing? As a physio, you encoutnered this previously? I have woken up a few times with pins and needles from this but surely we all do at some point...

Firstly an apology, as I'm not going to sort this for you online as there are simply too many questions to ask and given the timescale I'm not convinced physio should be your first port of call anyway.

I have come across similar, but usually associated with pain or prolonged pins and needles or numbness. Assuming it's not just a biceps tendon rupture the obvious suspect is a nerve compression at the neck, but there are various points where the musculocutaneous nerve can be trapped lower down. Wiki mentions compression due to excess weightlifting and biceps hypertrophy but tbh I can't see how that would happen and a quick review of the research doesn't come up with anything.

The other option is a traction injury due to trauma or wearing a heavy rucksack, and possibly due to your sleeping position, but I'd expect you to have continuous numbness...

It might be easily sorted but the longer it goes on for the less likely it is that the nerve will recover, so go to your GP and talk to them about a referral to a neurologist.

[E21_Ross]

Bill said:

victor01 said:

Bill, I see you are a Physio. The chap that I went to see was a sports therapist with a degree and MSST qualification. In fairness, he did suggest I go to see a physio.

Have been thinking about the problem with my arm over past few days - could sleeping on the arm cause this type of thing? As a physio, you encoutnered this previously? I have woken up a few times with pins and needles from this but surely we all do at some point...

Firstly an apology, as I'm not going to sort this for you online as there are simply too many questions to ask and given the timescale I'm not convinced physio should be your first port of call anyway.

I have come across similar, but usually associated with pain or prolonged pins and needles or numbness. Assuming it's not just a biceps tendon rupture the obvious suspect is a nerve compression at the neck, but there are various points where the musculocutaneous nerve can be trapped lower down. Wiki mentions compression due to excess weightlifting and biceps hypertrophy but tbh I can't see how that would happen and a quick review of the research doesn't come up with anything.

The other option is a traction injury due to trauma or wearing a heavy rucksack, and possibly due to your sleeping position, but I'd expect you to have continuous numbness...

It might be easily sorted but the longer it goes on for the less likely it is that the nerve will recover, so go to your GP and talk to them about a referral to a neurologist.

agreed, and what makes me very convinced it's not tendon rupture was the OP saying no sign of pain or no obvious trauma has caused the problem. can imagine he'd know about it otherwise

motor neurone problem doesn't necessarily come with pain/tingling etc, far from it in fact as you know.

'tis a strange case. the fact there has been no trauma or pain does ring a few alarms for me, and may not be a simple case at all. but, it might be. as bill rightly says, impossible to diagnose a case such as this online, no neuro tests can be done etc.

OP - do you feel pain over the bicep? i really want to know if a reflex test shows any signs of movement, whether it's even a very small/weak response. this could help tell us a fair few things.

[spikeyhead]

E21_Ross said:

Bill said:

victor01 said:

Bill, I see you are a Physio. The chap that I went to see was a sports therapist with a degree and MSST qualification. In fairness, he did suggest I go to see a physio.

Have been thinking about the problem with my arm over past few days - could sleeping on the arm cause this type of thing? As a physio, you encoutnered this previously? I have woken up a few times with pins and needles from this but surely we all do at some point...

Firstly an apology, as I'm not going to sort this for you online as there are simply too many questions to ask and given the timescale I'm not convinced physio should be your first port of call anyway.

I have come across similar, but usually associated with pain or prolonged pins and needles or numbness. Assuming it's not just a biceps tendon rupture the obvious suspect is a nerve compression at the neck, but there are various points where the musculocutaneous nerve can be trapped lower down. Wiki mentions compression due to excess weightlifting and biceps hypertrophy but tbh I can't see how that would happen and a quick review of the research doesn't come up with anything.

The other option is a traction injury due to trauma or wearing a heavy rucksack, and possibly due to your sleeping position, but I'd expect you to have continuous numbness...

It might be easily sorted but the longer it goes on for the less likely it is that the nerve will recover, so go to your GP and talk to them about a referral to a neurologist.

agreed, and what makes me very convinced it's not tendon rupture was the OP saying no sign of pain or no obvious trauma has caused the problem. can imagine he'd know about it otherwise

motor neurone problem doesn't necessarily come with pain/tingling etc, far from it in fact as you know.

'tis a strange case. the fact there has been no trauma or pain does ring a few alarms for me, and may not be a simple case at all. but, it might be. as bill rightly says, impossible to diagnose a case such as this online, no neuro tests can be done etc.

OP - do you feel pain over the bicep? i really want to know if a reflex test shows any signs of movement, whether it's even a very small/weak response. this could help tell us a fair few things.

I think all we can tell is that it needs someone that knows what they are doing to have a proper examination. That can't happen online, but I'd be interested to hear the outcome.

[Bill]

E21_Ross said:

agreed, and what makes me very convinced it's not tendon rupture was the OP saying no sign of pain or no obvious trauma has caused the problem. can imagine he'd know about it otherwise

You'd be surprised, I've seen a couple of cases where the patient had no idea.

E21_Ross said:

motor neurone problem doesn't necessarily come with pain/tingling etc, far from it in fact as you know.

True, but it's unusual as they run within the nerve alongside sensory neurones once the anterior and dorsal roots have come together, so it's hard to compress a motor neurone in isolation (unless it's a purely motor branch). Generally (IME) sensory changes are more common than pure motor changes.

Edited by Bill on Friday 3rd September 14:10

[E21_Ross]

Bill said:

E21_Ross said:

agreed, and what makes me very convinced it's not tendon rupture was the OP saying no sign of pain or no obvious trauma has caused the problem. can imagine he'd know about it otherwise

You'd be surprised, I've seen a couple of cases where the patient had no idea.

E21_Ross said:

motor neurone problem doesn't necessarily come with pain/tingling etc, far from it in fact as you know.

True, but it's unusual as they run within the nerve alongside sensory neurones once the anterior and dorsal roots have come together, so it's hard to compress a motor neurone in isolation (unless it's a purely motor branch). Generally (IME) sensory changes are more common than pure motor changes.

Edited by Bill on Friday 3rd September 14:10

yep. don't think i've ever known of a case of just motor problems caused by compression of a nerve. although compression is obviously not the only cause of motor (or sensory of course) function loss. seems quite an odd case to me, like you said, impossible to diagnose over the internet.

think we both agree - OP should go and see someone, and 3 months without function is very bad.

what'd be interesting is the see the lever of muscle atrophy, and whether the muscle os completely flaccid (i.e. no tone at all), if there is no tone at all then you can all but guarantee it's a neurological problem, likewise, if atrophy is not severe, then there must be some neurological activity going on.

either way, it's a case i think the OP should keep us updated on, i'd be really interested to see the outcome.

[Bill]

OP??

E21_Ross said:

Bill said:

You'd be surprised, I've seen a couple of cases where the patient had no idea.

One was a little old lady with an achilles rupture who was struggling to walk but had no idea why and the other was a friend who asked in the pub why his arm looked funny - ruptured long head of biceps...