Which Battery Conditioner/Charger
Discussion
My CLS63 will be laid up for the winter and I'd like to keep the battery in good shape whilst I'm at it.
I'm buying a new battery today and was looking at the Ctek chargers which say you can leave them on for months and they keep the battery topped up. Two questions regarding this though.
Firstly, I won't have the option of leaving it plugged in for weeks at a time, most likely a day at a time instead. Is this the right kind of charger for this use? The car will be covered but I can run a lead out through boot and tuck it away until it is required but is a Ctek going to charge the battery in half a day or a full day?
Secondly, if it's a yes, which one to go for? I've looked at the spec of the battery but not really sure which bits to relate to the battery it uses. It's a 6.2litre engine so has a hefty battery so not sure if the cheapest Ctek would do the job or not.
Any advice would be really helpful. Thanks.
I'm buying a new battery today and was looking at the Ctek chargers which say you can leave them on for months and they keep the battery topped up. Two questions regarding this though.
Firstly, I won't have the option of leaving it plugged in for weeks at a time, most likely a day at a time instead. Is this the right kind of charger for this use? The car will be covered but I can run a lead out through boot and tuck it away until it is required but is a Ctek going to charge the battery in half a day or a full day?
Secondly, if it's a yes, which one to go for? I've looked at the spec of the battery but not really sure which bits to relate to the battery it uses. It's a 6.2litre engine so has a hefty battery so not sure if the cheapest Ctek would do the job or not.
Any advice would be really helpful. Thanks.
Alex_225 said:
Firstly, I won't have the option of leaving it plugged in for weeks at a time, most likely a day at a time instead. Is this the right kind of charger for this use?
When you plug the charger in, it'll "look at" the battery, and figure out what it needs - charge or maintenance or trickle or...Alex_225 said:
The car will be covered but I can run a lead out through boot and tuck it away until it is required but is a Ctek going to charge the battery in half a day or a full day?
How much is it needing to put in at any given time? It's not as if you're going from flat every day, is it? All you're doing is topping up what the alarm and memories have consumed overnight. It'll be fine.Alex_225 said:
Secondly, if it's a yes, which one to go for? I've looked at the spec of the battery but not really sure which bits to relate to the battery it uses. It's a 6.2litre engine so has a hefty battery so not sure if the cheapest Ctek would do the job or not.
The lower end ones are a bit simpler in terms of the conditioning/trickling modes. MXS3.8 is the entry point for the properly "clever" ones, and is going to be perfectly adequate for £50 or so - I've not long bought one for the garage. MXS5.0 is about a tenner more, and is what I have in the camper, for charging the leisure battery - for that, the extra oomph is handy, because we may be consuming power whilst charging.I'd never buy a ctek again, i've had an XS3600 and an MX5.0, and BOTH of them after around 18 months, started overcharging my batteries.
They should charge until battery hits 14.4v and near zero current before changing modes, but both of them now carrying on charging well past 15v (and do this for weeks on end) and basically boil any battery they're connected to.
On the subject of "modes" or "stages", they're not as clever/smart as the marketing would have us believe, for example the 3600 charges to 14.4, stops charging (maintenance mode) and waits for the voltage to drop below 12.8v before charging again. All this stuff about stages, is basically what would happen anyway when you apply a constant voltage across a battery, they just twist it cleverly into a marketing strategy.
The annoying thing is that most people wouldn't realise this was happening, because they wouldn't check, but overcharging lead acid batteries is very dangerous, hydrogen gas is explosive and also if charging on vehicle, over voltage is going to cause damage to either the voltage regulation or to the electronics parts themselves.
lyonspride said:
I'd never buy a ctek again, i've had an XS3600 and an MX5.0, and BOTH of them after around 18 months, started overcharging my batteries.
They should charge until battery hits 14.4v and near zero current before changing modes, but both of them now carrying on charging well past 15v (and do this for weeks on end) and basically boil any battery they're connected to.
On the subject of "modes" or "stages", they're not as clever/smart as the marketing would have us believe, for example the 3600 charges to 14.4, stops charging (maintenance mode) and waits for the voltage to drop below 12.8v before charging again. All this stuff about stages, is basically what would happen anyway when you apply a constant voltage across a battery, they just twist it cleverly into a marketing strategy.
The annoying thing is that most people wouldn't realise this was happening, because they wouldn't check, but overcharging lead acid batteries is very dangerous, hydrogen gas is explosive and also if charging on vehicle, over voltage is going to cause damage to either the voltage regulation or to the electronics parts themselves.
Mine have always been very good, both personally (10 yrs of use) and professionally (20 car showroom) My only gripe is the control button tends to go sticky and eventually fail. I read a fix for this using an intermittent switch but not done it myself. They should charge until battery hits 14.4v and near zero current before changing modes, but both of them now carrying on charging well past 15v (and do this for weeks on end) and basically boil any battery they're connected to.
On the subject of "modes" or "stages", they're not as clever/smart as the marketing would have us believe, for example the 3600 charges to 14.4, stops charging (maintenance mode) and waits for the voltage to drop below 12.8v before charging again. All this stuff about stages, is basically what would happen anyway when you apply a constant voltage across a battery, they just twist it cleverly into a marketing strategy.
The annoying thing is that most people wouldn't realise this was happening, because they wouldn't check, but overcharging lead acid batteries is very dangerous, hydrogen gas is explosive and also if charging on vehicle, over voltage is going to cause damage to either the voltage regulation or to the electronics parts themselves.
PositronicRay said:
Mine have always been very good, both personally (10 yrs of use) and professionally (20 car showroom) My only gripe is the control button tends to go sticky and eventually fail. I read a fix for this using an intermittent switch but not done it myself.
Have you checked the charging voltage? If it's running higher than 14.4v and not switching modes, you could be in danger of causing damage.LIke I say, 2 chargers both doing the same thing, at first I thought it must be something else, but i've since done extensive testing. The 3600 is behaving better since I took it apart and recalibrated it, but in doing so I very much lost respect for the brand when I saw the shoddy build quality and lack of anything that suggests it lives up to it's "smart" marketing hype. Seriously I could build better myself and in fact I intend to do so............. The MX5.0 is under warranty and that's only reason I haven't torn it to pieces.
I will say that the MX5.0 eased the switch issue by remembering it's settings and not requiring the user to cycle through the modes with the button at all once it has been set. In other words reducing the need to use the button AND given what it does, there has to be more "intelligence" built into it, perhaps even a processor.
The reason the XS3600 button goes faulty is because the PCB was supported by PVC/rubber spacers, which gradually squash over time and move the PCB away from the button, leaving the button unable to push the switch on the PCB.
I do think they're probably still the best you can get, but only because nobody else can make better and still compete with their price+reputation.
Edited by lyonspride on Sunday 3rd September 13:33
lyonspride said:
I'd never buy a ctek again, i've had an XS3600 and an MX5.0, and BOTH of them after around 18 months, started overcharging my batteries.
They should charge until battery hits 14.4v and near zero current before changing modes, but both of them now carrying on charging well past 15v (and do this for weeks on end) and basically boil any battery they're connected to.
On the subject of "modes" or "stages", they're not as clever/smart as the marketing would have us believe, for example the 3600 charges to 14.4, stops charging (maintenance mode) and waits for the voltage to drop below 12.8v before charging again. All this stuff about stages, is basically what would happen anyway when you apply a constant voltage across a battery, they just twist it cleverly into a marketing strategy.
The XS3600 is a lower-end model, though. It's not a properly smart one, like the MXS range (and even the smaller capacities in that range vary - it's only the 3.6 and 5.0 upwards that get properly smart.They should charge until battery hits 14.4v and near zero current before changing modes, but both of them now carrying on charging well past 15v (and do this for weeks on end) and basically boil any battery they're connected to.
On the subject of "modes" or "stages", they're not as clever/smart as the marketing would have us believe, for example the 3600 charges to 14.4, stops charging (maintenance mode) and waits for the voltage to drop below 12.8v before charging again. All this stuff about stages, is basically what would happen anyway when you apply a constant voltage across a battery, they just twist it cleverly into a marketing strategy.
Ctek are quite open about what the various modes do - it even shows the voltage and current profiles on the front of the charger.
I've been pretty happy with my C-Tek, it gets used most weekends to keep the Lotus topped up (my commute isn't really enough to keep the battery in good health) and it's been used to restore batteries which I would have otherwise given up for dead. I've also left it plugged in for months on end when I've been away and it seems to keep everything healthy.
I think mine is a 5.0.
I think mine is a 5.0.
lyonspride said:
PositronicRay said:
Mine have always been very good, both personally (10 yrs of use) and professionally (20 car showroom) My only gripe is the control button tends to go sticky and eventually fail. I read a fix for this using an intermittent switch but not done it myself.
Have you checked the charging voltage? If it's running higher than 14.4v and not switching modes, you could be in danger of causing damage.LIke I say, 2 chargers both doing the same thing, at first I thought it must be something else, but i've since done extensive testing. The 3600 is behaving better since I took it apart and recalibrated it, but in doing so I very much lost respect for the brand when I saw the shoddy build quality and lack of anything that suggests it lives up to it's "smart" marketing hype. Seriously I could build better myself and in fact I intend to do so............. The MX5.0 is under warranty and that's only reason I haven't torn it to pieces.
I will say that the MX5.0 eased the switch issue by remembering it's settings and not requiring the user to cycle through the modes with the button at all once it has been set. In other words reducing the need to use the button AND given what it does, there has to be more "intelligence" built into it, perhaps even a processor.
The reason the XS3600 button goes faulty is because the PCB was supported by PVC/rubber spacers, which gradually squash over time and move the PCB away from the button, leaving the button unable to push the switch on the PCB.
I do think they're probably still the best you can get, but only because nobody else can make better and still compete with their price+reputation.
Edited by lyonspride on Sunday 3rd September 13:33
i've heard a few scare stories from mechanics about both optimate and ctek. given that they're potentially left on for weeks unattended that's a concern. biggest issue is them getting confused and over-charging / destroying a good battery.
New policy - all my optimates are now on a timer for 2 hours a day. if the battery can't be in good health with that i have a different problem.
i also only use .8 amp units, so less chance of damage. useless for full charging of course, but fine for maintenance.
New policy - all my optimates are now on a timer for 2 hours a day. if the battery can't be in good health with that i have a different problem.
i also only use .8 amp units, so less chance of damage. useless for full charging of course, but fine for maintenance.
If it is not a security issue then I would just remove the battery or disconnect it - then charge when back.
I have never had problems with the Optimate conditioner and have had it connected for ages to batteries as I moved around a lot. Was great to come back to the UK a year later and the car start first time.
But it is very slow to charge car batteries, up to 3 days.
Surprised about the horror stories from mechanics as the Optimate is the only piece of kit I ever recommend.
It was designed for motorcycle electrics and is therefore very, very gentle on the system. But fair enough, my Opmate is over 25 years old and maybe the so called 'modernizations' since have done exactly the opposite in the usual chase for profit at low cost.
I have never had problems with the Optimate conditioner and have had it connected for ages to batteries as I moved around a lot. Was great to come back to the UK a year later and the car start first time.
But it is very slow to charge car batteries, up to 3 days.
Surprised about the horror stories from mechanics as the Optimate is the only piece of kit I ever recommend.
It was designed for motorcycle electrics and is therefore very, very gentle on the system. But fair enough, my Opmate is over 25 years old and maybe the so called 'modernizations' since have done exactly the opposite in the usual chase for profit at low cost.
Interesting. I had an Optimate and found it couldn't charge the large Bosch battery for my M3. So I purchased a Ctek with suffucient output. This worked great with the battery left in the car for about a month. However, one morning I went to start the car after not using it for a couple of weeks and it just about started, battery was not fully charged. I drove the car for the weekend and re-connected the Ctek. Checked that all was ok a day later and the error light was on. Replaced the battery and put the Ctek back on to see what would happen, a day later, error light is on. Swapped the battery with an old one I had, exactly the same.
I have returned the Ctek to shop and they have tested charging batteries and it works fine...........
Anyone know if there is any chance that something in the cars alarm/central locking could cause the charger to error ? I was using it as a trickle/float charger with the battery connected to the car (as the guff says is fine).
I have returned the Ctek to shop and they have tested charging batteries and it works fine...........
Anyone know if there is any chance that something in the cars alarm/central locking could cause the charger to error ? I was using it as a trickle/float charger with the battery connected to the car (as the guff says is fine).
RLK500 said:
Interesting. I had an Optimate and found it couldn't charge the large Bosch battery for my M3. So I purchased a Ctek with suffucient output. This worked great with the battery left in the car for about a month. However, one morning I went to start the car after not using it for a couple of weeks and it just about started, battery was not fully charged. I drove the car for the weekend and re-connected the Ctek. Checked that all was ok a day later and the error light was on. Replaced the battery and put the Ctek back on to see what would happen, a day later, error light is on. Swapped the battery with an old one I had, exactly the same.
I have returned the Ctek to shop and they have tested charging batteries and it works fine...........
Anyone know if there is any chance that something in the cars alarm/central locking could cause the charger to error ? I was using it as a trickle/float charger with the battery connected to the car (as the guff says is fine).
I found the supplied cable/connector can be temperamental, it can go high contact resistance, which causes slow charging and the CTEK seem to have a crude timer that looks for a battery taking too long to reach a certain voltage and then triggers the error light.I have returned the Ctek to shop and they have tested charging batteries and it works fine...........
Anyone know if there is any chance that something in the cars alarm/central locking could cause the charger to error ? I was using it as a trickle/float charger with the battery connected to the car (as the guff says is fine).
It could also of course be that it was doing what mine have done, trying to overcharge and the excess voltage was being shunted by the regulator in the alternator circuit, so it never reached the voltage expected by the ctek.
Of course it could just be a duff battery.
Edited by lyonspride on Wednesday 6th September 14:02
I have an Accumate and its sits on all the time I'm not using the car. On the occasions I have forgotten to plug it in after a drive or unplugged the mains for something else and not reconnected it, it does take several days to charge to full so it must be pretty low output. It doesn't have any fancy mode display, simple red/green status indicator so I have to trust it is doing whatever mode is appropriate. On my car (TVR Tuscan), the alarm is pretty old school so does drain pretty quickly if not on the conditioner and the starter motor is only marginally powerful enough to crank the sizeable engine when cold so you do notice any low battery charge very easily. Previous owner had the battery changed every 2-3 years and I haven't had to do that so it seems to work well enough for me. It sits outside in an approved waterproof box under the car.
Edited by Speed 3 on Wednesday 6th September 18:24
Edited by Speed 3 on Wednesday 6th September 18:25
lyonspride said:
I found the supplied cable/connector can be temperamental, it can go high contact resistance, which causes slow charging and the CTEK seem to have a crude timer that looks for a battery taking too long to reach a certain voltage and then triggers the error light.
It could also of course be that it was doing what mine have done, trying to overcharge and the excess voltage was being shunted by the regulator in the alternator circuit, so it never reached the voltage expected by the ctek.
That's very interesting as I am pretty sure that when I first used it I just used the crocodile clips, not the little fly lead that connects directly to the battery. I wonder if that is the issue as I suspect the shop will just be doing the same and not using the fly lead.It could also of course be that it was doing what mine have done, trying to overcharge and the excess voltage was being shunted by the regulator in the alternator circuit, so it never reached the voltage expected by the ctek.
RLK500 said:
That's very interesting as I am pretty sure that when I first used it I just used the crocodile clips, not the little fly lead that connects directly to the battery. I wonder if that is the issue as I suspect the shop will just be doing the same and not using the fly lead.
I had issue with the 2 pin connector, contacts were dirty and stretched (obvious when you see how it works) from being pulled/unplugged, snipe nose pliers sorted the stretched contacts and then I used a little contact cleaner, but overall it's not a great design for a connector.Gassing Station | Home Mechanics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff