Whats a reasonable life for a car battery?
Discussion
In my household there is a BMW E92 320d which we all use for local and long journeys, it's a pretty good car with excellent MPG and nice to drive, but we did have the following issues with the battery..
Long version...
When the car was 2 years and 11 months old it went for an MOT at the BMW where we asked the car to be checked as the car no longer stop started, the rear heated rear window had stopped working and a host of other convenience features were not working. We were told it was the battery getting low, and this was due to us not doing enough long journeys in the car AND leaving the stereo on when the car was off. The stereo isn't left on, but sometimes when leaving the car one of us may be on the bluetooth, when you switch the phone to 'handset' and walk off, alarm the car etc the stereo/bluetooth stays lit up for 5/10 mins or so. I have no idea why. So at this point were told more long jouneys and everything will be fine. They were informed at this point that the journeys have never changed since buying the car but we would see how it goes. The car never got any better and even stopped holding the time, the time has to be re-entered and rarely lasts longer than 2/3 journeys.
Fast forward 8 months and the cars in for a service at a different dealer and we point this out again, it's never got any better, the fault was clearly reported and logged during the vehicles original warranty (its in extended warranty now) so can they just sort it out please. Yet again we were given the same response, too many short journeys etc blah blah - we point out the vehicles journeys have never changed and the battery must be defective. The service advisor assures me this is impossible, their lads never get anything wrong, the batterys been thoroughly tested etc etc blah blah. Reluctantly they agree to take another look at it in 2 weeks.
So 2 weeks later they tell me after much testing the battery is defective and needs to be replaced. It's not covered by the warranty due to my driving style and I had to pay £100 excess to be told this - even though i pointed out that these issues have been going on since the original warranty period.
BMW's response is that they will not pay for anything, the battery may have got defective after the car was 3 years old, even if not it is a wear and tear issue, they won't pay, simple as. I tell them their car is therefore not fit for purpose and if i'd been told about this, the car would not have been purchased. I even point out the symptoms have got no worse since it was first reported and it's only due to me pushing the dealer that they finally told me the battery was defective, so it was very likely defective when I first reported it. They tell me no, no and then no again. And my improper usage still somehow amounts to around 12k miles a year.
A new battery from BMW fitted is £400, it can only be done there due to the coding. Now I know modern cars are more electrically demanding, but the only battery ever changed in our household was on a 9 year old carisma, should a battery really be failing so soon? I've written to the manufacturer etc but as said before they don't care. Am i being unrealistic in my expectations for a new battery to be fitted? I know I've been lazy in reporting the issue for a second time.
Short Story.
Battery fails on car when 2 years and 11 months old, manufacturer fob off with rubbish - eventually admitting the battery has gone 'bad' when retesting 8 months later. Refuse to pay for a new one. Should a battery fail so soon?
Assuming I was annoyed enough to take this further, how would I do it - assuming theres any point.
Thanks in advance!
Long version...
When the car was 2 years and 11 months old it went for an MOT at the BMW where we asked the car to be checked as the car no longer stop started, the rear heated rear window had stopped working and a host of other convenience features were not working. We were told it was the battery getting low, and this was due to us not doing enough long journeys in the car AND leaving the stereo on when the car was off. The stereo isn't left on, but sometimes when leaving the car one of us may be on the bluetooth, when you switch the phone to 'handset' and walk off, alarm the car etc the stereo/bluetooth stays lit up for 5/10 mins or so. I have no idea why. So at this point were told more long jouneys and everything will be fine. They were informed at this point that the journeys have never changed since buying the car but we would see how it goes. The car never got any better and even stopped holding the time, the time has to be re-entered and rarely lasts longer than 2/3 journeys.
Fast forward 8 months and the cars in for a service at a different dealer and we point this out again, it's never got any better, the fault was clearly reported and logged during the vehicles original warranty (its in extended warranty now) so can they just sort it out please. Yet again we were given the same response, too many short journeys etc blah blah - we point out the vehicles journeys have never changed and the battery must be defective. The service advisor assures me this is impossible, their lads never get anything wrong, the batterys been thoroughly tested etc etc blah blah. Reluctantly they agree to take another look at it in 2 weeks.
So 2 weeks later they tell me after much testing the battery is defective and needs to be replaced. It's not covered by the warranty due to my driving style and I had to pay £100 excess to be told this - even though i pointed out that these issues have been going on since the original warranty period.
BMW's response is that they will not pay for anything, the battery may have got defective after the car was 3 years old, even if not it is a wear and tear issue, they won't pay, simple as. I tell them their car is therefore not fit for purpose and if i'd been told about this, the car would not have been purchased. I even point out the symptoms have got no worse since it was first reported and it's only due to me pushing the dealer that they finally told me the battery was defective, so it was very likely defective when I first reported it. They tell me no, no and then no again. And my improper usage still somehow amounts to around 12k miles a year.
A new battery from BMW fitted is £400, it can only be done there due to the coding. Now I know modern cars are more electrically demanding, but the only battery ever changed in our household was on a 9 year old carisma, should a battery really be failing so soon? I've written to the manufacturer etc but as said before they don't care. Am i being unrealistic in my expectations for a new battery to be fitted? I know I've been lazy in reporting the issue for a second time.
Short Story.
Battery fails on car when 2 years and 11 months old, manufacturer fob off with rubbish - eventually admitting the battery has gone 'bad' when retesting 8 months later. Refuse to pay for a new one. Should a battery fail so soon?
Assuming I was annoyed enough to take this further, how would I do it - assuming theres any point.
Thanks in advance!
Battery only needs to be re-coded if there's a change of brand/Ah capacity.
If you replace like for like, nothing needs doing, since the coding only tells the system what charging parameters to apply for the battery type & capacity used.
Batteries are a consumable, but 3 years would be considered on the shorter side of life expectancy.
Before you replace it, it might be worth plugging in a good battery charger to see if that helps. If you've a few cells duff, then it's game over but you can buy a battery and have it fitted/"coded" by any indy BMW garage, since the car is out of warranty.
If you feel particularly aggrieved, try your luck with BMW UK to see if they'll entertain a goodwill, but persevering for 8 months after raising it, doesn't make it seem like it was that much of an issue really, so be prepared to defend why you did for so long.
If you replace like for like, nothing needs doing, since the coding only tells the system what charging parameters to apply for the battery type & capacity used.
Batteries are a consumable, but 3 years would be considered on the shorter side of life expectancy.
Before you replace it, it might be worth plugging in a good battery charger to see if that helps. If you've a few cells duff, then it's game over but you can buy a battery and have it fitted/"coded" by any indy BMW garage, since the car is out of warranty.
If you feel particularly aggrieved, try your luck with BMW UK to see if they'll entertain a goodwill, but persevering for 8 months after raising it, doesn't make it seem like it was that much of an issue really, so be prepared to defend why you did for so long.
I’d say about 5 years is reasonable, any more than that is a bonus.
This will be shortened by long periods of non-use or lost of short journeys – especially if there’s cold weather while the battery isn’t fully charged.
It’s last longer when used regularly on long runs to keep them full’o’juice.
This will be shortened by long periods of non-use or lost of short journeys – especially if there’s cold weather while the battery isn’t fully charged.
It’s last longer when used regularly on long runs to keep them full’o’juice.
In my experience batteries last about 5 years before they need changing. However, as with everything, it's what happens during it's life that has an impact on longevity (like everything else). So on car A the battery will last 10 years and car B ,same model, 3 years. Of course I am not accounting her for any possible product defects.
A battery will deteriorate over time no matter how favourable its life.
In my car I know the battery will be replaced before next winter. My Symptoms have been occasional "low voltage" messages and lazy sounding starting in cold weather. While I have not carried out a load test my voltages (when checked with a mulitimeter) suggest replacement is due. Some may say you need to have proper load test to check properly, and you do, but with my battery 5 years old in november and cold voltage of 11.6V, I will have it replaced.
Everything they have said about the battery sounds about right IMHO
Hope this helps
Duck
A battery will deteriorate over time no matter how favourable its life.
In my car I know the battery will be replaced before next winter. My Symptoms have been occasional "low voltage" messages and lazy sounding starting in cold weather. While I have not carried out a load test my voltages (when checked with a mulitimeter) suggest replacement is due. Some may say you need to have proper load test to check properly, and you do, but with my battery 5 years old in november and cold voltage of 11.6V, I will have it replaced.
Everything they have said about the battery sounds about right IMHO
Hope this helps
Duck
amirzed said:
In my household there is a BMW E92 320d which we all use for local and long journeys, it's a pretty good car with excellent MPG and nice to drive, but we did have the following issues with the battery..
Long version...
When the car was 2 years and 11 months old it went for an MOT at the BMW where we asked the car to be checked as the car no longer stop started, the rear heated rear window had stopped working and a host of other convenience features were not working. We were told it was the battery getting low, and this was due to us not doing enough long journeys in the car AND leaving the stereo on when the car was off. The stereo isn't left on, but sometimes when leaving the car one of us may be on the bluetooth, when you switch the phone to 'handset' and walk off, alarm the car etc the stereo/bluetooth stays lit up for 5/10 mins or so. I have no idea why. So at this point were told more long jouneys and everything will be fine. They were informed at this point that the journeys have never changed since buying the car but we would see how it goes. The car never got any better and even stopped holding the time, the time has to be re-entered and rarely lasts longer than 2/3 journeys.
Fast forward 8 months and the cars in for a service at a different dealer and we point this out again, it's never got any better, the fault was clearly reported and logged during the vehicles original warranty (its in extended warranty now) so can they just sort it out please. Yet again we were given the same response, too many short journeys etc blah blah - we point out the vehicles journeys have never changed and the battery must be defective. The service advisor assures me this is impossible, their lads never get anything wrong, the batterys been thoroughly tested etc etc blah blah. Reluctantly they agree to take another look at it in 2 weeks.
So 2 weeks later they tell me after much testing the battery is defective and needs to be replaced. It's not covered by the warranty due to my driving style and I had to pay £100 excess to be told this - even though i pointed out that these issues have been going on since the original warranty period.
BMW's response is that they will not pay for anything, the battery may have got defective after the car was 3 years old, even if not it is a wear and tear issue, they won't pay, simple as. I tell them their car is therefore not fit for purpose and if i'd been told about this, the car would not have been purchased. I even point out the symptoms have got no worse since it was first reported and it's only due to me pushing the dealer that they finally told me the battery was defective, so it was very likely defective when I first reported it. They tell me no, no and then no again. And my improper usage still somehow amounts to around 12k miles a year.
A new battery from BMW fitted is £400, it can only be done there due to the coding. Now I know modern cars are more electrically demanding, but the only battery ever changed in our household was on a 9 year old carisma, should a battery really be failing so soon? I've written to the manufacturer etc but as said before they don't care. Am i being unrealistic in my expectations for a new battery to be fitted? I know I've been lazy in reporting the issue for a second time.
Short Story.
Battery fails on car when 2 years and 11 months old, manufacturer fob off with rubbish - eventually admitting the battery has gone 'bad' when retesting 8 months later. Refuse to pay for a new one. Should a battery fail so soon?
Assuming I was annoyed enough to take this further, how would I do it - assuming theres any point.
Thanks in advance!
Long version...
When the car was 2 years and 11 months old it went for an MOT at the BMW where we asked the car to be checked as the car no longer stop started, the rear heated rear window had stopped working and a host of other convenience features were not working. We were told it was the battery getting low, and this was due to us not doing enough long journeys in the car AND leaving the stereo on when the car was off. The stereo isn't left on, but sometimes when leaving the car one of us may be on the bluetooth, when you switch the phone to 'handset' and walk off, alarm the car etc the stereo/bluetooth stays lit up for 5/10 mins or so. I have no idea why. So at this point were told more long jouneys and everything will be fine. They were informed at this point that the journeys have never changed since buying the car but we would see how it goes. The car never got any better and even stopped holding the time, the time has to be re-entered and rarely lasts longer than 2/3 journeys.
Fast forward 8 months and the cars in for a service at a different dealer and we point this out again, it's never got any better, the fault was clearly reported and logged during the vehicles original warranty (its in extended warranty now) so can they just sort it out please. Yet again we were given the same response, too many short journeys etc blah blah - we point out the vehicles journeys have never changed and the battery must be defective. The service advisor assures me this is impossible, their lads never get anything wrong, the batterys been thoroughly tested etc etc blah blah. Reluctantly they agree to take another look at it in 2 weeks.
So 2 weeks later they tell me after much testing the battery is defective and needs to be replaced. It's not covered by the warranty due to my driving style and I had to pay £100 excess to be told this - even though i pointed out that these issues have been going on since the original warranty period.
BMW's response is that they will not pay for anything, the battery may have got defective after the car was 3 years old, even if not it is a wear and tear issue, they won't pay, simple as. I tell them their car is therefore not fit for purpose and if i'd been told about this, the car would not have been purchased. I even point out the symptoms have got no worse since it was first reported and it's only due to me pushing the dealer that they finally told me the battery was defective, so it was very likely defective when I first reported it. They tell me no, no and then no again. And my improper usage still somehow amounts to around 12k miles a year.
A new battery from BMW fitted is £400, it can only be done there due to the coding. Now I know modern cars are more electrically demanding, but the only battery ever changed in our household was on a 9 year old carisma, should a battery really be failing so soon? I've written to the manufacturer etc but as said before they don't care. Am i being unrealistic in my expectations for a new battery to be fitted? I know I've been lazy in reporting the issue for a second time.
Short Story.
Battery fails on car when 2 years and 11 months old, manufacturer fob off with rubbish - eventually admitting the battery has gone 'bad' when retesting 8 months later. Refuse to pay for a new one. Should a battery fail so soon?
Assuming I was annoyed enough to take this further, how would I do it - assuming theres any point.
Thanks in advance!
Edited by DuckDuck on Wednesday 25th April 11:18
You are certifiable if you are going to pay £400 for a battery!
Im no expert on very modern cars (Ive never heard of coding a battery) Get to the motor factors buy a battery of the same size/amp hours for £40-50 and fit it yourself, even if there is some charging code to be entered its not gonna matter a jot- a lead acid battery is used because it doesnt have a 'memory' and will accept varying voltages to charge it. Older cars never had any special system to match the charge to the battery model so even if this is something coming to cars, batteries are still available in plenty that were designed for older cars without this feature.
Im no expert on very modern cars (Ive never heard of coding a battery) Get to the motor factors buy a battery of the same size/amp hours for £40-50 and fit it yourself, even if there is some charging code to be entered its not gonna matter a jot- a lead acid battery is used because it doesnt have a 'memory' and will accept varying voltages to charge it. Older cars never had any special system to match the charge to the battery model so even if this is something coming to cars, batteries are still available in plenty that were designed for older cars without this feature.
Decky_Q said:
You are certifiable if you are going to pay £400 for a battery!
Im no expert on very modern cars (Ive never heard of coding a battery) Get to the motor factors buy a battery of the same size/amp hours for £40-50 and fit it yourself, even if there is some charging code to be entered its not gonna matter a jot- a lead acid battery is used because it doesnt have a 'memory' and will accept varying voltages to charge it. Older cars never had any special system to match the charge to the battery model so even if this is something coming to cars, batteries are still available in plenty that were designed for older cars without this feature.
I'm afraid it is no longer that simple with modern cars. the electronic systems are now so complex that the battery type and condition is utterly crucial to the performance of the whole vehicle in general.Im no expert on very modern cars (Ive never heard of coding a battery) Get to the motor factors buy a battery of the same size/amp hours for £40-50 and fit it yourself, even if there is some charging code to be entered its not gonna matter a jot- a lead acid battery is used because it doesnt have a 'memory' and will accept varying voltages to charge it. Older cars never had any special system to match the charge to the battery model so even if this is something coming to cars, batteries are still available in plenty that were designed for older cars without this feature.
To save weight batteries are made smaller and lighter; as are alternators, but they have to work very much harder. The cost of this is unreliabilty and shortened life.
I recently fitted an alternator to a Range Rover 2.7 TDi. This job was done by feel, because you couldn't even see it it is so tightly fitted in the engine bay. It was £720.00 plus VAT!! The battery had been done just a few months previously. The vehicle is only 2 years old and low mileage.
I constantly replace batteries in Jaguars. They are huge and expensive and if you get 3 years out of them you are doing well.
The thing is, it's not like the good old days when the first sign of a bad battery was simply that it wouldn't hold a charge and turn the engine over. Nowadays they will usually start the engine, but you quickly develop all sorts of electronic control system problems because the battery is working with no reserve left.
By the way, despite what I said, £400 is outrageous for a battery.
The cure is to run an nice old motor!
J
My Jag is doing bloody well then. Bought Sept 2005, (touch wood) still on original battery.
As for the BMW, my Dad had a 3 series in the late 90's. Petrol 1.6, wouldn't start on regular occasions. BMW insisted battery was not at fault, so he jumped up and down in the showroom.
Eventually service manager relented to doing a 'discharge test' which involved parking the car in the workshop and leaving the lights on, after a full battery charge. Apparantly they expect a battery to run the lights for over a set time (extra is a bonus). Mechanic put lights on and you could see him do a double take. As he walked away you could see the lights begin to dim. They had previously done one of the old fashioned 'shorting' tests where they put a load over the terminals and look for bubbles, and battery showed OK. Only after this would they pay under warranty.
But I suspect the OP has waived his right to waraanty due to accepting the answers until out of warranty.
As for the BMW, my Dad had a 3 series in the late 90's. Petrol 1.6, wouldn't start on regular occasions. BMW insisted battery was not at fault, so he jumped up and down in the showroom.
Eventually service manager relented to doing a 'discharge test' which involved parking the car in the workshop and leaving the lights on, after a full battery charge. Apparantly they expect a battery to run the lights for over a set time (extra is a bonus). Mechanic put lights on and you could see him do a double take. As he walked away you could see the lights begin to dim. They had previously done one of the old fashioned 'shorting' tests where they put a load over the terminals and look for bubbles, and battery showed OK. Only after this would they pay under warranty.
But I suspect the OP has waived his right to waraanty due to accepting the answers until out of warranty.
Podie said:
hman said:
Podie said:
Snake oil?
telling the bmw on board systems of a new battery size to adjust the charging parameters.Ergo, if you replace the battery with the same size / capacity battery, do they need changing?
Or is that the true problem rather than the battery? Could it be that the symptom says battery, but really its the computer programming?
daz3210 said:
So what happens as the battery deteriorates over time? Surely the parameters change if only slightly.
Or is that the true problem rather than the battery? Could it be that the symptom says battery, but really its the computer programming?
Surely if the parameters change over time, the system has a learning ability... so why can't it learn the new battery?Or is that the true problem rather than the battery? Could it be that the symptom says battery, but really its the computer programming?
Or have BMW done a sneaky?
Still makes me wonder what would happen if you paid Halfords £15 to fit it...
EDIT - £6.99 - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
Edited by Podie on Wednesday 25th April 12:25
In the olden days, when a battery started showing signs of dying (usually the first cold start of the autumn) then it would die over time, and regular recharging would eke a few more weeks or months out of it.
Nowadays, they tend to die Tommy Cooper-style (just like that!). Game over, get new battery.
I'd suspect that the OP's car - not the battery - had the original problem because the battery struggled on so long (the battery will now be dead due to being in a state of low charge for so long, which doesn't do them any good
).
Far be it from me to state the bleedin' obvious (and I'm in no way being condescending to the OP or any other posters on here
), but if the car has an alternator drive belt is it tensioned correctly??? It's usually the basics what get ignored on these dark arts modern cars, because the car can be 'plugged in' etc cue stories like this 
.
Nowadays, they tend to die Tommy Cooper-style (just like that!). Game over, get new battery.
I'd suspect that the OP's car - not the battery - had the original problem because the battery struggled on so long (the battery will now be dead due to being in a state of low charge for so long, which doesn't do them any good
). Far be it from me to state the bleedin' obvious (and I'm in no way being condescending to the OP or any other posters on here
), but if the car has an alternator drive belt is it tensioned correctly??? It's usually the basics what get ignored on these dark arts modern cars, because the car can be 'plugged in' etc cue stories like this .The latest batteries for BMW are are AGM batteries (absorbed glass matt ) which are expensive. I might be wrong but I think i read somewhere they are specifically used alongside brake regen technologies as better. Taken from Yuasa
My car will switch of secondary circuits if it thinks the car is in danger of not having enough juice to start. I think the coding has to do with ensuring it gets this right amongst other things IMO
Duck
"Yuasa AGM automotive batteries are designed to meet the latest German OEM standard where there has been considerable field experience in mass-market stop-start microhybrid vehicles since their volume introduction in 2007/8. AGM technology is currently being adopted as a standard fitment on most high CO2 cars where stop-start, alternator and brake regeneration management require the operating state of the battery to be reduced so that fuel savings are maximised to reduce vehicle CO2 emissions and benefit from a reduction in taxation."
daz3210 said:
So what happens as the battery deteriorates over time? Surely the parameters change if only slightly.
Or is that the true problem rather than the battery? Could it be that the symptom says battery, but really its the computer programming?
Or is that the true problem rather than the battery? Could it be that the symptom says battery, but really its the computer programming?
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