Treating underbody rust
Discussion
My son's recently passed his test and bought his first car - a nice little 10 year old 1.2 Ford Fiesta. It drives nicely, came with a fresh MoT and Service (needed new front disc's, had one rear spring changed (I'd have changed both but hey ho) for the MoT).
But as a 'Ford guy' at his age too, I'm really disappointed at the rust prevention applied to these cars. His cousin also has a Fiesta about the same age and having spent some time underneath that, this appears the norm on these cars.
So I've spent this morning with him using various wire brushes (hand and drill mounted) removing the (thankfully surface only) rust and have painted the beam axle, trailing arms etc with Krust.
My question is - what would be best to apply over this? I have available Hammerite paint, a tin of Halfords enamel paint, and Waxoyl (Hammerite) underseal. I realise now the surface rust is present we'll never really be able to get rid of it, but we can certainly try and slow it down.
If I finish with a paint I would cover the area (when dry) with ACF50, which I use on my car & bike.
Should we use one of the paints and also the underseal?
Thoughts and opinions welcome.
Finally, anyone changed a cambelt on one of these? Looks tight for space - are any special tools required?
Cheers,
But as a 'Ford guy' at his age too, I'm really disappointed at the rust prevention applied to these cars. His cousin also has a Fiesta about the same age and having spent some time underneath that, this appears the norm on these cars.
So I've spent this morning with him using various wire brushes (hand and drill mounted) removing the (thankfully surface only) rust and have painted the beam axle, trailing arms etc with Krust.
My question is - what would be best to apply over this? I have available Hammerite paint, a tin of Halfords enamel paint, and Waxoyl (Hammerite) underseal. I realise now the surface rust is present we'll never really be able to get rid of it, but we can certainly try and slow it down.
If I finish with a paint I would cover the area (when dry) with ACF50, which I use on my car & bike.
Should we use one of the paints and also the underseal?
Thoughts and opinions welcome.
Finally, anyone changed a cambelt on one of these? Looks tight for space - are any special tools required?
Cheers,
I would never use "underseal" on a car. There's a real risk of water getting between the underseal and the metal/paint leading to even more and quicker rusting.
Personally, I'd use Hammerite paint. Bear in mind that once a car is rusting it's virtually impossible to stop it - although you have a decent chance of slowing it down.
Personally, I'd use Hammerite paint. Bear in mind that once a car is rusting it's virtually impossible to stop it - although you have a decent chance of slowing it down.
If you're back to metal, your best bet is an acidic rust converter such as Kurust, a oxygen sealing paint (with primer if it needs it) and then an external paint layer for mechanical protection. Various paint suppliers will sell a set of paints designed to layer together like that. I'm not convinced by the 'all in one' paints that claim to do it all in one layer. I would definitely avoid any underseal type coating on top of the paint since these just accelerate corrosion after they fail. A waxoil type coating is better than underseal, but shouldn't be necessary with the right paint system.
As above, rust converter, then paint.
Then because there will be hundreds of hidden areas where the rust has started you'll never access properly, sills wheelarches and all crevices you need to apply some sort of oil product liberally, not only to the outside but through any holes you can find into cavities, a messy horrible job but needs doing.
Some recommend chain lube for this purpose, cheap enough if you buy a 5 litre bottle, more expensive comes ACF50 circa £70/80 for 4 litre bottle (i use this annually,and see you are already a user) how you fire spray these products into cavities is the problem, more expensive still are Bilt Hambers cavity wax aerosols but they are easy to use with probes that never block up.
I'd be inclined to buy 3 or 4 BH's cavity was aerosols to do the insides and hidden areas, and then either chain lube or ACF50 or one of the many other anti rust oil based products which creep and seep into existing rust.
This year for the first time i tried running heated ACF50 through a pressurised garden sprayer meant for fence spraying creosote, it worked a treat but for goodness sake cover your drive in an old carpet or something and wear old clothes a hat and goggles and a mask...just as you would if waxoyling, it sprayed on very quickly, did my Prado's twice yearly top up in about 15 minutes.
If you do buy BH's cavity waxes, suggest cleaning out and keeping the probes after use with white spirit, with a bit of jiggery pokery they could be made to work for spraying heated oil via the garden sprayer, that's next on my agenda fitting a BH probe to my garden sprayer.
As others i'd be wary of covering rust in waxoyl type stuff, it'll look the dogs danglers when done but not once its start peeling off in a year or two.
Then because there will be hundreds of hidden areas where the rust has started you'll never access properly, sills wheelarches and all crevices you need to apply some sort of oil product liberally, not only to the outside but through any holes you can find into cavities, a messy horrible job but needs doing.
Some recommend chain lube for this purpose, cheap enough if you buy a 5 litre bottle, more expensive comes ACF50 circa £70/80 for 4 litre bottle (i use this annually,and see you are already a user) how you fire spray these products into cavities is the problem, more expensive still are Bilt Hambers cavity wax aerosols but they are easy to use with probes that never block up.
I'd be inclined to buy 3 or 4 BH's cavity was aerosols to do the insides and hidden areas, and then either chain lube or ACF50 or one of the many other anti rust oil based products which creep and seep into existing rust.
This year for the first time i tried running heated ACF50 through a pressurised garden sprayer meant for fence spraying creosote, it worked a treat but for goodness sake cover your drive in an old carpet or something and wear old clothes a hat and goggles and a mask...just as you would if waxoyling, it sprayed on very quickly, did my Prado's twice yearly top up in about 15 minutes.
If you do buy BH's cavity waxes, suggest cleaning out and keeping the probes after use with white spirit, with a bit of jiggery pokery they could be made to work for spraying heated oil via the garden sprayer, that's next on my agenda fitting a BH probe to my garden sprayer.
As others i'd be wary of covering rust in waxoyl type stuff, it'll look the dogs danglers when done but not once its start peeling off in a year or two.
Edited by Smint on Sunday 19th September 22:03
Licensed aircraft engineer gave me good advice on use of Kurust etc.
Always decant liquid into a container, discard unused and do not push brush into original container.
Reason is you transfer rust into bottle and chemical continues to work on the rust reducing the effectiveness of the solution.
Always decant liquid into a container, discard unused and do not push brush into original container.
Reason is you transfer rust into bottle and chemical continues to work on the rust reducing the effectiveness of the solution.
So we've painted over the Kurust with the Hammerite. On top of that we've painted the enamel paint. I used these because I had them.
It doesn't look half bad and hopefully has the desired effect of slowing down further corrosion. We're doing the front of the car now (I don't have access to a lift, only my Restoration Ramps, so have to do the car in halves).
Interesting remark on decanting the Kurust, and it would seem to make sense. I've been keeping the tops off aerosols for a little while now (normally because I've got limited garage space and if I've knocked a can off the shelf it invariably cracks the cap) and I find these are good to use for pouring small amounts of paints etc. into.
I'll look into POR15 - I've not used this before. And look at what's best for the cavities. I've used Waxoyl on a few occasions in the past and particularly remember one occasion when the car was in the sun and there were little pools of Waxoyl below the sill/door drainage holes! At least the seams will have been well coated.
Once the front of the car's done, we'll cover it with the ACF50 - I'm just about to order some more now.
But I still can't get over how poorly the car's been protected from the factory. I realise it's in manufacturers interests to sell more cars, but have cars really become such disposable items?
ETA I have in the past used a heavy content zinc paint - the tin weighed way more than you'd expect a tin of that size to. Unfortunately I've recently run out of that but would use it as a top coat again, if I had cause to buy some more.
I also have a garden sprayer type container for applying the ACF50. I usually stand it in a bucket of hot water (as hot as the tap and a kettle of boiling water can make it) for 5-10mins before using it. I find it sprays better, and I can't justify getting a compressor to apply this.
It doesn't look half bad and hopefully has the desired effect of slowing down further corrosion. We're doing the front of the car now (I don't have access to a lift, only my Restoration Ramps, so have to do the car in halves).
Interesting remark on decanting the Kurust, and it would seem to make sense. I've been keeping the tops off aerosols for a little while now (normally because I've got limited garage space and if I've knocked a can off the shelf it invariably cracks the cap) and I find these are good to use for pouring small amounts of paints etc. into.
I'll look into POR15 - I've not used this before. And look at what's best for the cavities. I've used Waxoyl on a few occasions in the past and particularly remember one occasion when the car was in the sun and there were little pools of Waxoyl below the sill/door drainage holes! At least the seams will have been well coated.
Once the front of the car's done, we'll cover it with the ACF50 - I'm just about to order some more now.
But I still can't get over how poorly the car's been protected from the factory. I realise it's in manufacturers interests to sell more cars, but have cars really become such disposable items?
ETA I have in the past used a heavy content zinc paint - the tin weighed way more than you'd expect a tin of that size to. Unfortunately I've recently run out of that but would use it as a top coat again, if I had cause to buy some more.
I also have a garden sprayer type container for applying the ACF50. I usually stand it in a bucket of hot water (as hot as the tap and a kettle of boiling water can make it) for 5-10mins before using it. I find it sprays better, and I can't justify getting a compressor to apply this.
Edited by Cooper1999 on Saturday 25th September 10:49
Edited by Cooper1999 on Saturday 25th September 10:52
Cooper,
It's a 10yo modern, and your son is, ?18? You have done a good, cheap job by DiY and using up paint you already had. How long will Son keep this old banger? If he doesn't change it for three years, he's doing well - is it worth spending more money on Waxoyl etc, £25 for 5L, plus the tool to apply it?
Especially after the excellent work you have done already!
JOhn
It's a 10yo modern, and your son is, ?18? You have done a good, cheap job by DiY and using up paint you already had. How long will Son keep this old banger? If he doesn't change it for three years, he's doing well - is it worth spending more money on Waxoyl etc, £25 for 5L, plus the tool to apply it?
Especially after the excellent work you have done already!
JOhn
Cooper1999 said:
ETA I have in the past used a heavy content zinc paint - the tin weighed way more than you'd expect a tin of that size to. Unfortunately I've recently run out of that but would use it as a top coat again, if I had cause to buy some more.
Zinc based paints protect galvanically - that means they have to be in electrical contact with the metal (painted directly onto it) to be effective. As a top coat it will probably still give you a reasonably tough coating but you'd be missing most of its benefits.I've just done a similar job with my Z4.
It wasn't looking too bad but I didn't want it to get any worse, so cleaned up the surface rust and converted it then used Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint where I could reach.
Sprayed Dinitrol ML Cavity Wax everywhere I couldn't and up in any cavities then.
I'll probably go with a Lanolin oil based product such as Lanoguard when it next needs doing though.
It wasn't looking too bad but I didn't want it to get any worse, so cleaned up the surface rust and converted it then used Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint where I could reach.
Sprayed Dinitrol ML Cavity Wax everywhere I couldn't and up in any cavities then.
I'll probably go with a Lanolin oil based product such as Lanoguard when it next needs doing though.
Birr97 said:
I've just done a similar job with my Z4.
It wasn't looking too bad but I didn't want it to get any worse, so cleaned up the surface rust and converted it then used Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint where I could reach.
Sprayed Dinitrol ML Cavity Wax everywhere I couldn't and up in any cavities then.
I'll probably go with a Lanolin oil based product such as Lanoguard when it next needs doing though.
That looks very well done. Can Lanoguard be sprayed upon existing rust protection as you intend to do in future or are you going to strip the existing rust protection before Lanoguard application?It wasn't looking too bad but I didn't want it to get any worse, so cleaned up the surface rust and converted it then used Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint where I could reach.
Sprayed Dinitrol ML Cavity Wax everywhere I couldn't and up in any cavities then.
I'll probably go with a Lanolin oil based product such as Lanoguard when it next needs doing though.
Also, i hear Lanoguard is made from the oils of Fleece of sheep so can attract rodents which can cause other havoc - chew electrics, etc. Any truth to that which you're aware of?
Koolkat969 said:
That looks very well done. Can Lanoguard be sprayed upon existing rust protection as you intend to do in future or are you going to strip the existing rust protection before Lanoguard application?
Also, i hear Lanoguard is made from the oils of Fleece of sheep so can attract rodents which can cause other havoc - chew electrics, etc. Any truth to that which you're aware of?
It looks better than it did so I'm happy with it.Also, i hear Lanoguard is made from the oils of Fleece of sheep so can attract rodents which can cause other havoc - chew electrics, etc. Any truth to that which you're aware of?
I do need to clean up the exhaust, couple of drips on there.
From what I've read it should be okay to put over the top of other rust protection, I'll worry about it in a year's time though.
I've also seen some mention of rodent issues, I think I should be more worried about my fellow countrymen than them though.
Birr97 said:
Koolkat969 said:
That looks very well done. Can Lanoguard be sprayed upon existing rust protection as you intend to do in future or are you going to strip the existing rust protection before Lanoguard application?
Also, i hear Lanoguard is made from the oils of Fleece of sheep so can attract rodents which can cause other havoc - chew electrics, etc. Any truth to that which you're aware of?
It looks better than it did so I'm happy with it.Also, i hear Lanoguard is made from the oils of Fleece of sheep so can attract rodents which can cause other havoc - chew electrics, etc. Any truth to that which you're aware of?
I do need to clean up the exhaust, couple of drips on there.
From what I've read it should be okay to put over the top of other rust protection, I'll worry about it in a year's time though.
I've also seen some mention of rodent issues, I think I should be more worried about my fellow countrymen than them though.
John, while the car's far from a banger (I'm quite taken with it - I like smaller cars) I think you might be right.
15 years of running a Rover Mini as my daily (up to 15k miles a year), fighting, and losing the battle with rust, along with the dismay of finding the first two small patches of underbody rust on my 8 year old diesel estate might be influencing me.
Looking at the car now I'm quite pleased with the result. Now its covered with ACF50 I think we'll leave it there (even though I already have the Waxoyl spray kit from running the Mini!).
Birr - that looks a good job on the Z4. Was the Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint messy to apply? I take it, it sets off 'solid', not like an underseal?
What this has shown me is that modern cars need to be protected from new. I test drove the GR Yaris, tempted to buy one (couldn't really justify it) and have read the threads on people protecting these on arrival. Again, another new car that doesn't get good protection from new.
God - when did I turn into such a moaning old git! I never used to be bothered by things like this
ETA - GreenV8S - I bought the zinc paint to apply to the front subframe on the kit car I'm building (11 years now and counting). I seam welded and strengthened this before having it shot blasted. I immediately then painted it with the zinc paint. But good point well made, and still an excellent product in the right place.
15 years of running a Rover Mini as my daily (up to 15k miles a year), fighting, and losing the battle with rust, along with the dismay of finding the first two small patches of underbody rust on my 8 year old diesel estate might be influencing me.
Looking at the car now I'm quite pleased with the result. Now its covered with ACF50 I think we'll leave it there (even though I already have the Waxoyl spray kit from running the Mini!).
Birr - that looks a good job on the Z4. Was the Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint messy to apply? I take it, it sets off 'solid', not like an underseal?
What this has shown me is that modern cars need to be protected from new. I test drove the GR Yaris, tempted to buy one (couldn't really justify it) and have read the threads on people protecting these on arrival. Again, another new car that doesn't get good protection from new.
God - when did I turn into such a moaning old git! I never used to be bothered by things like this
ETA - GreenV8S - I bought the zinc paint to apply to the front subframe on the kit car I'm building (11 years now and counting). I seam welded and strengthened this before having it shot blasted. I immediately then painted it with the zinc paint. But good point well made, and still an excellent product in the right place.
Edited by Cooper1999 on Sunday 26th September 20:23
Cooper1999 said:
John, while the car's far from a banger (I'm quite taken with it - I like smaller cars) I think you might be right.
15 years of running a Rover Mini as my daily (up to 15k miles a year), fighting, and losing the battle with rust, along with the dismay of finding the first two small patches of underbody rust on my 8 year old diesel estate might be influencing me.
Looking at the car now I'm quite pleased with the result. Now its covered with ACF50 I think we'll leave it there (even though I already have the Waxoyl spray kit from running the Mini!).
Birr - that looks a good job on the Z4. Was the Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint messy to apply? I take it, it sets off 'solid', not like an underseal?
What this has shown me is that modern cars need to be protected from new. I test drove the GR Yaris, tempted to buy one (couldn't really justify it) and have read the threads on people protecting these on arrival. Again, another new car that doesn't get good protection from new.
God - when did I turn into such a moaning old git! I never used to be bothered by things like this
ETA - GreenV8S - I bought the zinc paint to apply to the front subframe on the kit car I'm building (11 years now and counting). I seam welded and strengthened this before having it shot blasted. I immediately then painted it with the zinc paint. But good point well made, and still an excellent product in the right place.
It wasn't too messy, it stuck really well to the metal so there weren't many drips. I just should've removed the rear exhaust section.15 years of running a Rover Mini as my daily (up to 15k miles a year), fighting, and losing the battle with rust, along with the dismay of finding the first two small patches of underbody rust on my 8 year old diesel estate might be influencing me.
Looking at the car now I'm quite pleased with the result. Now its covered with ACF50 I think we'll leave it there (even though I already have the Waxoyl spray kit from running the Mini!).
Birr - that looks a good job on the Z4. Was the Rustbuster EM121 Epoxy paint messy to apply? I take it, it sets off 'solid', not like an underseal?
What this has shown me is that modern cars need to be protected from new. I test drove the GR Yaris, tempted to buy one (couldn't really justify it) and have read the threads on people protecting these on arrival. Again, another new car that doesn't get good protection from new.
God - when did I turn into such a moaning old git! I never used to be bothered by things like this
ETA - GreenV8S - I bought the zinc paint to apply to the front subframe on the kit car I'm building (11 years now and counting). I seam welded and strengthened this before having it shot blasted. I immediately then painted it with the zinc paint. But good point well made, and still an excellent product in the right place.
Edited by Cooper1999 on Sunday 26th September 20:23
It's paint so it sets hard but it's supposed to flex with the metal.
I wanted to cover any exposed sections as it's a 16 year old car now, it held up remarkably well however for its age.
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