Timing belt tensioner gauge

[binsie2003]

Does anyone recognise this timing belt tensioning gauge? I believe it was for for Ford CVH models but maybe others.

I'm after information in setting up and using as well as what the guage increments mean?

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Steve

Edited by binsie2003 on Sunday 1st November 15:52

Edited by binsie2003 on Sunday 1st November 15:55

Edited by binsie2003 on Sunday 1st November 15:56

[imagineifyeswill]

I have been a mechanic for 45 years and never used a timing belt tension gauge. The majority of modern timing belt set ups are either automatic tensioners or a pointer system on the tensioner for correct tension. In the era of CVH engines if you could get 90 degrees twist on the belt after tightening the tension was fine.

[rigga]

I think I used one of those just the once ..... then as the poster above, it wasn't needed again.

[rigga]

If the aviation industry was all that, nothing would ever fall off them ....... but they do.

[LimSlip]

Zulu 10 said:

With all due respect to the last two posters, having come from the aviation industry I’m sceptical of anyone who claims to be able to do any job without the tools specified by the design authority...

I suspect a bit more experience working on cars would change your mind. Sometimes you absolutely need a manufacturers special tool to do a job, but very often there are other ways to achieve the goal.

[rustednut]

Zulu 10 said:

I’ve got a Burroughs tensioning tool for the Lotus 907 series engines, but I find it far more accurate and repeatable to set tension using a spectrum analyser application on a mobile phone – you simply ‘twang’ the belt to measure its natural frequency.

With all due respect to the last two posters, having come from the aviation industry I’m sceptical of anyone who claims to be able to do any job without the tools specified by the design authority...

Interesting.

You are sceptical of anybody not using the tools specified, but are happy to use an app on a mobile phone?

[Chris32345]

Zulu 10 said:

I absolutely agree that there are often other ways to achieve the goal, hence my use of spectrum analysis to achieve the correct tension.

But a claim to be able to correctly tension belts by feel, is just like those who claim to be able to set torque by feel, and is simply laziness, which in a professional organisation would be a disciplinary matter.

There's a reason why there are torque measuring gauges in the walkway between the tool stores and most hangars.

you don't do most by feel you don't even have to set the tension on a lol these days

[Richard-D]

Zulu 10 said:

LimSlip said:

.....Patronising stuff..... Sometimes you absolutely need a manufacturers special tool to do a job, but very often there are other ways to achieve the goal.

I absolutely agree that there are often other ways to achieve the goal, hence my use of spectrum analysis to achieve the correct tension.

But a claim to be able to correctly tension belts by feel, is just like those who claim to be able to set torque by feel, and is simply laziness, which in a professional organisation would be a disciplinary matter.

There's a reason why there are torque measuring gauges in the walkway between the tool stores and most hangars.

I also like the reasoning that "of course I'm doing it right, I've been doing this for 40 years". How many years do you have to do something to be incapable of error? You could be doing it wrong for every one of those years and be completely unaware.

There're plenty of them in the aviation industry too. They just refuse to be accept that there could be something they don't know. The number of times I've made someone take something apart (because they were too experienced to ask/wait for a stage check) and found it to be wrong is ludicrous.

[LimSlip]

Zulu 10 said:

I absolutely agree that there are often other ways to achieve the goal, hence my use of spectrum analysis to achieve the correct tension.

But a claim to be able to correctly tension belts by feel, is just like those who claim to be able to set torque by feel, and is simply laziness, which in a professional organisation would be a disciplinary matter.

There's a reason why there are torque measuring gauges in the walkway between the tool stores and most hangars.

Apologies if that came across as patronising, it wasn't my intention. Aircraft are not cars, and it doesn't seem like you have professional experience on the latter. With aircraft you go by the book or likely get kicked out, and for good reason.

With sufficient experience you can absolutely torque non-critical fasteners by hand, the fact that millions of cars are not falling to pieces on a regular basis shows this, since I have yet to see a garage break out a torque wrench to reattach e.g. a horn bracket or a piece of trim. The same experience also means you know when a torque wrench is actually required, e.g. on critical fasteners within the engine.

In the real world when you are working on some rusty old banger with corroded fasteners a torque wrench doesn't do you a lot of good even if you felt compelled to use it. Unlike aircraft maintenance where fasteners are regularly replaced due to life or corrosion damage, the majority of fasteners on a car get reused unless new ones are supplied with a replacement part.

[finishing touch]

Zulu 10 said:

Have you looked at this page:
http://workshop-manuals.com/ford/fiesta_1996_08.19... ?
It describes how to use the gauge on a CVH engine, and on the same website there are manuals for many other Ford vehicles, so you should be able to see other applications for the tool.

There’s a diagram here https://ustroistvo-avtomobilya.ru/dvigatel/izmeren... (albeit the words are in Russian so put it through a translator), showing a comparison between other tools, but you’ll find that the calibration is generally in the manufacturer’s abstract units, rather than SI units.

I’ve got a Burroughs tensioning tool for the Lotus 907 series engines, but I find it far more accurate and repeatable to set tension using a spectrum analyser application on a mobile phone – you simply ‘twang’ the belt to measure its natural frequency.

With all due respect to the last two posters, having come from the aviation industry I’m sceptical of anyone who claims to be able to do any job without the tools specified by the design authority...

I have a 907 in a 7 and I used the twist longest run 90deg between thumb and fingers method.

It's worked for me.

[Evoluzione]

The twist method is idiotic. It relies on every human having the same strength and for every single one to be able to apply exactly the same amount of twisting force to a belt.
This is never going to happen.

[finishing touch]

Evoluzione said:

The twist method is idiotic. It relies on every human having the same strength and for every single one to be able to apply exactly the same amount of twisting force to a belt.
This is never going to happen.

I also use the same common sense/experience approach to virtually every nut & bolt I tighten.

You can't reach for a torque wrench every time nut meets bolt.

[imagineifyeswill]

Modern twin cam engines run with the belts so tensioned that you can barely move them far less twist them. Belt technology has improved so much that they hardly ever break nowadays, failure is ussually down to a collapsed pulley bearing due to the tension forces.

In the era of CVH engines where this thread started belts werent nearly so highly tensioned and a 90 degree twist was the standard the majority of mechanics used.

[rustednut]

imagineifyeswill said:

Modern twin cam engines run with the belts so tensioned that you can barely move them far less twist them. Belt technology has improved so much that they hardly ever break nowadays, failure is ussually down to a collapsed pulley bearing due to the tension forces.

In the era of CVH engines where this thread started belts werent nearly so highly tensioned and a 90 degree twist was the standard the majority of mechanics used.

Exactly this. back in the days of the (80's) cvh (vauxhall used the water pump as the tensioner), then a twist of the belt to check was adequate.

Can't think of a modern car where you can even use a gauge to test.

And they are so tightly fitted its is often a struggle to get the belt onto all the pulleys, let alone check its tension, which most of the time are automatic adjust anyway.

But it is the pulleys and tensioners that usually cause any issues, very rare it is the belt that fails.

[Evoluzione]

rustednut said:

imagineifyeswill said:

Modern twin cam engines run with the belts so tensioned that you can barely move them far less twist them. Belt technology has improved so much that they hardly ever break nowadays, failure is ussually down to a collapsed pulley bearing due to the tension forces.

In the era of CVH engines where this thread started belts werent nearly so highly tensioned and a 90 degree twist was the standard the majority of mechanics used.

Exactly this. back in the days of the (80's) cvh (vauxhall used the water pump as the tensioner), then a twist of the belt to check was adequate.

Can't think of a modern car where you can even use a gauge to test.

And they are so tightly fitted its is often a struggle to get the belt onto all the pulleys, let alone check its tension, which most of the time are automatic adjust anyway.

But it is the pulleys and tensioners that usually cause any issues, very rare it is the belt that fails.

So after you've set it to your 90' I get my other half in and she manages 60'. Then I come over and get it to twist 120' which one of us is correct?

[markcoznottz]

rustednut said:

imagineifyeswill said:

Modern twin cam engines run with the belts so tensioned that you can barely move them far less twist them. Belt technology has improved so much that they hardly ever break nowadays, failure is ussually down to a collapsed pulley bearing due to the tension forces.

In the era of CVH engines where this thread started belts werent nearly so highly tensioned and a 90 degree twist was the standard the majority of mechanics used.

Exactly this. back in the days of the (80's) cvh (vauxhall used the water pump as the tensioner), then a twist of the belt to check was adequate.

Can't think of a modern car where you can even use a gauge to test.

And they are so tightly fitted its is often a struggle to get the belt onto all the pulleys, let alone check its tension, which most of the time are automatic adjust anyway.

But it is the pulleys and tensioners that usually cause any issues, very rare it is the belt that fails.

Sure was. It wasn’t 90 degrees, it was ‘not quite’ 90 degrees along its longest run. For the doubters, it was a highly successful method. It comes down to experience, and having a feel for the job. On an xe20, you knew when the belt was too tight as it used to whine it’s head off.