Are we alone in the Universe?
Discussion
I thought this was an interesting discussion by Prof Brian Cox. I was a little surprised at his best guess at the end. I’ve always thought the likely number of civilisations would be much higher given the sheer scale of the universe. But then again looking at our current state I can see where he’s coming from!
Both fascinating and scary in equal measure.
Both fascinating and scary in equal measure.
My frustration with that programme is that Brian Cox contends it is one, or the other.
There is (every) possibility, that life does exist elsewhere, just in this galaxy, but like us, has only developed so far.
As an example, whilst we have been into Space, we haven't (as a species) been very far - even both Voyager craft are now 'only' just into interstellar Space. Hardly off our own street, so to say. And headed in one direction.
With some 100 years of radio and television broadcasts, we barely scratch the definition of 'local' when you know that the Milky Way is 1000 times wider.
If, other species are at the same technological stage (approximately) as us, then there is still plenty of time for both of us to meet and hope that they speak the sort of American English we have been raised to expect.
When there is so much to wonder at, I wonder at why folks still seek to give definite answers to questions for which, for now at least, there can be no definitive answer.
There is (every) possibility, that life does exist elsewhere, just in this galaxy, but like us, has only developed so far.
As an example, whilst we have been into Space, we haven't (as a species) been very far - even both Voyager craft are now 'only' just into interstellar Space. Hardly off our own street, so to say. And headed in one direction.
With some 100 years of radio and television broadcasts, we barely scratch the definition of 'local' when you know that the Milky Way is 1000 times wider.
If, other species are at the same technological stage (approximately) as us, then there is still plenty of time for both of us to meet and hope that they speak the sort of American English we have been raised to expect.
When there is so much to wonder at, I wonder at why folks still seek to give definite answers to questions for which, for now at least, there can be no definitive answer.
Actual]Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. [Isaac Asimov said:
There is nothing remotely terrifying about either scenario. Unless you think everything in science fiction is true.
Hmmm. I think there's a third and far more likely answer.
Other civilisations probably do exist but they are simply sooooo far away as to make it irrelevant whether they exist or not as we will never be able to know either way. As we will never be able to know for sure we can safely disregard their existence and act as if they don't.
Other civilisations probably do exist but they are simply sooooo far away as to make it irrelevant whether they exist or not as we will never be able to know either way. As we will never be able to know for sure we can safely disregard their existence and act as if they don't.
dukeboy749r said:
My frustration with that programme is that Brian Cox contends it is one, or the other.
There is (every) possibility, that life does exist elsewhere, just in this galaxy, but like us, has only developed so far.
As an example, whilst we have been into Space, we haven't (as a species) been very far - even both Voyager craft are now 'only' just into interstellar Space. Hardly off our own street, so to say. And headed in one direction.
With some 100 years of radio and television broadcasts, we barely scratch the definition of 'local' when you know that the Milky Way is 1000 times wider.
If, other species are at the same technological stage (approximately) as us, then there is still plenty of time for both of us to meet and hope that they speak the sort of American English we have been raised to expect.
When there is so much to wonder at, I wonder at why folks still seek to give definite answers to questions for which, for now at least, there can be no definitive answer.
I didn’t think he attempted to give a definitive answer, just his best guesstimate based on what we know at this point. He also hopes that his guess is wrong! There is (every) possibility, that life does exist elsewhere, just in this galaxy, but like us, has only developed so far.
As an example, whilst we have been into Space, we haven't (as a species) been very far - even both Voyager craft are now 'only' just into interstellar Space. Hardly off our own street, so to say. And headed in one direction.
With some 100 years of radio and television broadcasts, we barely scratch the definition of 'local' when you know that the Milky Way is 1000 times wider.
If, other species are at the same technological stage (approximately) as us, then there is still plenty of time for both of us to meet and hope that they speak the sort of American English we have been raised to expect.
When there is so much to wonder at, I wonder at why folks still seek to give definite answers to questions for which, for now at least, there can be no definitive answer.
Lawro1 said:
Hmmm. I think there's a third and far more likely answer.
Other civilisations probably do exist but they are simply sooooo far away as to make it irrelevant whether they exist or not as we will never be able to know either way. As we will never be able to know for sure we can safely disregard their existence and act as if they don't.
That’s really what the discussion was about. I would have to watch it again, but I think he covered that point. Other civilisations probably do exist but they are simply sooooo far away as to make it irrelevant whether they exist or not as we will never be able to know either way. As we will never be able to know for sure we can safely disregard their existence and act as if they don't.
Perhaps the most interesting thing for me was the biological point he brought up near the end. Which he thinks is probably the biggest limitation to the likely number of advanced civilisations, rather than just loads of microbes.
that "life" exists somewhere else in the universe, galaxy or whatever really is without question, no matter where we look or under what circumstances we find life, searing hot temperatures or extreme cold, massive chemical barriers or emptiness does not seem to be a barrier to life.
The really interesting question is not does life exist but in what state does life exist and how developed is it (and where is it!)
The really interesting question is not does life exist but in what state does life exist and how developed is it (and where is it!)
simon_harris said:
that "life" exists somewhere else in the universe, galaxy or whatever really is without question, no matter where we look or under what circumstances we find life, searing hot temperatures or extreme cold, massive chemical barriers or emptiness does not seem to be a barrier to life.
The really interesting question is not does life exist but in what state does life exist and how developed is it (and where is it!)
The important question will be "Do they have any hot and spicy food or olympic quality athletes?"The really interesting question is not does life exist but in what state does life exist and how developed is it (and where is it!)
simon_harris said:
that "life" exists somewhere else in the universe, galaxy or whatever really is without question, no matter where we look or under what circumstances we find life, searing hot temperatures or extreme cold, massive chemical barriers or emptiness does not seem to be a barrier to life.
The really interesting question is not does life exist but in what state does life exist and how developed is it (and where is it!)
Of course this is almost certainly true. It’s the number of advanced space-faring civilisations which is the really interesting part. The really interesting question is not does life exist but in what state does life exist and how developed is it (and where is it!)
uktrailmonster said:
I thought this was an interesting discussion by Prof Brian Cox. I was a little surprised at his best guess at the end. I ve always thought the likely number of civilisations would be much higher given the sheer scale of the universe.
He's saying <1 per galaxy, but that's still billions (2 trillion galaxies, ish...) of civilisations in the universe.Bill said:
uktrailmonster said:
I thought this was an interesting discussion by Prof Brian Cox. I was a little surprised at his best guess at the end. I ve always thought the likely number of civilisations would be much higher given the sheer scale of the universe.
He's saying <1 per galaxy, but that's still billions (2 trillion galaxies, ish...) of civilisations in the universe.I firmly believe that life does exist elsewhere. I just think the universe is too huge for that not to be the case.
Ultimately though, there is always the slightly pessimistic and depressing thought in the background that the sheer scale of the universe will make it very difficult to us to ever make contact with other intelligent species - not with any current technologies anyhow.
It would take 25,000 to 50,000 years for a craft travelling at the 'speed limit of the universe' (the speed of light) just to exit our galaxy. And we have nothing that can travel anywhere near that speed, or is likely to even get close to it over the next few generations. And even if we did build something that could travel that fast ...... the data from the Hubble telescope suggests we are in one of 2 trillion+ galaxies so it would be virtually impossible to explore any substantial amount within relative human timeframes.
Barring the discovery of some kind of wormhole technology which can get us crazy distances in short times, or aliens contacting us first, I think it's going to take humanity a long time to find any other evolved life. We as a species could be long gone before then.
Ultimately though, there is always the slightly pessimistic and depressing thought in the background that the sheer scale of the universe will make it very difficult to us to ever make contact with other intelligent species - not with any current technologies anyhow.
It would take 25,000 to 50,000 years for a craft travelling at the 'speed limit of the universe' (the speed of light) just to exit our galaxy. And we have nothing that can travel anywhere near that speed, or is likely to even get close to it over the next few generations. And even if we did build something that could travel that fast ...... the data from the Hubble telescope suggests we are in one of 2 trillion+ galaxies so it would be virtually impossible to explore any substantial amount within relative human timeframes.
Barring the discovery of some kind of wormhole technology which can get us crazy distances in short times, or aliens contacting us first, I think it's going to take humanity a long time to find any other evolved life. We as a species could be long gone before then.
I think its likely we are not alone and I will leave one of my favourite authors to explain:
Douglas Adams said:
Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
andDouglas Adams said:
Looking up into the night sky is looking into infinity — distance is incomprehensible and therefore meaningless
It does seem to be that the chance that there is life is very very minimal with the "conditions" we need being so infinitesimally small. That said, everything is so incredibly vast you'd have to think that it would have happened somewhere.
Plus who knows if a planet managed to have the conditions to create 14ft helium sucking beings a trillion lightyears from here?
Plus who knows if a planet managed to have the conditions to create 14ft helium sucking beings a trillion lightyears from here?
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