Classic camper van ...Opinions please
Discussion
Hi, I am looking to start a business hiring out Classic camper vans. The market seems to be saturated with everyone's favourite the VW T2 . There are at least 4 traders hiring them out not too far from me. I don't dislike them, but I just wondered if there just too many people doing the same thing.
So I have two questions that I would be grateful for opinions please.
1 Do you think people would be interested in hiring any other Classic vans such as the Renault Estavette, Peugeot J7 or Citroen HY.
2 Do you think people would be put of by the fact they are left hand drive
Look forward to you opinions whatever they are
So I have two questions that I would be grateful for opinions please.
1 Do you think people would be interested in hiring any other Classic vans such as the Renault Estavette, Peugeot J7 or Citroen HY.
2 Do you think people would be put of by the fact they are left hand drive
Look forward to you opinions whatever they are
I think it's a very limited market due to the risk of breakdown - actual or perceived, and the lack of 'classic love' for those kind of vehicles.
Rental rates on these aren't cheap; If I'm renting one I need to know that it is categorically not doing to break down on me when my holiday time is scarce.
I'd rather spend the same money hiring either a T5/T6 or a more conventional style motorhome because I am confident that would complete the trip without leaving me waiting for recovery on the side of the road.
Rental rates on these aren't cheap; If I'm renting one I need to know that it is categorically not doing to break down on me when my holiday time is scarce.
I'd rather spend the same money hiring either a T5/T6 or a more conventional style motorhome because I am confident that would complete the trip without leaving me waiting for recovery on the side of the road.
Just to add OP, the Renault and the Peugeot are butt ugly old French commercial vehicles that hardly anyone knows.
I'm a total petrolhead and into the vintage camping scene (Eriba caravans) but even I had to Google them.
I've also got 30+ yrs of hanging around the classic VW scene and seen people break out into various different vehicles after VWs became too 'common' but nobody has ploughed this particular furrow. There's absolutely no love out there for them as a camper, certainly not enough for a sustainable, profitable rental business.
That leaves you with the Citroen, my neighbour has restored two of these recently. The market for them is for people who want to use them as food trucks rather than campers. That's why (apparently) the biggest UK stockist of HYs specialises in this field.
https://citroenhvan.eu/for-sale/
If there was money to be made in converting them to and renting them out as campers I'm sure someone would have done it already. Biggest issue is them being dog slow, hence costly engine conversions required to make them suitable as modern camper. There's also nobody (to my knowledge) making pop top roofs for them as there are for VWs, which I would say is a must-have for anyone wanting to hire a vintage camper.
Sorry to sound like I'm pissing on your camp fire, it's always good to offer something different, but I just see this as a way of you losing a lot of money rather quickly on this venture.
I'm a total petrolhead and into the vintage camping scene (Eriba caravans) but even I had to Google them.
I've also got 30+ yrs of hanging around the classic VW scene and seen people break out into various different vehicles after VWs became too 'common' but nobody has ploughed this particular furrow. There's absolutely no love out there for them as a camper, certainly not enough for a sustainable, profitable rental business.
That leaves you with the Citroen, my neighbour has restored two of these recently. The market for them is for people who want to use them as food trucks rather than campers. That's why (apparently) the biggest UK stockist of HYs specialises in this field.
https://citroenhvan.eu/for-sale/
If there was money to be made in converting them to and renting them out as campers I'm sure someone would have done it already. Biggest issue is them being dog slow, hence costly engine conversions required to make them suitable as modern camper. There's also nobody (to my knowledge) making pop top roofs for them as there are for VWs, which I would say is a must-have for anyone wanting to hire a vintage camper.
Sorry to sound like I'm pissing on your camp fire, it's always good to offer something different, but I just see this as a way of you losing a lot of money rather quickly on this venture.
PurpleTurtle said:
Just to add OP, the Renault and the Peugeot are butt ugly old French commercial vehicles that hardly anyone knows.
I'm a total petrolhead and into the vintage camping scene (Eriba caravans) but even I had to Google them.
I've also got 30+ yrs of hanging around the classic VW scene and seen people break out into various different vehicles after VWs became too 'common' but nobody has ploughed this particular furrow. There's absolutely no love out there for them as a camper, certainly not enough for a sustainable, profitable rental business.
That leaves you with the Citroen, my neighbour has restored two of these recently. The market for them is for people who want to use them as food trucks rather than campers. That's why (apparently) the biggest UK stockist of HYs specialises in this field.
https://citroenhvan.eu/for-sale/
If there was money to be made in converting them to and renting them out as campers I'm sure someone would have done it already. Biggest issue is them being dog slow, hence costly engine conversions required to make them suitable as modern camper. There's also nobody (to my knowledge) making pop top roofs for them as there are for VWs, which I would say is a must-have for anyone wanting to hire a vintage camper.
Sorry to sound like I'm pissing on your camp fire, it's always good to offer something different, but I just see this as a way of you losing a lot of money rather quickly on this venture.
I agree.I'm a total petrolhead and into the vintage camping scene (Eriba caravans) but even I had to Google them.
I've also got 30+ yrs of hanging around the classic VW scene and seen people break out into various different vehicles after VWs became too 'common' but nobody has ploughed this particular furrow. There's absolutely no love out there for them as a camper, certainly not enough for a sustainable, profitable rental business.
That leaves you with the Citroen, my neighbour has restored two of these recently. The market for them is for people who want to use them as food trucks rather than campers. That's why (apparently) the biggest UK stockist of HYs specialises in this field.
https://citroenhvan.eu/for-sale/
If there was money to be made in converting them to and renting them out as campers I'm sure someone would have done it already. Biggest issue is them being dog slow, hence costly engine conversions required to make them suitable as modern camper. There's also nobody (to my knowledge) making pop top roofs for them as there are for VWs, which I would say is a must-have for anyone wanting to hire a vintage camper.
Sorry to sound like I'm pissing on your camp fire, it's always good to offer something different, but I just see this as a way of you losing a lot of money rather quickly on this venture.
I think (if you are in the UK), old Bedford, Commers and Transits might be more appropriate? Or how about VW T25s? Although mine currently has a knackered gearbox which is going to take at least 8 weeks to sort (mainly parts issues). Very quickly your business could go up in smoke (literally ?
) if you get a couple of major failures......We use our T25 regularly and I quite like the fact it is slow and at a leaisurely pace..... makes a more relaxing holiday.....
Mike
I'd love a nice classic camper van!
I don't want to camp in the bugger, I DO want to rock up at the seaside with two kids, Mrs D and the dog and look cool, brew up, cook bacon, have a pee, sit and have lunch and stuff.......
Fear puts me off!
I'm middle aged, have disposable cash, could probably chuck £15k at it.
It doesn't have to fast, desirable, a VeeDub, be lowered or cool.
About 15 years ago I used a guy to 'find' me a TVR, he charged me £600 and it was well worth it....
Why not offer a buying service, you go find them, check them out, negotiate the price and email me some options...
I don't want to camp in the bugger, I DO want to rock up at the seaside with two kids, Mrs D and the dog and look cool, brew up, cook bacon, have a pee, sit and have lunch and stuff.......
Fear puts me off!
I'm middle aged, have disposable cash, could probably chuck £15k at it.
It doesn't have to fast, desirable, a VeeDub, be lowered or cool.
About 15 years ago I used a guy to 'find' me a TVR, he charged me £600 and it was well worth it....
Why not offer a buying service, you go find them, check them out, negotiate the price and email me some options...
To answer your original two questions:
1. Yes, I think people would rent things like Estafettes. When you're looking at vehicles of that age, I think people will either want to hire an old camper, or they won't. I can't picture many people being picky over whether it's an Estafette or HY, but I do think the layout inside will make a big difference.
2. Yes, people will be put off by them being LHD. It's not a problem most of the time in the UK, but can be a mental block for people.
There's going to be a significant setup cost to this. Estafettes, for example, have become much more sought after in the last couple of years. That's driven a lot by people wanting food trucks, and now that HY vans are as expensive as they are, it's pushing everything else up. They're expensive to restore and difficult to make reliable.
You also won't find that many that are already converted. So, if you're going to convert them yourself, and want to rent them out, you'll have to be able to get a Gas Safe certificate, and so will need to comply with current regs for gas lockers, drop vents etc. The cost of converting is going up at the moment too, due to half the UK converting vans during lockdown.
1. Yes, I think people would rent things like Estafettes. When you're looking at vehicles of that age, I think people will either want to hire an old camper, or they won't. I can't picture many people being picky over whether it's an Estafette or HY, but I do think the layout inside will make a big difference.
2. Yes, people will be put off by them being LHD. It's not a problem most of the time in the UK, but can be a mental block for people.
There's going to be a significant setup cost to this. Estafettes, for example, have become much more sought after in the last couple of years. That's driven a lot by people wanting food trucks, and now that HY vans are as expensive as they are, it's pushing everything else up. They're expensive to restore and difficult to make reliable.
You also won't find that many that are already converted. So, if you're going to convert them yourself, and want to rent them out, you'll have to be able to get a Gas Safe certificate, and so will need to comply with current regs for gas lockers, drop vents etc. The cost of converting is going up at the moment too, due to half the UK converting vans during lockdown.
I had my first Vw T2 , 30 years ago. They drove far better than any commer van and so on that was about then too. Think about yr audience. An authentic 60’s van is going to be a dog to drive.
Ever drive a Vw split camper. 50 mph in a ton can, screaming it’s nuts off unless someone has changed gearboxes etc. Who in their right mind is going to hire a commer and then knock off 1000 miles in a week on it. A sorted 70’s bay will do that though and be pretty decent to drive if you set up right. Factor on also seating: can you put child seats in, isofix: all these vans just have a bit of ply and some foam in the rear as seats.
The Citroen h vans look fab but I doubt I’ve ever seen one used as a camper anywhere. In the think even on wheeler dealers they converted it to a transit engine as the original was dire.
But let’s be honest what do you see on the roads now? Everything is pretty new. I had a week in Cornwall last year: surf heaven. I counted just 4 bays.
No no ones driving them anywhere now apart from to sit in a field like van fest and rub themselves with glee or sorrow that they’re spent £30 k restoring something that is fairly hideous in modern times.
Ever drive a Vw split camper. 50 mph in a ton can, screaming it’s nuts off unless someone has changed gearboxes etc. Who in their right mind is going to hire a commer and then knock off 1000 miles in a week on it. A sorted 70’s bay will do that though and be pretty decent to drive if you set up right. Factor on also seating: can you put child seats in, isofix: all these vans just have a bit of ply and some foam in the rear as seats.
The Citroen h vans look fab but I doubt I’ve ever seen one used as a camper anywhere. In the think even on wheeler dealers they converted it to a transit engine as the original was dire.
But let’s be honest what do you see on the roads now? Everything is pretty new. I had a week in Cornwall last year: surf heaven. I counted just 4 bays.
No no ones driving them anywhere now apart from to sit in a field like van fest and rub themselves with glee or sorrow that they’re spent £30 k restoring something that is fairly hideous in modern times.
Drabbesttunic said:
The idea of them is good, the reality of travelling around in them is awful, forgetting lhd which will put off 90% of people, the Estafette in particular can't even hit 50mph, thats just terrible.
Not sure all that many would be put off by LHD, it adds to the authenticity.Vasco said:
Drabbesttunic said:
The idea of them is good, the reality of travelling around in them is awful, forgetting lhd which will put off 90% of people, the Estafette in particular can't even hit 50mph, thats just terrible.
Not sure all that many would be put off by LHD, it adds to the authenticity.I hired a 1968 VW split-screen for a week for my honeymoon, we spent a week pootling around Northumberland (from Harrogate, so not that far). The main reason I wanted to hire one was because I like road trips in campers and I always wanted an old VW van.
It was a modified van, top speed was about 52, changing gears going uphill was scary as I wasn't sure I could keep up enough momentum for the higher gear to "work", bump steer was horrendous and it used about 4 litres of oil in 5 days.
I think it was a brilliant trip, but probably only because I am a huge fan of old VWs. I'm not sure there would be a market for something that has much less of a following, particularly when you have so many other options for quirky vans out there...
It was a modified van, top speed was about 52, changing gears going uphill was scary as I wasn't sure I could keep up enough momentum for the higher gear to "work", bump steer was horrendous and it used about 4 litres of oil in 5 days.
I think it was a brilliant trip, but probably only because I am a huge fan of old VWs. I'm not sure there would be a market for something that has much less of a following, particularly when you have so many other options for quirky vans out there...
Drabbesttunic said:
Vasco said:
Drabbesttunic said:
The idea of them is good, the reality of travelling around in them is awful, forgetting lhd which will put off 90% of people, the Estafette in particular can't even hit 50mph, thats just terrible.
Not sure all that many would be put off by LHD, it adds to the authenticity.crankedup5 said:
Any excuse to post a piccie of my Austin J2
Said before that it’s slow, heavy on petrol, steering that needs arms like popeye, very few comforts.
But by eck it’s brilliant fun and spends many a long weekend at steam rallies.
Not really a camper, more of a day van that can be used for camping, but great fun * when running
crankedup5 said:
Any excuse to post a piccie of my Austin J2
Said before that it’s slow, heavy on petrol, steering that needs arms like popeye, very few comforts.
But by eck it’s brilliant fun and spends many a long weekend at steam rallies.
It’s a niche market. You love your J2, its foibles are part of its character, and you learn to live with them and work around them. Most people aren’t prepared to do that if they’re spending a high three or four figure sum (as is the going rate) to rent one for a week to travel from, say, Manchester to Cornwall. I once spent a summer commuting in my brother’s 1962 VW split screen camper, something with a gearbox that largely involved guesswork in its selection and painfully slow, it’s just got so many pitfalls as a business venture. I really think it’s a non-starter, no pun intended.
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