Who tows with a 4x4 & why?
Discussion
I have noticed these days a large number of caravaners tow with 4x4`s ,pick up truck or MPV`s, I am just wondering why.
A caravan is a large wobbly thing that wants to fall over, the above mentioned vehicles are all large wobbly things that want to fall over, so putting the two together does not make sense to me.
Can someone please explain the logic / physics / sense of this to me, I am not trying to be funny, I have driven a great many of the aforementioned rides ,even a Range Rover Sport needs all it can muster to keep itself upright let alone the others.
A caravan is a large wobbly thing that wants to fall over, the above mentioned vehicles are all large wobbly things that want to fall over, so putting the two together does not make sense to me.
Can someone please explain the logic / physics / sense of this to me, I am not trying to be funny, I have driven a great many of the aforementioned rides ,even a Range Rover Sport needs all it can muster to keep itself upright let alone the others.
A number of reasons, from my experience. Currently towing with an X5 having moved from saloons and estates.
Towing wisdom is that the caravan needs to be no more than 85% the weight of the car. Although legally it can be 100% I believe. Therefore the heavier the tow vehicle the more stable the set up is. This is bore out by my experience.
Although the soft suspension may mean a 4x4 is more likely to turn over when the caravan does. A car is more likely remain upright, although with the rear wheels off the ground with the caravan on its side. With a heavy tow car you are much less likely to get into problems, unless of course you feel safe and then start pushing the boundaries by travelling much quicker.
Modern caravans have stability control, which when the caravan starts weaving will momentary apply the brakes of the caravan, this tends to pull everything back into line and forces weight onto the rear wheels of the car and reduces speed. Very effective in my experience.
So weight advantage is the simple answer +
Nose weight on the tow bar. Generally at 75 - 100Kg load is required. With a car loaded fully with all the paraphernalia, kids and bikes on roof, the rear is dragging on the floor and at the bottom of suspension travel. Not too good in my experience.
X5 rear is air suspension.
Other advantages:-
4x4 can have its advantages, no wheel spin when pulling away from a standing and perhaps a little more grip on surfaces other than tarmac (tyres depending).
When changing caravan I don't need to be on hand to give advice to Mrs Raynard about the suitability of the weight match. Therefore she can have whatever she wants without the need to consider the size of the tow car. It's all covered.
Pedro.
Towing wisdom is that the caravan needs to be no more than 85% the weight of the car. Although legally it can be 100% I believe. Therefore the heavier the tow vehicle the more stable the set up is. This is bore out by my experience.
Although the soft suspension may mean a 4x4 is more likely to turn over when the caravan does. A car is more likely remain upright, although with the rear wheels off the ground with the caravan on its side. With a heavy tow car you are much less likely to get into problems, unless of course you feel safe and then start pushing the boundaries by travelling much quicker.
Modern caravans have stability control, which when the caravan starts weaving will momentary apply the brakes of the caravan, this tends to pull everything back into line and forces weight onto the rear wheels of the car and reduces speed. Very effective in my experience.
So weight advantage is the simple answer +
Nose weight on the tow bar. Generally at 75 - 100Kg load is required. With a car loaded fully with all the paraphernalia, kids and bikes on roof, the rear is dragging on the floor and at the bottom of suspension travel. Not too good in my experience.
X5 rear is air suspension.
Other advantages:-
4x4 can have its advantages, no wheel spin when pulling away from a standing and perhaps a little more grip on surfaces other than tarmac (tyres depending).
When changing caravan I don't need to be on hand to give advice to Mrs Raynard about the suitability of the weight match. Therefore she can have whatever she wants without the need to consider the size of the tow car. It's all covered.
Pedro.
Single axle Vs twin axle van makes a huge difference as well.
I had a lightweight (sub 1000kg) 5 berth single axle and now have a twin (circa 1800kg fully loaded) and the single was all over the place compared to the twin.
Current tow vehicle is a new shape ford galaxy. FWD...not been caught short yet although 4wd would be a nice thing to have.
I had a lightweight (sub 1000kg) 5 berth single axle and now have a twin (circa 1800kg fully loaded) and the single was all over the place compared to the twin.
Current tow vehicle is a new shape ford galaxy. FWD...not been caught short yet although 4wd would be a nice thing to have.
Jim on the hill said:
OP dislikes SUV's and thought he'd found a clever thing to say
Where as you didn`t........... I think something like an Audi A6 quattro would be perfect or A4 or anything of this size. No one here has given a good reason for using a tall vehicle ,
relying on the improvement of the caravans to justify it is not good enough , vast majority of towing accidents involve 4x4 `s..
hot metal said:
I think something like an Audi A6 quattro would be perfect or A4 or anything of this size. No one here has given a good reason for using a tall vehicle ,
relying on the improvement of the caravans to justify it is not good enough , vast majority of towing accidents involve 4x4 `s..
If I was choosing a good towing vehicle I would look for, a torquey engine, probably a diesel, a long wheelbase for stability and robust transmission. Really hefty vehicles like the Landcruiser VX or the Discovery 4 were popular with plant firms, because they were good for heavy towing, most use crewcab pickups these days. Probably overkill for towing a caravan, but nice to be on top of the job as farmers say.
Newarch said:
The main problem with a car is that they are not necessarily optimised for use with a trailer, whereas most larger 4x4s and 2wd vans are. Tall vehicles are not necessarily unstable either, the days of things like Range Rovers wallowing are long gone. Even most pickups have perfectly good handling even if the ride quality is a bit agricultural.
If I was choosing a good towing vehicle I would look for, a torquey engine, probably a diesel, a long wheelbase for stability and robust transmission. Really hefty vehicles like the Landcruiser VX or the Discovery 4 were popular with plant firms, because they were good for heavy towing, most use crewcab pickups these days. Probably overkill for towing a caravan, but nice to be on top of the job as farmers say.
Granted, plenty of sensible folk on here, Mr Reynard makes a good argument but,,, not everyone is looking to spend north of 6 figures on their combo. I recently saw a twin axle van being towed by a Qasqai , pretty poor, and there are still many who mothball the HUGE Mitsubishi 4x4 until the summer, 1980`s vintage most often, I just think these are a danger to the public.If I was choosing a good towing vehicle I would look for, a torquey engine, probably a diesel, a long wheelbase for stability and robust transmission. Really hefty vehicles like the Landcruiser VX or the Discovery 4 were popular with plant firms, because they were good for heavy towing, most use crewcab pickups these days. Probably overkill for towing a caravan, but nice to be on top of the job as farmers say.
hot metal said:
Jim on the hill said:
OP dislikes SUV's and thought he'd found a clever thing to say
Where as you didn`t........... I think something like an Audi A6 quattro would be perfect or A4 or anything of this size. No one here has given a good reason for using a tall vehicle ,
relying on the improvement of the caravans to justify it is not good enough , vast majority of towing accidents involve 4x4 `s..
We had (until just before Christmas) a twin axle Ace Jubilee with a MIRO of around 1730kg if I remember correctly.
For the first 4 years we towed it with our Audi A6 3.0 TDI Quattro, which also had self levelling rear suspension.
We then replaced the Audi with a VW Touareg, again 3.0 TDI 4WD but obviously a heavier vehicle.
The Audi had a towing limit of 1900kg, and a nose weight limit of around 90kg (I think).
The VW is 3500kg and 140kg respectively.
The Audi was a good tow car, but it was pretty much at it's limit. I did have one scary moment on the way home from the Loire fully loaded when I went past a lorry on the outskirts of Rouen where the tail started to wag the dog! The Audi towing safety alarm kicked in and all was well (was going about 70mph so more than likely my fault!).
The VW however oozes confidence and is so effortless. It doesn't have rear air suspension though so isn't quite as smooth as the Audi was.
I certainly know what I'd choose to tow a large caravan with, though!
For the first 4 years we towed it with our Audi A6 3.0 TDI Quattro, which also had self levelling rear suspension.
We then replaced the Audi with a VW Touareg, again 3.0 TDI 4WD but obviously a heavier vehicle.
The Audi had a towing limit of 1900kg, and a nose weight limit of around 90kg (I think).
The VW is 3500kg and 140kg respectively.
The Audi was a good tow car, but it was pretty much at it's limit. I did have one scary moment on the way home from the Loire fully loaded when I went past a lorry on the outskirts of Rouen where the tail started to wag the dog! The Audi towing safety alarm kicked in and all was well (was going about 70mph so more than likely my fault!).
The VW however oozes confidence and is so effortless. It doesn't have rear air suspension though so isn't quite as smooth as the Audi was.
I certainly know what I'd choose to tow a large caravan with, though!
A Touareg is better than the average 4x4, I do not tow anymore, got a motorhome, but my first tow car was a Cavalier, then a Mondeo , then a Galaxy.
The Galaxy was ok, low centre of gravity but was no where near as good as the previous 2, which surprised me. I stopped towing in 2012 but never had an issue, just remembered the only advice I was ever given on towing `do not speed`.
Plenty of diehard caravaners on here with all the right ideas, all the right equipment but so many still have not a clue .
The Galaxy was ok, low centre of gravity but was no where near as good as the previous 2, which surprised me. I stopped towing in 2012 but never had an issue, just remembered the only advice I was ever given on towing `do not speed`.
Plenty of diehard caravaners on here with all the right ideas, all the right equipment but so many still have not a clue .
So I tow with this….
I’m a builder/ landscaper so it’s my work and leisure vehicle, I tow a medium size single axle caravan and yes it’s effortless torque is the deciding factor 3.2 L automatic……is it the ideal tow vehicle I’m not so sure. My BMW M535D was better I’d say more stability lower centre of gravity.
I’m a builder/ landscaper so it’s my work and leisure vehicle, I tow a medium size single axle caravan and yes it’s effortless torque is the deciding factor 3.2 L automatic……is it the ideal tow vehicle I’m not so sure. My BMW M535D was better I’d say more stability lower centre of gravity.
Big Rat said:
So I tow with this….
I’m a builder/ landscaper so it’s my work and leisure vehicle, I tow a medium size single axle caravan and yes it’s effortless torque is the deciding factor 3.2 L automatic……is it the ideal tow vehicle I’m not so sure. My BMW M535D was better I’d say more stability lower centre of gravity.
You know, I very nearly had one of these, one was offered to me with a recent caravan for 5k less than I paid for my Hymer, there seemed to be all sorts of reasons why I should do this, think it was the wife who tipped it towards the motorhome, no regrets. I used to drive one for work briefly, thought they were pretty good. The lads towed trailers delivering cars on them, could tow greater weights than a flatbed Ducato could carry. One guy even had a long wheel base Sprinter on the trailer once, told him he was stupid though, don`t do it again. I’m a builder/ landscaper so it’s my work and leisure vehicle, I tow a medium size single axle caravan and yes it’s effortless torque is the deciding factor 3.2 L automatic……is it the ideal tow vehicle I’m not so sure. My BMW M535D was better I’d say more stability lower centre of gravity.
Edited by hot metal on Tuesday 15th February 00:09
hot metal said:
You know, I very nearly had one of these, one was offered to me with a recent caravan for 5k less than I paid for my Hymer, there seemed to be all sorts of reasons why I should do this, think it was the wife who tipped it towards the motorhome, no regrets. I used to drive one for work briefly, thought they were pretty good. The lads towed trailers delivering cars on them, could tow greater weights than a flatbed Ducato could carry. One guy even had a long wheel base Sprinter on the trailer once, told him he was stupid though, don`t do it again.
It was the reverse for us fella Mrs Rat didn’t want a motor home…..she who must be obeyed…in most things Edited by hot metal on Tuesday 15th February 00:09
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