Obsession with VW campers. Why?
Discussion
Rambling post I am afraid....
I am currently looking at campervans. I live in France and thats where it would be used, plus Spain.
There are loads of options, and I am drawn to LWB Sprinter conversions because of the space and a "proper" bed.
But there are also LOADS of VW transporter/T5 things about, and while I just don't get them, I am strangely drawn to them. Can anyone explain why?
When I first started looking at them, I thought no way, too small, not enough space. I mean, can you really cook in them? And a rock and roll bed is not going to comfy is it. How the hell do people manage in them, they must be literally falling over each other.
But then I saw one with an awning attached, and as it will be used in France and Spain, I thought actually, because the weather is warmer, I don't suppose people really use the van so much when they have a nice tent attached. And cooking would be done on a BBQ anyway.
THEN I thought, hang on, i could get rid of the Range Rover and use the van for our long journeys back to the UK (which is pretty much all the RR is used for). And on top of all of that, they are small enough that when you are at a campsite you can just drive away from the awning and go and visit places for the day that you couldn't necessarily do with a big van.
Of course, the BIG issue is that I like my own toilet and shower which I have never seen in a VW, but i guess I could get over that.
So whats the obsession with them? Anyone got one that would like to clarify my thoughts please?
I am currently looking at campervans. I live in France and thats where it would be used, plus Spain.
There are loads of options, and I am drawn to LWB Sprinter conversions because of the space and a "proper" bed.
But there are also LOADS of VW transporter/T5 things about, and while I just don't get them, I am strangely drawn to them. Can anyone explain why?
When I first started looking at them, I thought no way, too small, not enough space. I mean, can you really cook in them? And a rock and roll bed is not going to comfy is it. How the hell do people manage in them, they must be literally falling over each other.
But then I saw one with an awning attached, and as it will be used in France and Spain, I thought actually, because the weather is warmer, I don't suppose people really use the van so much when they have a nice tent attached. And cooking would be done on a BBQ anyway.
THEN I thought, hang on, i could get rid of the Range Rover and use the van for our long journeys back to the UK (which is pretty much all the RR is used for). And on top of all of that, they are small enough that when you are at a campsite you can just drive away from the awning and go and visit places for the day that you couldn't necessarily do with a big van.
Of course, the BIG issue is that I like my own toilet and shower which I have never seen in a VW, but i guess I could get over that.
So whats the obsession with them? Anyone got one that would like to clarify my thoughts please?
Horses for courses I think - we have a short wheel base vito and it suits our needs well as we like to visit little coastal villages and drive down tiny country lanes which would be much harder in a huge gin palace on wheels.
Ours has an awning attachment so we park up, pitch the air beam awning and can then drive away in the van.
It doubles as my daily driver and fits in standard size bays so that aspect works well. Also easy to fit on the drive at home whereas a XL wheelbase high top van would be a bugger to park.
I don't get the VW obsession though, from what I hear reliability isn't all that.
Ours has an awning attachment so we park up, pitch the air beam awning and can then drive away in the van.
It doubles as my daily driver and fits in standard size bays so that aspect works well. Also easy to fit on the drive at home whereas a XL wheelbase high top van would be a bugger to park.
I don't get the VW obsession though, from what I hear reliability isn't all that.
Sprinters and Crafters are too narrow to make useful campers, as you cannot sleep across them.
They also rust and IMO are unreliable.
VW transporters are overpriced and looking on the T6forum, unreliable too.
Also that lifting roof: faffy, no stealth, needs care, and very heavy and up high.
Which leaves the Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans, which are the correct size and shape.
Also they are cheaper than VW transprters, but with proper standing headroom, heating, bathroom/showers and big gas and water containers.
5.4m is best for parking, but 6m far more common, look at Weinsberg/knaus, Burstner and Globecar IMO, but Autosleeper also seem nice, Hymer, Malibu etc also do them. All I mentioned are euro-layout (bed across back above garage), if you want read lounge / bed conversion choose a brit manufacturer.
Supply chain issues being whar they are, I'd recommend finding a 2015-2019 model, ideally the Boxer from 2018 on with the peugeot engine in it.
They also rust and IMO are unreliable.
VW transporters are overpriced and looking on the T6forum, unreliable too.
Also that lifting roof: faffy, no stealth, needs care, and very heavy and up high.
Which leaves the Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans, which are the correct size and shape.
Also they are cheaper than VW transprters, but with proper standing headroom, heating, bathroom/showers and big gas and water containers.
5.4m is best for parking, but 6m far more common, look at Weinsberg/knaus, Burstner and Globecar IMO, but Autosleeper also seem nice, Hymer, Malibu etc also do them. All I mentioned are euro-layout (bed across back above garage), if you want read lounge / bed conversion choose a brit manufacturer.
Supply chain issues being whar they are, I'd recommend finding a 2015-2019 model, ideally the Boxer from 2018 on with the peugeot engine in it.
If you are anywhere near Stuttgart there's a big Motorhome / CamperVan & Caravan show on from 14 - 21st Jan. The European shows are really good for having a look at everything on the market.
https://www.messe-stuttgart.de/cmt/besucher/die-me...
https://www.messe-stuttgart.de/cmt/besucher/die-me...
Globs said:
Which leaves the Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans, which are the correct size and shape.
Also they are cheaper than VW transprters, but with proper standing headroom, heating, bathroom/showers and big gas and water containers.
5.4m is best for parking, but 6m far more common, look at Weinsberg/knaus, Burstner and Globecar IMO, but Autosleeper also seem nice, Hymer, Malibu etc also do them. All I mentioned are euro-layout (bed across back above garage), if you want read lounge / bed conversion choose a brit manufacturer.
I'd agree with this if you want the max interior space - thou I currently have a 6m Sprinter based camper with a pop top. It has side pods which allows a transverse double bed in rear and another double in the top. This way you can use is stealth mode or full on camper van mode.Also they are cheaper than VW transprters, but with proper standing headroom, heating, bathroom/showers and big gas and water containers.
5.4m is best for parking, but 6m far more common, look at Weinsberg/knaus, Burstner and Globecar IMO, but Autosleeper also seem nice, Hymer, Malibu etc also do them. All I mentioned are euro-layout (bed across back above garage), if you want read lounge / bed conversion choose a brit manufacturer.
Edited by AlBondigaz on Tuesday 10th January 20:31
As mentioned earlier, really is horses for courses, and picking out what's best for your needs as there's a huge variety of sizes and interior configurations.
For the pair of us (plus dog) we have a '17 T6 California, it's a good size for our needs, and small enough that it's the daily driver. Anything bigger and we would need an additional car. Cooking wise, with limited to two burners only that rules out steak and chips, but for bog standard camping food it's fine. The sprung bed in the pop top is comfortable, and the diesel heater means 12 month camping is possible here in Scotland.
We didn't buy it because of the "scene" or because it was a VW, it was the right spec for us, and aided by a reasonable selection out there. In fact originally I was in the market for Transit conversion (ie Danbury or similar) but they are hard to find. Also considered a Marco Polo, but they are a bit too small in terms of bedspace.
For the pair of us (plus dog) we have a '17 T6 California, it's a good size for our needs, and small enough that it's the daily driver. Anything bigger and we would need an additional car. Cooking wise, with limited to two burners only that rules out steak and chips, but for bog standard camping food it's fine. The sprung bed in the pop top is comfortable, and the diesel heater means 12 month camping is possible here in Scotland.
We didn't buy it because of the "scene" or because it was a VW, it was the right spec for us, and aided by a reasonable selection out there. In fact originally I was in the market for Transit conversion (ie Danbury or similar) but they are hard to find. Also considered a Marco Polo, but they are a bit too small in terms of bedspace.
Edited by downthepub on Tuesday 10th January 20:46
Nice van, AlBondigaz, top of the range though 
Good idea about the show: I concur.
But go see a few before, else you'll be overwhelmed at the show and waste valuable time, ideally you need to look at all the basic types, and then home in at the show to your shortlist.
Good idea to buy there too - make sure the van exists, delays in build are now LEGENDARY !!
Good idea about the show: I concur.
But go see a few before, else you'll be overwhelmed at the show and waste valuable time, ideally you need to look at all the basic types, and then home in at the show to your shortlist.
Good idea to buy there too - make sure the van exists, delays in build are now LEGENDARY !!
[quote=ozzuk]I've a T5, 61plate ex RAC but the auto box and better engine. You do pay a hefty premium for the VW badge but they seem to hold their value against other marques. My friend has a newer converted Vivaro and it is worth far less (but you could argue better value).
I think it's an image thing, the T5/6 looks better than virtually any other converted van and tend to be high quality conversions (due to amount of choice of suppliers). You can of course build/get better if you want, but I'm talking the average purchase. And of course its a scene thing (which we don't care about).
Reliability, I've heard horror stories, we've had ours I think around 6 years and only spent on tyres and an issue with the EGR (conversion aside).
Other positives, it drives like a car but with better visibility, though we do have the 140 edition with the brilliant auto box. We are considering selling and doing our own conversion based on a larger van - Boxer style, but it means buying a car for daily use (another pro for the t5).
They don't seem to rust either, and pretty good on diesel.
I'd get another as they are just so easy to use - but it depends on your needs, if its just for camping there are better options, if you want a daily to use for camping they are great.
For balance, my sister bought one, but went for the engine that I said avoid and it had no end of troubles, cost a fortune to fix and the van was sold cheaply on.
Just to add...I saw the new transit camper offering at Goodwood, really good design, fantastic interior, then I saw the price...
I think it's an image thing, the T5/6 looks better than virtually any other converted van and tend to be high quality conversions (due to amount of choice of suppliers). You can of course build/get better if you want, but I'm talking the average purchase. And of course its a scene thing (which we don't care about).
Reliability, I've heard horror stories, we've had ours I think around 6 years and only spent on tyres and an issue with the EGR (conversion aside).
Other positives, it drives like a car but with better visibility, though we do have the 140 edition with the brilliant auto box. We are considering selling and doing our own conversion based on a larger van - Boxer style, but it means buying a car for daily use (another pro for the t5).
They don't seem to rust either, and pretty good on diesel.
I'd get another as they are just so easy to use - but it depends on your needs, if its just for camping there are better options, if you want a daily to use for camping they are great.
For balance, my sister bought one, but went for the engine that I said avoid and it had no end of troubles, cost a fortune to fix and the van was sold cheaply on.
Just to add...I saw the new transit camper offering at Goodwood, really good design, fantastic interior, then I saw the price...
Having recently bought one, I can offer some insights.
I'm fairly conservative (not into modded cars or bling) and I hate diesels and have never owned one before. My dream car is a 911 and when I finally ended up in a position to be able to afford a decent one, I spent mega bucks on a diesel van instead! I'm still not sure why myself but suspect It goes back to my childhood when I used to lust after type 2 bay window vans. Always wanted a camper but never got into the lifestyle until this summer. The VW's just have that "cool" factor which you either get or don't.
I also needed something that can accommodate me, the Mrs. and our young son so having the pop top means we can all sleep in it fine. I originally looked at bigger vans with a fixed bed but it needs to house us all.
Although I work from home and don't need a daily or commuter car, I did want something I could use as a car when the Mrs. is out in the family car. Tip runs, Ikea runs, supermarket trips, etc. The bigger vans are fine if you have access to a car full time and it's just used for day trips and camping but the T6 is ideal as a family can which can also be used as a camper.
As I say, I'm fairly conservative in my cars but went all out with the van. It has all the pointless things that go with the "scene" but I've ever owned a vehicle that gets so much positive attention.
In terms of usage, mine was always going to be a day van for nice trips to the coast on a sunny Saturday with the occasional weekend camping trip thrown in. If you're into proper camping holidays for a week or two at a time then it's probably not for you. In terms of a shower, I'm a less hardcore camper and tend to stay on sites with facilities and an electrical hookup. Never really had the urge to wild camp in it yet.
Dealer picture:
I'm fairly conservative (not into modded cars or bling) and I hate diesels and have never owned one before. My dream car is a 911 and when I finally ended up in a position to be able to afford a decent one, I spent mega bucks on a diesel van instead! I'm still not sure why myself but suspect It goes back to my childhood when I used to lust after type 2 bay window vans. Always wanted a camper but never got into the lifestyle until this summer. The VW's just have that "cool" factor which you either get or don't.
I also needed something that can accommodate me, the Mrs. and our young son so having the pop top means we can all sleep in it fine. I originally looked at bigger vans with a fixed bed but it needs to house us all.
Although I work from home and don't need a daily or commuter car, I did want something I could use as a car when the Mrs. is out in the family car. Tip runs, Ikea runs, supermarket trips, etc. The bigger vans are fine if you have access to a car full time and it's just used for day trips and camping but the T6 is ideal as a family can which can also be used as a camper.
As I say, I'm fairly conservative in my cars but went all out with the van. It has all the pointless things that go with the "scene" but I've ever owned a vehicle that gets so much positive attention.
In terms of usage, mine was always going to be a day van for nice trips to the coast on a sunny Saturday with the occasional weekend camping trip thrown in. If you're into proper camping holidays for a week or two at a time then it's probably not for you. In terms of a shower, I'm a less hardcore camper and tend to stay on sites with facilities and an electrical hookup. Never really had the urge to wild camp in it yet.
Dealer picture:
All good information, thank you.
The fact the VW is useable as a car as well is very tempting, but the usability of Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans as suggested is also very tempting.
Of course, the whole caravan thing is temping (I am used to towing trailers and already have the car to pull it with) because they cost so much less. But I just dont think I can cope with being a caravanner.
The investigation continues!
The fact the VW is useable as a car as well is very tempting, but the usability of Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans as suggested is also very tempting.
Of course, the whole caravan thing is temping (I am used to towing trailers and already have the car to pull it with) because they cost so much less. But I just dont think I can cope with being a caravanner.
The investigation continues!
Steviesam said:
All good information, thank you.
The fact the VW is useable as a car as well is very tempting, but the usability of Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans as suggested is also very tempting.
Of course, the whole caravan thing is temping (I am used to towing trailers and already have the car to pull it with) because they cost so much less. But I just dont think I can cope with being a caravanner.
The investigation continues!
I didn't see myself as a Caravaner and looked at Campers, but then realised i couldn't stand up in it, fit in the bed or have a wee, so got a caravan (Swift basecamp) it works for us much better than a camper vanThe fact the VW is useable as a car as well is very tempting, but the usability of Ducato/Jumper/Boxer vans as suggested is also very tempting.
Of course, the whole caravan thing is temping (I am used to towing trailers and already have the car to pull it with) because they cost so much less. But I just dont think I can cope with being a caravanner.
The investigation continues!
stevemcs said:
I didn't see myself as a Caravaner and looked at Campers, but then realised i couldn't stand up in it, fit in the bed or have a wee, so got a caravan (Swift basecamp) it works for us much better than a camper van
And thats the thing. In most ways they will suit me better. More space, more luxury for a fat middle aged man, and as mentioned, they have a toilet. And christ they are less than half the price of a camper.I just worry a bit about the caravan wobble. I have always towed trailers that usually are triple axle and have weight on them, so its never really been an issue. I thought a twin axle would be good, more stable and less worrying in the event of a puncture, but i keep getting told I cant stop in aires with a caravan and that twin axles are not welcome on sites. Not sure how prevalent this "ban" is.
ChocolateFrog said:
Can be used as a car, fits under 2m height restrictions. Does over 30mpg without trying while also providing adequate performance.
Not everyone has the ways and means to run a dedicated 6 berth camper.
Ran one as my only transport for a while and would get another.
This. Plus there’s lots of help and advice due their popularity. I know it’s a ‘scene’ but that isn’t necessarily a hinderance. Other half has a T3 which this year is MOT and tax exempt. Useable as a daily, fits in a regular car park, no permit needed for the recycling centre/local tip runs, can park up and camp out on a comfy double bed, be able to stand up and cook, make a cuppa. Great all rounder. Not everyone has the ways and means to run a dedicated 6 berth camper.
Ran one as my only transport for a while and would get another.
The thoughts about caravans are interesting.
My thoughts:
I hate bigger caravans, no payload, faff to connect the pipes (fresh water and drain), big old lumps to tow, can't park so easily, have to stay at one site due to the time to pack/unpack.
Trailer tents: add on a few hours of faff each side.
But campers tend to suit proper touring: i.e. europe, as the big club monopoly in the UK means we have no aires, and idiot councils stick up 'no overnighting' instead of aires. But only because they are all shortsighted morons.
The issue of having to own a car + camper too, is a pain, yes a sub 2m van is useful, but the real problem is idiot councils making obstacles, so we have to forgo comfort and choice due to their limited intellect.
However.. SMALL caravans make a LOT of sense in my view. You don't actually need a large caravan, a bathroom, bed and kitchen is all that's needed. Even an Elddis Xplore 304 may be bigger than you need. Also some small caravans have cool doors for bikes etc (Swift basecamp etc). Small enough to manhandle around the pitch too, easy to tow etc.
So the use case is to use campsites and leave it as a posh tent, use the car to get about, and then it's also easy to pack up when you want to move on.
The use case of a camper IME is slightly different, and if reasonable big, in the UK is sort of like a big caravan with a motor, and not so easy to pack up and use. Campers are best IMO for touring europe and festivals, councils here have ruined most places worth visiting with their greed for parking: i.e. Cornwall etc, appear to prefer expense and hostility, instead of the european Aire system that gets tourists into towns.
My thoughts:
I hate bigger caravans, no payload, faff to connect the pipes (fresh water and drain), big old lumps to tow, can't park so easily, have to stay at one site due to the time to pack/unpack.
Trailer tents: add on a few hours of faff each side.
But campers tend to suit proper touring: i.e. europe, as the big club monopoly in the UK means we have no aires, and idiot councils stick up 'no overnighting' instead of aires. But only because they are all shortsighted morons.
The issue of having to own a car + camper too, is a pain, yes a sub 2m van is useful, but the real problem is idiot councils making obstacles, so we have to forgo comfort and choice due to their limited intellect.
However.. SMALL caravans make a LOT of sense in my view. You don't actually need a large caravan, a bathroom, bed and kitchen is all that's needed. Even an Elddis Xplore 304 may be bigger than you need. Also some small caravans have cool doors for bikes etc (Swift basecamp etc). Small enough to manhandle around the pitch too, easy to tow etc.
So the use case is to use campsites and leave it as a posh tent, use the car to get about, and then it's also easy to pack up when you want to move on.
The use case of a camper IME is slightly different, and if reasonable big, in the UK is sort of like a big caravan with a motor, and not so easy to pack up and use. Campers are best IMO for touring europe and festivals, councils here have ruined most places worth visiting with their greed for parking: i.e. Cornwall etc, appear to prefer expense and hostility, instead of the european Aire system that gets tourists into towns.
I agree for touring a camper makes sense, although for me if I went across to Europe i'd want something based around a LWB van, The problem with "aires" would be the great British public, it seems they are doing there best to upset all the locals in Scotland by dumping everything at the side of the road.
I bought one about 11months ago - a 2017 T6 Cali Ocean. I’ve done about 9k miles in it both as daily driver and camper for myself only at this stage with my Mountainbike and/or various stealthy solo park ups when time permits. I’m off to do the NC500 (solo) in it next week.
I’m very surprised as how much I (and the family) love it.
I came from the situation of being a motorhomer, culminating in living in two of my vans during a divorce (there’s a thread on here somewhere) and then ending up with a large house, enormous Motorhome and small baby. No time or use for the Motorhome for a bit, so sold it about 15months ago. It only took 4months for me to miss the ability to have impromptu get aways and the Cali seemed to offer the best mix of practicality, day to day useability and camping possibility.
I came out of a Porsche MacanS, Cayenne GTS then brand new X5 before buying the Cali and although I miss the performance of the other cars, the Cali acquits itself superbly over long distances (so comfortable) and it’s practicality has earned it a permanent place on the fleet due to its ability to carry anything (straw bales, bar stools, furniture….you name it) and also provide a cool place to cook up a brew in the warmth (that heater is awesome) either just because or on family days out.
I went for the Cali due to the build quality, known residuals and layout. I have a Porta Potti 335 stored under the sink for emergencies when stealth camping or to put in a toilet tent on sites. And the beds (both downstairs and upstairs) are very comfy.
I’ve done a bit of a blog on recent trips/usage over on BMWLand if you want to take a look.
https://www.bmwland.org.uk/index.php?threads/calif...
All in all, I can see the Cali being with us for a long period of time and the missus’ car (currently an X1) being played with to optimise the mix of utility and fun on the fleet. But we wouldn’t be without it now.
I’m very surprised as how much I (and the family) love it.
I came from the situation of being a motorhomer, culminating in living in two of my vans during a divorce (there’s a thread on here somewhere) and then ending up with a large house, enormous Motorhome and small baby. No time or use for the Motorhome for a bit, so sold it about 15months ago. It only took 4months for me to miss the ability to have impromptu get aways and the Cali seemed to offer the best mix of practicality, day to day useability and camping possibility.
I came out of a Porsche MacanS, Cayenne GTS then brand new X5 before buying the Cali and although I miss the performance of the other cars, the Cali acquits itself superbly over long distances (so comfortable) and it’s practicality has earned it a permanent place on the fleet due to its ability to carry anything (straw bales, bar stools, furniture….you name it) and also provide a cool place to cook up a brew in the warmth (that heater is awesome) either just because or on family days out.
I went for the Cali due to the build quality, known residuals and layout. I have a Porta Potti 335 stored under the sink for emergencies when stealth camping or to put in a toilet tent on sites. And the beds (both downstairs and upstairs) are very comfy.
I’ve done a bit of a blog on recent trips/usage over on BMWLand if you want to take a look.
https://www.bmwland.org.uk/index.php?threads/calif...
All in all, I can see the Cali being with us for a long period of time and the missus’ car (currently an X1) being played with to optimise the mix of utility and fun on the fleet. But we wouldn’t be without it now.
Edited by Spuffington on Wednesday 11th January 20:20
Edited by Spuffington on Wednesday 11th January 20:21
Apart from the scene, I think the reason for the popularity of VW Campers is the perfect size. They are just the right size for a family of four and acceptable in parking spaces. The next bearable alternatives are Mazda Bongos and Mitsubishi Delicas, but these a little smaller, and often aged imports. Other ones such as the Nissan NV200 are too small.
Also the VW Camper scene seems to have created itself as an evolution from old split screens. Neither Mercedes with the Vito and other van manufacturers have marketed the lifestyle aspect of van ownership as well as VW.
Also the VW Camper scene seems to have created itself as an evolution from old split screens. Neither Mercedes with the Vito and other van manufacturers have marketed the lifestyle aspect of van ownership as well as VW.
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