Repacking trailer hubs - how to remove?

[tux850]

I've inherited an old trailer (home made? I guess that's what they did in the 70s/80s!) and whilst it looks a bit ropey it feels solid and with a bit of work I think it'll last a good few more years:



The hubs seem fine insofar that they don't bind and there's no significant play, however I figured it worthwhile repacking them with grease whilst I'm here. I've removed the split pins, castle nuts and washers:



And here's what I'm left with:



I thought from here it'd just be a case of sliding the hubs off but they don't really want to move. I've been tapping with a hammer and got them to slide a few mm (the gap on the right was previously closed):



But they don't seem to want to move any further. I don't want to go wild with the hammer in case there's something I'm missing e.g. something else needs removing or moving in some way!

Any advice? Perhaps I should just leave them alone, particularly if removal might actually cause more harm than good if I end up breaking a seal or something? Given the style of trailer I imagine it's probably only done a few thousand miles in its whole life! I am not intending significant usage either - just a couple of camping trips a year most likely (the first in a few weeks time so I am mindful not to cause a problem that I don't otherwise have right now!).

Edited by tux850 on Saturday 1st July 13:46

[TwinKam]

Bigger hammer needed! Or a hub puller. The bearings will have rusted onto the stub axles. It may be wise to order new bearings and have them to hand before going too mad (if you are able to read the numbers on the old ones).

[hidetheelephants]

Crow bar or big screw driver in the gap, also pounding on the hub with a mallet or lay a piece of wood against and then use a hammer. A puller would do it but seems excessive for just one job.

[tux850]

Thanks for all the comments.

It at least sounds like I was heading the right direction, and just need greater force to overcome whatever's holding them back. I've secured them back in place now and for the time will take the easy route of just making cosmetic improvements. Perhaps after summer if so inclined I'll have another go with the hubs, at least then if I need to identify and buy replacement parts I won't be under any time pressure. There's family history in the trailer so some motivation for spending a little money on it, although I am mindful of not letting it turn into Trigger's broom!

[hidetheelephants]

Hawkshaw said:

This sort of thing is always a problem with old trailers, as you can get into a major rebuild quite quickly and it soon becomes uneconomic with replacement bearings or hub assemblies. If the hubs run freely and quietly with no appreciable play, it may be best to leave well alone.

If the OP intends pulling it on the road removing and inspecting the bearings needs to be done, they may well be reusable but there's no means of checking other than taking it apart. If there is rust the bearings will fail a few miles down the road, the cost of new bearings, unless they're a very odd size, is likely to be insignificant against the cost of a new set of tyres which will probably be needed too.

[paintman]

^^^ Assuming a standard size taper roller they're common & cheap.

Hopefully the numbers on the bearings will have survived & makes ordering replacements straightforward.
If not, find a local bearing stockist, take them in & they'll be able to identify from measurement if you can't do that yourself.

Not difficult to remove the old ones from the hubs & fit the new ones.
Have a look on youtube & you'll find lots of 'how-tos'

On my boat trailer 3 hubs are easy to remove but the 4th needs to be persuaded.

When you've fitted your new bearings & are refitting the hubs to the trailer after you've put the nut back on refit the wheel & rotate the wheel as you tighten up the bearing nut.
This will help settle the bearings.
Keep tightening until the wheel doesn't spin easily.
Then back the nut off a bit at a time turning the wheel as you do until you can JUST feel play when you grip the wheel at 12 & 6 o'clock & rock it.
Refit the split pin - if it doesn't quite line up you can either file the castellations or back the nut off a little further until you can fit the pin. I'd rather slightly more play than none.

I've done many taper rollers this way on cars as well as trailers & never had an issue either with bearing failure or MOT.
I did once rather overtighten one on a Scimitar front hub & it didn't last very long.
Overheated, destroyed the bearing & the car needed recovery.
One of the races had got so tight on the stub it needed a bead of weld (mig) run round the bearing track face of race to remove it. (The heat expands the race & the weld stops it shrinking back)

Edited by paintman on Sunday 2nd July 18:10

[NMNeil]

Put the center nut back on a few turns, and refit the wheel. Grab the sides of the wheel and rock it backwards and forwards. The hub will twist sideways slightly and the outer taper bearing will move forward, possibly quite quickly hence putting the nut back on to stop it flying across your yard.
If it doesn't move, as others have said, use a puller.

[tux850]

hidetheelephants said:

If the OP intends pulling it on the road removing and inspecting the bearings needs to be done, they may well be reusable but there's no means of checking other than taking it apart. If there is rust the bearings will fail a few miles down the road, the cost of new bearings, unless they're a very odd size, is likely to be insignificant against the cost of a new set of tyres which will probably be needed too.

Yeah I was indeed planning on using it. The trailer is not of unknown origin, and whilst this doesn't change much I do at least know it's seen occasional use. The tyres still have there moulding 'prongs' but they are date-stamped 2015 so I do recognise there's the age issue to consider.

If the worst came to the worst and I ever had to buy new hubs are they a standard size, noting that I wouldn't easily be able to change the axle?

Edited by tux850 on Sunday 2nd July 19:19

[tux850]

Thanks for all the other suggestions by the way - all noted for when I give this another go (which won't be after the imminent use as mentioned). For the time being I've just tarted it up a bit!

Edited by tux850 on Sunday 2nd July 19:32

[hidetheelephants]

It's feasible; that kind of trailer used to be near-universal and IIRC the axles were usually 1" or 25mm, a pair of hubs could probably be found. Having been puzzling why the hubs look weird it appears the axle was originally braked and someone has removed the drums and back plates with an axe, possibly a gas axe.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 2nd July 19:26

[tux850]

hidetheelephants said:

Having been puzzling why the hubs look weird it appears the axle was originally braked and someone has removed the drums and back plates with an axe, possibly a gas axe.

Aha! I did wonder why the edges of the hubs looked like that! I thought they might've been the wounds from previous attempts to remove them with a puller, with chunks being pulled out in the process... If they are signs that drums have been removed that makes more sense... although that doesn't quite feel the right word to use!

Edited by tux850 on Sunday 2nd July 19:43

[paintman]

tux850 said:

If the worst came to the worst and I ever had to buy new hubs are they a standard size, noting that I wouldn't easily be able to change the axle?

Edited by tux850 on Sunday 2nd July 19:19

Probably, unless they're an unusual size.
Have a look through this site. I've used them for various parts.
www.trailertek.com/trailer-parts

[tux850]

paintman said:

Probably, unless they're an unusual size.
Have a look through this site. I've used them for various parts.
www.trailertek.com/trailer-parts

I got in touch with Trailertek with some photos etc but as I'd said the PCD was 100mm they couldn't help me as they only supply 4". I conceded that my measurements were hastily done with a tape measure and so the 1.6mm difference could be entirely down to user error and whilst this moved us forwards a little it unfortunately ended up with the guy saying he'd never seen hubs like that ever before in his life.

However, the comment from hidetheelephants about signs of them originally being braked stuck with me though as there is no way a trailer of this type/size would ever had needed brakes... My Dad then revealed how commonplace it was to make trailers from car parts 'back in the day' and so I went hunting and discovered the hubs are actually from a Classic Mini! Seemingly still commonly available, both as complete hubs but also just replacement bearing sets. Apparently they switched from ball to tapered roller bearings during its 40 year life but the outer dimensions remained the same and so are backwards compatible. When we're back from holiday I'll attempt to remove the hubs as suggested (puller, more hammer etc) and then commence the upgrade!

[TwinKam]

Good detective work!
Seeing as the remaining faces of the drums are now acting as nothing more than wheel spacers, it would be neater to replace them with... wheel spacers! ...especially now that you know what will fit

[tux850]

TwinKam said:

Good detective work!
Seeing as the remaining faces of the drums are now acting as nothing more than wheel spacers, it would be neater to replace them with... wheel spacers! ...especially now that you know what will fit

Yeah, that's an idea although I did think if I ever end up changing the hubs I'd just get the disc brake version as apparently they are a direct replacement fit.

Edit: Actually, thinking about it they'd be expecting a disc too so without one spacers would still be needed wouldn't they!

Edited by tux850 on Tuesday 4th July 12:50

[Bobupndown]

Being a certified Mini nutter of more years than I care to remember I knew looking at your pictures they were mini wheels and hubs. As you say a very common diy trailer build using the rear hubs and bearings from what was at one time a fairly limitless supply of scrapyard rusty Minis. They are 4" pcd by the way. I have such a trailer equipped with mini wheels, also have a spare set of hubs sitting on a shelf in my garage. Brilliantly versatile for a small trailer. I often think that there are probably more mini wheels and hubs in service all over the world in this role than there are on the remaining number of actual Mini survivors. Not many Minis languishing in scrapyards these days to donate these and you're not technically allowed to self build trailers since 2012 unless you have them inspected and certified.

Edited by Bobupndown on Saturday 15th July 17:03

Edited by Bobupndown on Saturday 15th July 17:04

[tux850]

Thanks for that insight Bobupndown. I must say when I was trawling the net for classic mini related info I could certainly see the appeal of owning and maintaining such a car given the wealth of knowledge of its construction, widespread availability of spares for decades etc. I suppose all that is eroding over time which is sad.

I think this trailer has got a fair bit of life remaining in it though and I am keeping my eye on eBay for a spare set of hubs which could prove handy. I did wonder about the home built aspect, but whilst it might be lacking in formal certification it sure does feel a whole lot more robust than something you might pick up from Erde and the like.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

Bobupndown said:

I often think that there are probably more mini wheels and hubs in service all over the world in this role than there are on the remaining number of actual Mini survivors.

I myself have a motorcycle trailer that uses mini hubs and wheels