Petrol Engine Won't Start (Suzuki Grand Vitara 2004 1.6)

[arotabi]

Some help or pointers would be much appreciated.

Background:
Car had been running fine before cutting out and refusing to start.
It stopped while driving as I clutched to put in neutral as coming to a stop and it cut out (just faded out no stutter).

The engine turns fine on key turn - no abnormal sounds.
All belts and wires intact and look ok.

Tests:
Fuel pump looks good. On key turn it builds pressure.
Fuel pressure holds for at least five minutes after ignition is turned off (I didn't wait to see how long exactly it took for pressure to lower).
All injectors click when turning the engine (listed with stethoscope).
All spark plugs spark when turning the engine. The spark plugs are nearing end of life and the actual sparks don't look particularly bright (just a personal opinion from what I've seen many years ago and on some of my bike engines).

I'm going to set spark plugs as a first step but I'm wondering if it's dodgy plugs would the engine just die and not start?
I would expect it to run rough for a bit at least or fire up roughly at least for a bit?

No faults registered on a code reader.

Should add the spark plugs are wet and smell of petrol when I take them out after turning the engine - which suggests the injectors are fine?

I've not been under the bonnet so much in recent years so thought process is probably rusty.
Are my presumptions reasonable?
Do you have ideas or suggestions?

Cheers for any pointers.

[E-bmw]

The obvious one to rule out would be cambelt failure.

I would expect a fault code, but then all code readers are not created equal and some are next to useless.

Before you spend any money do the basics, some of which you have already started.

Does it sound like it is even trying to fire?

[xtruss]

Maybe some easystart in the intlet to rule out fuel issues, if should try and fire if you have spark and the engine is mechanically sound.

[arotabi]

When I remove the oil filler cap and turn the engine - I can see the expected movements so cambelt is still intact.
It could of course be in such bad shape or skipped a tooth or two that timing is out now I suppose will have to check this.

That's a good shout for easystart - I'll try that in the morning before going further with the cambelt.

Cheers.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

If you haven't got any easystart use carb/brake cleaner instead. Does it sound like it's got compression? How about the crank position sensor playing up?

[paintman]

You state the plugs 'are nearing end of life' 'the actual sparks don't look particularly bright' and 'I'm going to set spark plugs as a first step'.
For what they cost just replace with a brand new set & have done with them as a possible issue.

[GreenV8S]

The original problem might have been caused by anything causing the engine to stumble as it went to idle - for example a dirty throttle plate, sticking idle speed control actuator, failed PCV check valve. Wet plugs seems to point to an ignition issue. Whatever the reason, they would be enough to stop it starting afterwards. If the battery is good and you haven't already tried this, it would be worth cranking for ~20 seconds with the throttle fully open. On many engines this engages 'flood clear' mode which cuts fuel. Clean plugs would be a slower but more reliable approach.

[mighty kitten]

Check the boots on the plugs carefully for pin holes , had a non start vitara yrs ago with two boots pinholes and arcing which you can’t see

[arotabi]

Time hasn't been on my side this week!

I've done the following so far:

I changed the sparkplugs as they needed doing anyway. Checked them each for spark before putting them in.
The boots look in decent condition and no holes that would cause a short/arc.

I tried easystart straight in the air intake and cranked - just turns and no start.
I also tried disconnecting the injector wiring and tried easystart again - just turns & no start.

It's pointing more towards ignition (or timing of ignition I suppose).

I removed the cam position sensor and can see the cam turning when I crank the engine so the timing belt is still in place.
I could be wrong but I'm leaning towards it can't have slipped so many teeth to stop it starting (specially with the way it stopped when it was under no load).

It feels like it has compression the way it's turning over but I'll check compression on each cylinder at the weekend.

Any other ideas with what else I should look for or test would be appreciated.

Cheers.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

Have you got a spark? Also have you confirmed that the crank position sensor is working? Without it, it won't know when to tell the ignition system to spark.

[arotabi]

Thanks for the tips so far - I've been away for a bit and back again trying to get this thing to start.

So far:
Compression is good.
New spark plugs fitted - I can see spark as the engine is turned.
Fuel pressure is good.
All injectors clicking.
New cam & crank position sensors fitted.
I can see cam and crank turning with the sensors removed (suggesting timing belt intact).
Easystart makes no difference. I tried this with the injectors wiring connected and disconnected (to avoid flooding).

Short of throwing the little Suzuki in the skip - any other idea or suggestions?

[GreenV8S]

If you put clean plugs in then try to start it, are the plugs wet or dry immediately afterwards?

[arotabi]

GreenV8S said:

If you put clean plugs in then try to start it, are the plugs wet or dry immediately afterwards?

They're wet.

[Megaflow]

An engine needs 5 things to run:

1) Air
2) Fuel
3) Spark
4) Compression
5) Timing

You have confirmed it has got 1-4. The next place to look would be the timing to see if the cam belt has jumped a tooth.

A mate had a BMW of some description, that exhibited all the same symptoms, I gave up on it, it got towed to a garage and the timing chain had jumped a tooth, known issue on that particular engine.

[trickywoo]

arotabi said:

Easystart makes no difference. I tried this with the injectors wiring connected and disconnected (to avoid flooding).

When you say easystart makes no difference do you mean literally nothing happens?

If you’ve got a spark the engine has to fire a little off the easystart. If it’s doing nothing I’d say look at the ignition side again especially that you say the plugs are wet.

[Penelope Stopit]

Megaflow said:

An engine needs 5 things to run:

1) Air
2) Fuel
3) Spark
4) Compression
5) Timing

You have confirmed it has got 1-4. The next place to look would be the timing to see if the cam belt has jumped a tooth.

A mate had a BMW of some description, that exhibited all the same symptoms, I gave up on it, it got towed to a garage and the timing chain had jumped a tooth, known issue on that particular engine.

Same opinion, it all adds up, unless what you class as a good spark isn't a good spark

[Tyre Smoke]

If it has everything it needs to fire but won't then it has to be timing.

I had a Citroen C5 2.0hdi that snapped its cambelt. All back together and it refused to start. Spent ages trying to work it all out, even took the head off to check the bores.

Turned out the cam had moved on the sprocket- impossible apparently as it was a shrink fit to the end of the camshaft. Anyway, enough to stop it firing up.

Has to be something similar on the Suzuki.