Rover SD1 starter motor question

[HealeyV8]

Hi I have a rover SD1 V8 fitted to my Jensen Healey. Don't usually drive it in wet weather but had to drive home yesterday in very heavy rain.
This morning went to start it and the bendix in the starter motor clicked once and then nothing more.

So car jacked up. I've got voltage from the battery in the thick wire bolted to the solinoid. I have voltage to the trigger wire that goes to a male spade terminal on the solinoid when someone turns key to crank position.

Now the questions:-
The male spade connector the trigger wire is linked to is the nearest the ground. There is another male spade just above it with nothing connected anyone know what this is for?

I assume the big bolt terminals on the solinoid, there are two one nearest the ground has the battery feed, is the higher one the feed to the starter like a relay? So if I connected them directly the starter should spin? Tried that and still nothing.

With that test not having any effect do I assume the solinoid is toast?
PITA if so because the starter was a reconditioned one I only bought last year in May so probably just out of guarentee by 4 months.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Auntieroll]

Try earthing the engine directly to the battery with a good quality jump lead, assuming the battery is fully charged.
The main feed to the solenoid can sometimes corrode inside the insulation so the jump lead trick could be tried in order to eliminate that possibility, same goes for all the heavy current wiring,ie battery to chassis/ engine earth leads

Edited by Auntieroll on Sunday 7th October 17:38

[imagineifyeswill]

When you put 12 volts to the trigger wire terminal you should hear the click of the pinion shooting forward to engage with the ring gear, if it doesnt then you would assume faulty solenoid, at the same time as the pinion engaging the contacts inside the solenoid should connect the two large terminals causing the starter motor to spin. Crossing the two large terminals with a spanner or such like should cause the motor to spin, if this doesnt happen then you would suspect the motor itself,but it is quite rare for both functions to fail at the same time so if neither of these tests produce any response then possibly there is a bad earth to the engine block. the simplest test for this is take a good jump lead, one end connected to the battery negative the other to a good earth point on the engine block, if this gives no result it would appear starter motor and solenoid are toast, although solenoids are available seperately its usually more cost effective to to replace complete starter unit.

[HealeyV8]

OK thanks I'm going out to the garage and try the jump lead to engine earth check

[dynosoar]

The spare terminal is sometimes called the shunt circuit.
This is designed to give a full fat 12v to the coil on ballasted systems.
The point being that a ballasted system runs at about 9 volts but when the starter is drawing the whole system will experience a voltage drop making a poor spark through the normal feed. So the shunt gives full voltage to the coil to improve the spark under cranking (only) which in actual fact will be about 9 volts due to the voltage drop.

If was working before without it then won’t have anything to do with your current issue.

A

[HealeyV8]

OK I tried the earth to engine test. No joy I tested the engine and it's properly earthed. Next final check tonight is make sure starter motor is fully earthed just in case.
When I bought the recon starter I had very few options as I had to have one with the solenoid underneath (SD1 / TR8 / MGB GTV8) as space is very tight.
I spoke to the guy I bought it off and they only do 6 months warranty, he said the recons are all very old to start with so no more warranty than that.
He suggested I by a new Hi-torq LMS055 which he said would definately fit.

Anyone used one of these in a TR8 or MGB as I think I have about the same small space to fit it?

[paintman]

Might be an idea to have your current starter motor checked & rebuilt if necessary by a different firm.
Had the sm on my 86 RRC V8 done earlier this year. Failed solenoid was engaging but not supplying full voltage to the motor.
Bit far maybe but I've used these for years & have yet to have any issues with their work:
Greens Starter Motors & Alternators, 256 Victoria Road East, Leicester LE5 0LF
Phone: [phone]

Just to check the obvious, you HAVE fully charged the battery with a battery charger? It's first action on any vehicle with electrical issues & not worth carrying out any exploratory work until that's been verified.

[GreenV8S]

HealeyV8 said:

Anyone used one of these in a TR8 or MGB as I think I have about the same small space to fit it?

I don't know how well they would fit MG/Healey, but I've seen TVRs that use the same RV8 upgraded to the more modern high torque geared starters which are smaller and more efficient that the OEM starter motors. They work out more expensive but definitely worth considering if you have reliability or space concerns with the the older starter motors.

[Auntieroll]

Could be something as simple as a sticky brush (ooer missus! ), Try having someone turn the key to the start position while you tap the starter body with a soft faced mallet ,(fairly hard)if successful the starter will need to be stripped and the brush holders cleaned. HTH.

[HealeyV8]

Right get the mocking out of the way! After spending an afternoon replacing the starter motor with a new RAC318 Hi-Torq one I got the same result. So between the RAC guy and me we failed to see that it was a battery problem. In my defence my battery charger only took 20 minutes to show from charging to maintaining a charge. But it must be the battery surely.
I hooked up my jump leads to my other car and now the starter clicks and spins but doesn't seem to be engaging the fly wheel.
I was told it was for the Rover V8 and there doesn't seem to be any adjustment.
Please tell me they've sent me the wrong starter or it's duff.


I've got it mounted with the barrel thing the other way up IE pointing towards the ground surely that wouldn't make a difference?
Hope so cause I don't think it would fit the other way.

[GreenV8S]

Check the pinion diameter and depth against the original starter motor.

A good battery should supply about 12.5V to the starter, dropping to 9-10V when it starts cranking. If you don't see those sort of voltages at the starter motor, you have a battery/wiring problem. If your starter is getting the right voltage but not engaging or not cranking, the problem is in the starter motor/solenoid assembly.

[Penelope Stopit]

Wrong rotation??????

[HealeyV8]

Thank god! Just a battery problem. I feel like such an idiot but live and learn?
The battery had literally blown, when I removed it , it had a bulge in one side.
I can only assume it was causing impedance when on jump leads from my other car.

Thanks everyone for their input, really appreciated.

[GreenV8S]

Good result. I'm intrigued to know what caused the spinning-but-not-engaging behaviour. Is the new starter the pre-engaged or inertia reel type?

[HealeyV8]

I believe it is pre-engaged, if that means solenoid and starter all together.
I can only assume that the blown battery was causing impedance when the jump leads were attached and not allowing all the voltage through to the starter. It confused me as well as the voltmeter on the jumped car was showing 14 volts.

All I know is with the new battery it fully engages with the flywheel and spins the engine.