Ticket Touts - The end is nigh?
Discussion
In the past two days I've read different stories regarding Manchester Utd and Liverpool getting tough on touts. Now call me naive, but isn't this all about those clubs just wanting to sell more corporate tickets?
In the Liverpool situation the police are also involved. Not sure why as I would regard it as a civil matter.
In reality it's quite easy I imagine to track the touts. Tickets are now digital and a simple scan will reveal match tickets that are constantly transferred to other people and spot checks can be done on those.
I feel the reality is that touts will have their season tickets cancelled, then sold to the next in line, but Joe Public who wants to just go for the odd match ends up having to go corporate, this means even more £££'s but that money is going directly to the club, not the tout.
In the Liverpool situation the police are also involved. Not sure why as I would regard it as a civil matter.
In reality it's quite easy I imagine to track the touts. Tickets are now digital and a simple scan will reveal match tickets that are constantly transferred to other people and spot checks can be done on those.
I feel the reality is that touts will have their season tickets cancelled, then sold to the next in line, but Joe Public who wants to just go for the odd match ends up having to go corporate, this means even more £££'s but that money is going directly to the club, not the tout.
pingu393 said:
I've never understood the problem...
Club expects to get £100 for a ticket, and sells it to John for £100. Both are happy.
John sells the ticket to Adam for £115. Both are happy.
Where's the harm - unless the club needs to confirm John isn't an undesirable?
There are a few issues with it.Club expects to get £100 for a ticket, and sells it to John for £100. Both are happy.
John sells the ticket to Adam for £115. Both are happy.
Where's the harm - unless the club needs to confirm John isn't an undesirable?
- clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
I can only give an experience for Man United, where I have a season ticket.
The club's measures to reduce touting have now got to the point that it is nigh impossible to do.
We used to have a paper voucher, or ticket that could be passed anyone or sold for whatever the black market would pay.
The club got their original ticket cost, but non of the resale, that went to the touts.
They introduced electronic ticketing, that could then be 'screen-shot' and sold as above.
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
Now here is the thing they were after all along; the tout's cut of the resale.
With the app I can sell my ticket back to the club if I cannot make a game, they then re-list it for sale to members, but at +50% the original price.
This gives them increased revenue, but the club is scamming its own fans.
If I cannot attend a match I aways try to transfer my ticket to another member for face value, or end up giving it to my daughter!!
The club's measures to reduce touting have now got to the point that it is nigh impossible to do.
We used to have a paper voucher, or ticket that could be passed anyone or sold for whatever the black market would pay.
The club got their original ticket cost, but non of the resale, that went to the touts.
They introduced electronic ticketing, that could then be 'screen-shot' and sold as above.
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
Now here is the thing they were after all along; the tout's cut of the resale.
With the app I can sell my ticket back to the club if I cannot make a game, they then re-list it for sale to members, but at +50% the original price.
This gives them increased revenue, but the club is scamming its own fans.
If I cannot attend a match I aways try to transfer my ticket to another member for face value, or end up giving it to my daughter!!
Samcat said:
I can only give an experience for Man United, where I have a season ticket.
The club's measures to reduce touting have now got to the point that it is nigh impossible to do.
We used to have a paper voucher, or ticket that could be passed anyone or sold for whatever the black market would pay.
The club got their original ticket cost, but non of the resale, that went to the touts.
They introduced electronic ticketing, that could then be 'screen-shot' and sold as above.
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
Now here is the thing they were after all along; the tout's cut of the resale.
With the app I can sell my ticket back to the club if I cannot make a game, they then re-list it for sale to members, but at +50% the original price.
This gives them increased revenue, but the club is scamming its own fans.
If I cannot attend a match I aways try to transfer my ticket to another member for face value, or end up giving it to my daughter!!
Similar here.The club's measures to reduce touting have now got to the point that it is nigh impossible to do.
We used to have a paper voucher, or ticket that could be passed anyone or sold for whatever the black market would pay.
The club got their original ticket cost, but non of the resale, that went to the touts.
They introduced electronic ticketing, that could then be 'screen-shot' and sold as above.
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
Now here is the thing they were after all along; the tout's cut of the resale.
With the app I can sell my ticket back to the club if I cannot make a game, they then re-list it for sale to members, but at +50% the original price.
This gives them increased revenue, but the club is scamming its own fans.
If I cannot attend a match I aways try to transfer my ticket to another member for face value, or end up giving it to my daughter!!
I transfer tickets I don't need to friends.
I personally have no issue with any of this. I didn't buy the ticket to be making profit from it, but because I support my club. I'm happy I can give the ticket to other fans of the club, even if I don't make a profit from that.
(My club don't offer reselling at the moment...again, I'd only be doing this if I couldn't make a game and friends weren't available...which will be very rare. So I don't have an issue with that either and don't see any of it as scamming).
Not a season ticket holder but having read some of the coverage on Utd season ticket holders having their tickets suspended, it seems they are using software to detect unusual patterns around sharing tickets: I would guess sharing above a certain threshold versus using the ticket personally, and the number of different people the ticket is shared with.
It’s not people sharing for a small markup, it’s people selling tickets at many multiples of face value that causes the hit to their reputation.
Although it’s clear the clubs want more “tourist “ fans as they make a lot more money per game compared to season ticket holders. It’s the US sport as a money making spectacle we have just witnessed with the World Cup
It’s not people sharing for a small markup, it’s people selling tickets at many multiples of face value that causes the hit to their reputation.
Although it’s clear the clubs want more “tourist “ fans as they make a lot more money per game compared to season ticket holders. It’s the US sport as a money making spectacle we have just witnessed with the World Cup
Murph7355 said:
Samcat said:
I can only give an experience for Man United, where I have a season ticket.
The club's measures to reduce touting have now got to the point that it is nigh impossible to do.
We used to have a paper voucher, or ticket that could be passed anyone or sold for whatever the black market would pay.
The club got their original ticket cost, but non of the resale, that went to the touts.
They introduced electronic ticketing, that could then be 'screen-shot' and sold as above.
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
Now here is the thing they were after all along; the tout's cut of the resale.
With the app I can sell my ticket back to the club if I cannot make a game, they then re-list it for sale to members, but at +50% the original price.
This gives them increased revenue, but the club is scamming its own fans.
If I cannot attend a match I aways try to transfer my ticket to another member for face value, or end up giving it to my daughter!!
Similar here.The club's measures to reduce touting have now got to the point that it is nigh impossible to do.
We used to have a paper voucher, or ticket that could be passed anyone or sold for whatever the black market would pay.
The club got their original ticket cost, but non of the resale, that went to the touts.
They introduced electronic ticketing, that could then be 'screen-shot' and sold as above.
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
Now here is the thing they were after all along; the tout's cut of the resale.
With the app I can sell my ticket back to the club if I cannot make a game, they then re-list it for sale to members, but at +50% the original price.
This gives them increased revenue, but the club is scamming its own fans.
If I cannot attend a match I aways try to transfer my ticket to another member for face value, or end up giving it to my daughter!!
I transfer tickets I don't need to friends.
I personally have no issue with any of this. I didn't buy the ticket to be making profit from it, but because I support my club. I'm happy I can give the ticket to other fans of the club, even if I don't make a profit from that.
(My club don't offer reselling at the moment...again, I'd only be doing this if I couldn't make a game and friends weren't available...which will be very rare. So I don't have an issue with that either and don't see any of it as scamming).
pingu393 said:
I've never understood the problem...
Club expects to get £100 for a ticket, and sells it to John for £100. Both are happy.
John sells the ticket to Adam for £115. Both are happy.
Where's the harm - unless the club needs to confirm John isn't an undesirable?
Because John has a load of bots and load of different names and he buys all of the tickets so that noone else can and then he sells the tickets for £500. And John isn't the only one doing it.Club expects to get £100 for a ticket, and sells it to John for £100. Both are happy.
John sells the ticket to Adam for £115. Both are happy.
Where's the harm - unless the club needs to confirm John isn't an undesirable?
Samcat said:
The new NFC tickets on you phone have to be downloaded from the app, and scanned at the turnstiles, no way that I can see of touting it unless you give someone your phone.
I was talking to a Utd season ticket holder about this today and he said he has seen this happen on numerous occasions. The touts pulled out a stash of cheap phones with the tickets on in the pub pre game Samcat said:
If they resold it at original face value then fine, but why charge another £20 more, it doesn t seem fair (bearing in mind you have to be a member in the first place to access any of this)
You got what you paid back, they get to cover their costs and perhaps chip in a bit extra to the club. You don't do it that much so what's the big deal?Murph7355 said:
Samcat said:
If they resold it at original face value then fine, but why charge another £20 more, it doesn t seem fair (bearing in mind you have to be a member in the first place to access any of this)
You got what you paid back, they get to cover their costs and perhaps chip in a bit extra to the club. You don't do it that much so what's the big deal?48k said:
Murph7355 said:
Samcat said:
If they resold it at original face value then fine, but why charge another £20 more, it doesn t seem fair (bearing in mind you have to be a member in the first place to access any of this)
You got what you paid back, they get to cover their costs and perhaps chip in a bit extra to the club. You don't do it that much so what's the big deal?48k said:
There are a few issues with it.
- clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
Spurs screwed up big time aw years ago. They realised there were a lot of 'dead ' ST being used by various people and offered a amnesty. Ufortunately they did not abide by their own rules!! Let the 'illegals' keep the ST AND also the massive amount of loyslty points on it !!!!! This is why you see kids under 20 at the away games now, even though though Stevie wonder could see tyhey were not old enough to get the points under their own steam. - clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
One good thing about going digital is that it should stop those who are high point ST holders selling off the away tickets they dont want to cherry pick the Arsenal and Chelsea away games.
Couldsay more but you get the drift 'The rich ST get richer' etc
Murph7355 said:
48k said:
Murph7355 said:
Samcat said:
If they resold it at original face value then fine, but why charge another £20 more, it doesn t seem fair (bearing in mind you have to be a member in the first place to access any of this)
You got what you paid back, they get to cover their costs and perhaps chip in a bit extra to the club. You don't do it that much so what's the big deal?silverfoxcc said:
48k said:
There are a few issues with it.
- clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
Spurs screwed up big time aw years ago. They realised there were a lot of 'dead ' ST being used by various people and offered a amnesty. Ufortunately they did not abide by their own rules!! Let the 'illegals' keep the ST AND also the massive amount of loyslty points on it !!!!! This is why you see kids under 20 at the away games now, even though though Stevie wonder could see tyhey were not old enough to get the points under their own steam. - clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
One good thing about going digital is that it should stop those who are high point ST holders selling off the away tickets they dont want to cherry pick the Arsenal and Chelsea away games.
Couldsay more but you get the drift 'The rich ST get richer' etc
Ironically by introducing the 3 year sliding window for loyalty points they've fuelled the "grandfathering" of season tickets because ticket holders will be desparate for their seat to be used so that they keep their point earning up to date.
Edited by 48k on Thursday 23 July 09:56
silverfoxcc said:
48k said:
There are a few issues with it.
- clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
Spurs screwed up big time aw years ago. They realised there were a lot of 'dead ' ST being used by various people and offered a amnesty. Ufortunately they did not abide by their own rules!! Let the 'illegals' keep the ST AND also the massive amount of loyslty points on it !!!!! This is why you see kids under 20 at the away games now, even though though Stevie wonder could see tyhey were not old enough to get the points under their own steam. - clubs have a limited supply of tickets. If season tickets are "grandfathered" to family or friends because the owner is dead or no longer wants it, supporters on the waiting list miss out on getting one.
- clubs operate ticket exchanges, so unused tickets can be bought at face value. Touts ramp up the price so fans are paying too much.
- knowing who the owner of the ticket is reduces the chance of anti social behaviour. Buying a ticket from a tout means the club don't know the person
One good thing about going digital is that it should stop those who are high point ST holders selling off the away tickets they dont want to cherry pick the Arsenal and Chelsea away games.
Couldsay more but you get the drift 'The rich ST get richer' etc
Ended up going with a mate on the train, few beers etc. Got to the ground and it was stuffed full of families with kids. None of the regulars got tickets at all, so the ballot was rigged by the club.
48k said:
Yep. I'm a Spurs fan as you know and despite being a member for years there was never a chance of me getting near the top of the season ticket waiting list until the year we moved to Wembley when capacity was increased. And then there was never a chance of me getting away tickets because I had nowhere near the number of loyalty points needed. That was part of the reason for going down the corporate route because there's no concept of loyalty points and when we apply for away tickets we go in to a ballot.
Ironically by introducing the 3 year sliding window for loyalty points they've fuelled the "grandfathering" of season tickets because ticket holders will be desparate for their seat to be used so that they keep their point earning up to date.
When i got onto THST about it, they told me that in time i would have enough points.. i pointed out that at the beginning of each season every ST holder gets the same amount of points but it was the away games that build them up. and if i cannot get any chance of an away ticket then the gap will get bigger not smaller.. it is quite simple, how can you not see it?Ironically by introducing the 3 year sliding window for loyalty points they've fuelled the "grandfathering" of season tickets because ticket holders will be desparate for their seat to be used so that they keep their point earning up to date.
Edited by 48k on Thursday 23 July 09:56
So this is why you see kids under 10 regularly at away games while chaps like you and me have to rely on Match of the day..
Edited by silverfoxcc on Sunday 26th July 07:41
Whether you have an app ticket or paper ticket, then they should print the ticket holders name and address on.
You then turn up with a ticket and also your ID (Driving Licence/Passport etc) or if you don't have valid ID you bring something else prearranged with your details on. If you turn up at the gate with someone elses ID and the photo doesn't match then the ID goes straight into a shredder. That's my fantasy world.
You then turn up with a ticket and also your ID (Driving Licence/Passport etc) or if you don't have valid ID you bring something else prearranged with your details on. If you turn up at the gate with someone elses ID and the photo doesn't match then the ID goes straight into a shredder. That's my fantasy world.
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff