Touareg dead starter motor - any tips?
Discussion
Vehicle: 2003 VW Touareg V8 petrol (Audi 4.2 litre engine). Automatic gearbox and permanent 4WD.
Symptom: No crank, no start. A single click when ignition key turned.
Battery: >13.0 volts and >800 amps = Good
I put a heavy gauge jumper wire across terminals 30 and 87 of the starter relay and still get the single click with no crank.
Car is sat on flat gravel. Any tips / tricks to get this engine started so the car can be better positioned to replace the starter?
Gear selector can be moved to Neutral.
Starter motor cannot be easily replaced in situ. By the book at VW it's an engine out job. The alternative method is ~9 hours of dropping front suspension subframe and pulling out a load of ancillaries to gain access, so it needs to be on a ramp.
Thank you.
Symptom: No crank, no start. A single click when ignition key turned.
Battery: >13.0 volts and >800 amps = Good
I put a heavy gauge jumper wire across terminals 30 and 87 of the starter relay and still get the single click with no crank.
Car is sat on flat gravel. Any tips / tricks to get this engine started so the car can be better positioned to replace the starter?
Gear selector can be moved to Neutral.
Starter motor cannot be easily replaced in situ. By the book at VW it's an engine out job. The alternative method is ~9 hours of dropping front suspension subframe and pulling out a load of ancillaries to gain access, so it needs to be on a ramp.
Thank you.
Have you confirmed the relay is definitely ok?
Tried the old ‘hit it with a hammer’ trick on the starter in case it’s got a stuck brush?
Have you confirmed the battery would survive a load test? Voltage might read ok but it might fail under load.
Are all electrical connections good? Try a wiggle test on them.
Tried the old ‘hit it with a hammer’ trick on the starter in case it’s got a stuck brush?
Have you confirmed the battery would survive a load test? Voltage might read ok but it might fail under load.
Are all electrical connections good? Try a wiggle test on them.
Demelitia said:
Have you confirmed the relay is definitely ok?
Tried the old ‘hit it with a hammer’ trick on the starter in case it’s got a stuck brush?
Have you confirmed the battery would survive a load test? Voltage might read ok but it might fail under load.
Are all electrical connections good? Try a wiggle test on them.
^^^^ What 'e said.Tried the old ‘hit it with a hammer’ trick on the starter in case it’s got a stuck brush?
Have you confirmed the battery would survive a load test? Voltage might read ok but it might fail under load.
Are all electrical connections good? Try a wiggle test on them.
Are you also sure there isn't a separate starter battery, some bigger SUV type thingies have them.
Try a good battery straight onto the starter via jump leads if possible.
Thanks for the replies.
My explanation was poor - I already bypassed the relay with the jumper wire so I can rule out a faulty relay. I sent full battery volts and amps directly to the starter.
I am happy with the battery. It is 2 months old and my Foxwell tester gave it a pass. This car only has a single battery (the V10 diesel has two).
It could well be a loose or corroded connection at the starter motor but it is not accessible or even visible until you have removed the offside wheel, arch liner, offside air intake, dropped the subframe and reached up in to the bulkhead area with a long socket extension. Needless to say the car's offside is parked up tight against a hedge.
Absolute pain in the arse.
My explanation was poor - I already bypassed the relay with the jumper wire so I can rule out a faulty relay. I sent full battery volts and amps directly to the starter.
I am happy with the battery. It is 2 months old and my Foxwell tester gave it a pass. This car only has a single battery (the V10 diesel has two).
It could well be a loose or corroded connection at the starter motor but it is not accessible or even visible until you have removed the offside wheel, arch liner, offside air intake, dropped the subframe and reached up in to the bulkhead area with a long socket extension. Needless to say the car's offside is parked up tight against a hedge.
Absolute pain in the arse.
Hereward said:
Thanks for the replies.
My explanation was poor - I already bypassed the relay with the jumper wire so I can rule out a faulty relay. I sent full battery volts and amps directly to the starter.
I am happy with the battery. It is 2 months old and my Foxwell tester gave it a pass. This car only has a single battery (the V10 diesel has two).
It could well be a loose or corroded connection at the starter motor but it is not accessible or even visible until you have removed the offside wheel, arch liner, offside air intake, dropped the subframe and reached up in to the bulkhead area with a long socket extension. Needless to say the car's offside is parked up tight against a hedge.
Absolute pain in the arse.
I worked on one of those for several years. Once upon a time, I replaced the pipes to the water cooled alternator. That was bloody awful as well, took the best part of a week to sort that out. My explanation was poor - I already bypassed the relay with the jumper wire so I can rule out a faulty relay. I sent full battery volts and amps directly to the starter.
I am happy with the battery. It is 2 months old and my Foxwell tester gave it a pass. This car only has a single battery (the V10 diesel has two).
It could well be a loose or corroded connection at the starter motor but it is not accessible or even visible until you have removed the offside wheel, arch liner, offside air intake, dropped the subframe and reached up in to the bulkhead area with a long socket extension. Needless to say the car's offside is parked up tight against a hedge.
Absolute pain in the arse.
However, there really is no alternative, though it might be nicer if it weren't in the hedge.
Might be a bit of manual labour then. Have you got anyone with something stout enough to drag the car about with a solid towing bar? They’re cheap enough to buy and would give you the ability to position it where you need.
It should be ok with all 4 wheels on the ground in neutral for a bit of manoeuvring at slow speed.
It should be ok with all 4 wheels on the ground in neutral for a bit of manoeuvring at slow speed.
Cheers, guys.
Today's job is to jack the car up, crawl under, remove the undertrays and use a mirror and torch to try and see the terminals. Praying for a simple loose or corroded connection on the thick wire from the battery so I don't have to pull the whole starter out.
I have a mini excavator that I can use to drag the car around on the gravel if I decide to turn it round to gain better access to the wheel arch.
Today's job is to jack the car up, crawl under, remove the undertrays and use a mirror and torch to try and see the terminals. Praying for a simple loose or corroded connection on the thick wire from the battery so I don't have to pull the whole starter out.
I have a mini excavator that I can use to drag the car around on the gravel if I decide to turn it round to gain better access to the wheel arch.
Meaningful access from below is impossible. The front differential, subframe, engine cradle, steering components and exhaust are all in the way. By luck my torch just picked out "Valeo" printed on a label so I knew that was the right lump of metal. I gave it a few sharp taps with a rod and prodded the adjacent cables then tried the ignition key again. First attempt was the usual "click", second attempt a few seconds later and the car started 
Car is now parked with good access to the front offside wheel so my next step is to remove the wheel arch liner and see if that gives better access (or at least visual access) to the electrical connectors.
I know where this is heading, though - a mammoth disassembly session on a ramp to replace the starter. Annoyingly I removed the front diff last May and sent it off for a re-build. That would have been the ideal time...
Car is now parked with good access to the front offside wheel so my next step is to remove the wheel arch liner and see if that gives better access (or at least visual access) to the electrical connectors.
I know where this is heading, though - a mammoth disassembly session on a ramp to replace the starter. Annoyingly I removed the front diff last May and sent it off for a re-build. That would have been the ideal time...
A thought came to me about this in bed last night, yeah some fantasies eh?
Could it be the starter itself has a dead spot i wonder, so, in theory you could hot wire the solenoid to engaged...but if the main feed to the starter was live and the starter did engage then its a dangerous situation all round....so, hows about engaging the low tension and therefore the solenoid only with a remote wire from an outside power source, but have the car battery itself disconnected so no danger of the starter itself having enough power to spin the engine...then turn the engine over by hand via the crank p[ulley which shopuld in theory turn the starter too and if it is a dead spot onto a fresh contact point.
This needs more input and better minds than mine and i'm sure i haven't explained my thoughts well but might be something you can work with.
Could it be the starter itself has a dead spot i wonder, so, in theory you could hot wire the solenoid to engaged...but if the main feed to the starter was live and the starter did engage then its a dangerous situation all round....so, hows about engaging the low tension and therefore the solenoid only with a remote wire from an outside power source, but have the car battery itself disconnected so no danger of the starter itself having enough power to spin the engine...then turn the engine over by hand via the crank p[ulley which shopuld in theory turn the starter too and if it is a dead spot onto a fresh contact point.
This needs more input and better minds than mine and i'm sure i haven't explained my thoughts well but might be something you can work with.
sunbeam alpine said:
Threads like this convince me that all car designers should spend some time actually working on cars before they're ever let loose designing them.
Threads like this convince me that all German (&JLR) car designers should spend some time working on cars.....Most of the Toyota stuff is lovely. I remember changing an alternator on a Hilux a few years ago. I removed the alternator, and found the air con pipes had been lovingly manufactured to allow the alternator space to pass between them. Noted, and thank you all Toyota designers. A few days after that, I worked on a Mercedes with an alternator gone - you can already tell where this is going, but there was no such accommodation from the bloody German designers. Bunch of sausage eating, over complex, chaps that they are. Grr.
And it's not as if they make it better so it doesn't fail - the reverse is usually true.
bearman68 said:
Threads like this convince me that all German (&JLR) car designers should spend some time working on cars.....
Most of the Toyota stuff is lovely. I remember changing an alternator on a Hilux a few years ago. I removed the alternator, and found the air con pipes had been lovingly manufactured to allow the alternator space to pass between them. Noted, and thank you all Toyota designers. A few days after that, I worked on a Mercedes with an alternator gone - you can already tell where this is going, but there was no such accommodation from the bloody German designers. Bunch of sausage eating, over complex, chaps that they are. Grr.
And it's not as if they make it better so it doesn't fail - the reverse is usually true.
Can only agree, the only thing to fail on any of my landcruisers over dozens of years has been an alternator, removed the osf wheel and sat comfy on my ample back side to remove the thing and bolt the new one in from the side.Most of the Toyota stuff is lovely. I remember changing an alternator on a Hilux a few years ago. I removed the alternator, and found the air con pipes had been lovingly manufactured to allow the alternator space to pass between them. Noted, and thank you all Toyota designers. A few days after that, I worked on a Mercedes with an alternator gone - you can already tell where this is going, but there was no such accommodation from the bloody German designers. Bunch of sausage eating, over complex, chaps that they are. Grr.
And it's not as if they make it better so it doesn't fail - the reverse is usually true.
Cambelt on the 4 cyl Diesel engines is the simplest since B20 engined Volvos, no need to remove the auxilliary drive belt, real tiuming marks no locking tool required, basic tools a small torque wrench and 1 hour the first time you change it.
The aux belt has multiple routes depending on the vehicle spec, so they helpfully put a sticker on the air filter housing showing the route the belt has to take, so if one breaks on you it's childs play to work out where a new one should go, such a simple but thoughtful touch.
All vehicles should be like this.
Monocoque construction may be great for "torsional rigidity" and all that crap but it's a nightmare for access!
I could just see a bit of the starter motor casing from a different angle but impossible to see the electrical terminals.
So now I need to decide whether to ask my mechanic if he is interested and give me a ball-park Estimate or if I try do it myself on my low-rise scissor lift.
I love this car and it is corrosion-free so I would like it to survive...
I could just see a bit of the starter motor casing from a different angle but impossible to see the electrical terminals.
So now I need to decide whether to ask my mechanic if he is interested and give me a ball-park Estimate or if I try do it myself on my low-rise scissor lift.
I love this car and it is corrosion-free so I would like it to survive...
NMNeil said:
Connect one of the battery jumper cables between the negative battery terminal and directly to the engine block or cylinder head and try again.
I've seen so many problems like this come down to a bad engine ground.
Thank you. That is a terrific idea and, if nothing else, good to rule out a bad ground before performing major surgery on the car and my wallet.I've seen so many problems like this come down to a bad engine ground.
Hereward said:
Since tapping the starter with a long rod the car has started instantly 5 consecutive times. To loosely quote Andrew Camarata - "I'm calling that fixed".
If / when it lets me down again I will replace the starter by cutting a small access hole in the monocoque in the wheel well.
I am absolutely over the moon and its not even my car! If / when it lets me down again I will replace the starter by cutting a small access hole in the monocoque in the wheel well.
Have you confirmed that its an engine out job only I worry that it could play up again and that this maybe the start of shenanigans
Cutting the hole might be the only option and I wonder how many others in the world have diy access holes
Edited by jeremyh1 on Monday 6th February 17:23
I'm just reading the stuff that the owners have put on their forum and its a nightmare
https://www.clubtouareg.com/threads/2004-touareg-v...
Edited by jeremyh1 on Monday 6th February 17:28
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