Discussion
My current situation is that im in the first year of a 3 year product design technology degree, at a poor university not really enjoying the work. Upon graduating im tied into the best part of 4 years in the army as they have helped fund university and 6th form for me.
How things are at the moment its going to be 7 years before I can settle down into life and start doing more of what I want to do. Ive always wanted to be involved in the car industry but I feel at this rate, I'll go in a lot older and less experienced than i possily could. The decision to go into the army was made when I was 16 as it was the only option to enable me to stay at my school for 6th form.
So, do I:
a) Stick at it at uni, get a meaningless degree, go into the army, do my 3 years and then see where I end up.
b) Quit uni now, quit the scholarship ( I have to repay all I've recieved but this isnt a big issue) and get a job at the bottom of the car industry ladder.
c) Quit uni, quit the scholarship and get an apprenticeship (if I can find one).
d) any other ideas?
I am a very practical person and don't really get on with standard education methods because I'm totally un academic. My main concern is getting a decent job after leaving the security of university life.
Bernie
How things are at the moment its going to be 7 years before I can settle down into life and start doing more of what I want to do. Ive always wanted to be involved in the car industry but I feel at this rate, I'll go in a lot older and less experienced than i possily could. The decision to go into the army was made when I was 16 as it was the only option to enable me to stay at my school for 6th form.
So, do I:
a) Stick at it at uni, get a meaningless degree, go into the army, do my 3 years and then see where I end up.
b) Quit uni now, quit the scholarship ( I have to repay all I've recieved but this isnt a big issue) and get a job at the bottom of the car industry ladder.
c) Quit uni, quit the scholarship and get an apprenticeship (if I can find one).
d) any other ideas?
I am a very practical person and don't really get on with standard education methods because I'm totally un academic. My main concern is getting a decent job after leaving the security of university life.
Bernie
Well Busta, I can't really advise at the level you are at, but, an apprenticeship? Really!! Putting on a pair of overalls takes 1 min. It takes at least 40 yrs to get them off. 
you are ignored totally and are NOT valued, someone with a two year course in managemant economics will be your Boss, even though you will have to take the more important descisions.
Something for you to remember:
People who work sitting down get paid more than people who work standing up.
Ogden Nash. (1902-1971)
you are ignored totally and are NOT valued, someone with a two year course in managemant economics will be your Boss, even though you will have to take the more important descisions. Something for you to remember:
People who work sitting down get paid more than people who work standing up.
Ogden Nash. (1902-1971)
I could never live with a job where i spend all day sitting down. I loathe using computers for work and I would rather do something myslef to my own standards than tell somebody else to do it without knowing if they are going to do a good job. An apperenticeship struck me as a simple way of getting decent practical skills whilst earning money although I agree the money will be poor and the work will be dull.
Anyone know what qualifications/ experience I would need to start working in a workshop for a reputable automotive engineer?
Bernie
Anyone know what qualifications/ experience I would need to start working in a workshop for a reputable automotive engineer?
Bernie
Well Busta,I would urge you to lean towards your more accademic side. I know the call of the practical,for that's where I went wrong, that was my mistake. If you can, take: "the high road",. you can always do the practical as a "hobby". Only YOU can make that descision though, whatever you decide, Good Luck! 
'bin thinkin' busta, I, bring in from time to time, contractors for this or that.
They almost always are, very experienced people, from industries now long gone in my area. The availability (at the moment is large)but soon to ALL retire with NO replacement,so the skills base will be gone.
I'm now bringing in computer specialists from India?
It's all great news for the capitalists I've no doubt!!! but what for us?
Aim to work for yourself at some point. dave{/i]
>> Edited by 8Pack on Friday 28th January 03:50
They almost always are, very experienced people, from industries now long gone in my area. The availability (at the moment is large)but soon to ALL retire with NO replacement,so the skills base will be gone.
I'm now bringing in computer specialists from India?
It's all great news for the capitalists I've no doubt!!! but what for us?
Aim to work for yourself at some point. dave{/i]
>> Edited by 8Pack on Friday 28th January 03:50
How about paying back the scholarship money and staying at Uni ? That way you avoid the army service.
Having been an apprentice myself (at Marconi Defence) I can confirm what everyone else says, management will treat you very badly. You will almost certainly be on a different payscale/grading scheme than graduates (ie. much less money and harder to get promotion). After several years of banging my head against the wall of management stupidity I ended up doing a part time degree. Once I had this everything got much easier. So I say stick with your degree, it will be worth it in the end.
Bob
Having been an apprentice myself (at Marconi Defence) I can confirm what everyone else says, management will treat you very badly. You will almost certainly be on a different payscale/grading scheme than graduates (ie. much less money and harder to get promotion). After several years of banging my head against the wall of management stupidity I ended up doing a part time degree. Once I had this everything got much easier. So I say stick with your degree, it will be worth it in the end.
Bob
I do tend to agree, I started with an apprentiship (at marconi space and defence) It took me a long while to find a middle manangement position. The best part about the position I found is, It is 50% hands on, and 50% paper pushing. It pays nicely, and I get my hands dirty. If you want to be payed well then stay at uni, you will earn more, for quite a while.
RedLCRB0b said:
How about paying back the scholarship money and staying at Uni ? That way you avoid the army service.
I agree on this one. If you started uni you should see it through. No one wants a quitter.
Pay off the damn army, get your degree, and find a job that you are clearly bright enough to do. It's an old fashioned method, but I'm sure come 20 /30 years time, degrees will count far more than they do now. Just my humble opinion.
Busta this is near identical to the thread you posted on this topic a couple of weeks ago.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=149375
Have you looked into any of the options that were suggested then?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&h=&t=149375
Have you looked into any of the options that were suggested then?
Dont quit your degree, you may not use it in the future but any employer who sees a quitter will pick someone who finished with a third class before you.
Why not go into the Royal engineers when you finish, that way you have some excellent training (better than most apprenticeships), good experience and a useful degree. You will then be a damn good prospect for any employer.
Dont quit, it will screw with your head too!
Why not go into the Royal engineers when you finish, that way you have some excellent training (better than most apprenticeships), good experience and a useful degree. You will then be a damn good prospect for any employer.
Dont quit, it will screw with your head too!
As I found to my cost. Cheers for all the advice guys, my only problem with sticking with my current degree is that it is hideously basic and having spoken to some people in their final years they didnt seem much better off with the 3 years of education than I am at the moment.
Is it really worth it just for a piece of paper that, at the end of the day, i could probably print off the internet and nobody would be any wiser? And our workshops dont even have a welder for christ's sake!
Sparkythecat, i did look at the Myerscough College site however the courses they offer are all to motorsport based. Thanks for pointing me in their direction anyway.
I think I will stick with the army scholarship as it will at least offer me some security when I graduate but I'm going to re-think my degree and have a look around to see what other other universities offer. Coventry do a vehicle design course which is very appealing, although the location puts me of slightly.
Cheers for all your good advice guys,
Bernie
Is it really worth it just for a piece of paper that, at the end of the day, i could probably print off the internet and nobody would be any wiser? And our workshops dont even have a welder for christ's sake!
Sparkythecat, i did look at the Myerscough College site however the courses they offer are all to motorsport based. Thanks for pointing me in their direction anyway.
I think I will stick with the army scholarship as it will at least offer me some security when I graduate but I'm going to re-think my degree and have a look around to see what other other universities offer. Coventry do a vehicle design course which is very appealing, although the location puts me of slightly.
Cheers for all your good advice guys,
Bernie
Cant you finish your degree and then pay the army back the scholarship?
Any engineering degree is going to be heavily academic based and won't be very practical at all....
I'd advise you to finish your degree and then see what relative jobs you can find for it....
You can start a mechanics apprentiship any time but you can't get any higher positions without doing a degree and/or gaining alot of experience
Any engineering degree is going to be heavily academic based and won't be very practical at all....
I'd advise you to finish your degree and then see what relative jobs you can find for it....
You can start a mechanics apprentiship any time but you can't get any higher positions without doing a degree and/or gaining alot of experience
Talking from the experience a close friend went through, I don't see it harming you finishing your course and going into the army for three years. In fact, if anything, the experience would help your cause.
The friend I had did the course you're talking about in Coventry. When he finished it still took him 2 or 3 years of grubbing around doing unrelated jobs before he got into the industry. He used the time between finishing Uni and getting his dream job gathering experience and ultimately it paid off. Coming straight from Uni he'd found that he was up against it, going for jobs where someone with the qualifications and experience beat him to the draw.
If you knock Uni on the head now you're only going to make life so much harder for yourself in the long run. Enjoy your time at Uni, there's plenty of time for you to get your dream job later, when you're ready for it.
The friend I had did the course you're talking about in Coventry. When he finished it still took him 2 or 3 years of grubbing around doing unrelated jobs before he got into the industry. He used the time between finishing Uni and getting his dream job gathering experience and ultimately it paid off. Coming straight from Uni he'd found that he was up against it, going for jobs where someone with the qualifications and experience beat him to the draw.
If you knock Uni on the head now you're only going to make life so much harder for yourself in the long run. Enjoy your time at Uni, there's plenty of time for you to get your dream job later, when you're ready for it.
Mindgam3-I could do but then I'd have to repay another £6k on top of my stundent loan. My degree is in Product design technology. It was the subject I loved at school but at uni appears to be a subject for halfwits, to whom it was the only thing they were vaguely good at at school. I want to move onwards and upwards from the products i designed and built at school ( Chairs, Bikes, GoKarts etc) but at the moment we are building torches and childrens toys.
Bernie
>> Edited by busta on Friday 28th January 14:32
Bernie
>> Edited by busta on Friday 28th January 14:32
Busta.
All good things come to those who wait.
Firstly what regiment of the army has sponsered you through University? Is this the officers sponsership you are on?
I would suggest if its somebody like the REME or RE you will benefit greatly, especially with all the courses they get you to do. Even if you end up in a logisitics role or something options still come along for your HGV licence and command courses. Every course you do will add an extra string to your bow come CV time. Whilst I appreciate that the current items you are on might not float your boat, wait till the final year and you should get pretty much carte blanche to choose your project with a certain remit usually. The degree is vitally important if you want any sort of job within the Autotmoive industry after quitting the army, especially if you want to join and OEM.
Can I reccomend that perhaps you look at project enginering within the automotive industry, I've done this myself and is ususally the starting point. Generally this requires a good mix of hands on project get your hands dirty stuff, helping the customer at build phases getting prototype parts made,and shipped, but it also invloves supplier liason work dealing with the customer, yes you have to sit in front of a computer for some of the time but there are very few jobs where this won't happen.
If you really want to become a grease Monkey then another option is to join one of the big OE's as a fitter / technician on an internal apprenticeship, hence the reason to make your CV look good with lots of courses as you will be up against stiff competition for the limited places. Look on Jaguar, Landrovers, ford's Aston Martins, lotus's and Bentleys web sites for details about graduate apprentiships.
If your ultimate aim is to get into motorsport then I would suggest the following course of action.
Getting into an F1 team first of is alomst unheard of, as such I would reccomend you spend your weekend offering help to somebody doing local rallies or perhaps a samller F3 or even Formula renault team etc. Get experience with these smaller teams over weekends and spare time and eventually again your resume will be gin to look more attractive to F1 empolyers. Another alternative is to try and get an apprenticeship at somebody like Prodrive.
Getting back to the beginning. If you feel that the University course is not for you and you feel a rather more hands on HNC or HND would be bettter than this route is open, but remember the money you will have to repay to the Army. Also I would suggest an HND or HNC in an engineering discipline is the minimum you will need to even get a foot on the ladder in either the motorsport or OEM arenas, so some further education is required.
If you want some more information then mail me offline and I will give you some more details about how I entered the automotive field and what I did to get where I am.
All good things come to those who wait.
Firstly what regiment of the army has sponsered you through University? Is this the officers sponsership you are on?
I would suggest if its somebody like the REME or RE you will benefit greatly, especially with all the courses they get you to do. Even if you end up in a logisitics role or something options still come along for your HGV licence and command courses. Every course you do will add an extra string to your bow come CV time. Whilst I appreciate that the current items you are on might not float your boat, wait till the final year and you should get pretty much carte blanche to choose your project with a certain remit usually. The degree is vitally important if you want any sort of job within the Autotmoive industry after quitting the army, especially if you want to join and OEM.
Can I reccomend that perhaps you look at project enginering within the automotive industry, I've done this myself and is ususally the starting point. Generally this requires a good mix of hands on project get your hands dirty stuff, helping the customer at build phases getting prototype parts made,and shipped, but it also invloves supplier liason work dealing with the customer, yes you have to sit in front of a computer for some of the time but there are very few jobs where this won't happen.
If you really want to become a grease Monkey then another option is to join one of the big OE's as a fitter / technician on an internal apprenticeship, hence the reason to make your CV look good with lots of courses as you will be up against stiff competition for the limited places. Look on Jaguar, Landrovers, ford's Aston Martins, lotus's and Bentleys web sites for details about graduate apprentiships.
If your ultimate aim is to get into motorsport then I would suggest the following course of action.
Getting into an F1 team first of is alomst unheard of, as such I would reccomend you spend your weekend offering help to somebody doing local rallies or perhaps a samller F3 or even Formula renault team etc. Get experience with these smaller teams over weekends and spare time and eventually again your resume will be gin to look more attractive to F1 empolyers. Another alternative is to try and get an apprenticeship at somebody like Prodrive.
Getting back to the beginning. If you feel that the University course is not for you and you feel a rather more hands on HNC or HND would be bettter than this route is open, but remember the money you will have to repay to the Army. Also I would suggest an HND or HNC in an engineering discipline is the minimum you will need to even get a foot on the ladder in either the motorsport or OEM arenas, so some further education is required.
If you want some more information then mail me offline and I will give you some more details about how I entered the automotive field and what I did to get where I am.
finish uni otherwise all the time you have spent there will have been wasted. pay back the army if you can and try to get into something you want to do. try a graduate training scheme - that's what i am going for. but it's not easy, even if you do the degree you want it's no guarantee of a decent job - i did automotive engineering at loughborough, couldn't find a job so did a precision engineering masters, and there is still nothing out there - everyone wants experience. now i am just temping but at least it's automotive related - a foot in the door is all you need (hopefully ). good luck
). good luckWell I did that, had I stayed the course, I would have spent my life very differently. I quit my course which would have lead to a career in the RAF, and then who knows what after that,at the time three years seemed like a lifetime and I wanted to get on with things.I am not afraid to say, that whilst I havn't done badly,I wish I had had the patience to complete that course, now at approaching 50, three years is nowt, and I know I have missed a great deal of adventure and probably a satisfying and rewarding career where I wouldn't have had to deal with the general public.
I have a friend who's son has just completed his army service following a sponsored degree, he had the time of his life and as an ex officer had no trouble launching his career in civy street. Retired officers are sought after by many employers.
I have a friend who's son has just completed his army service following a sponsored degree, he had the time of his life and as an ex officer had no trouble launching his career in civy street. Retired officers are sought after by many employers.
Thanks again guys.
I have made the decision to quit my degree at Northumbria and will hopefully start a Vehicle Design degree at Coventry next year. I am still waiting to hear as to whether I can skip the 1st year based on my previous experiences with the subject.
Anyone know how this will affect my loan? I havent had a chance to contact the loans people yet.
Tvrslag- I am sponsored by the RE, have taken my RCB and have decided to stick with the bursary so I will be going to Sandhurst upon graduating.
Thanks again for all the advice, it hasn't been an easy decision to make!
Bernie
I have made the decision to quit my degree at Northumbria and will hopefully start a Vehicle Design degree at Coventry next year. I am still waiting to hear as to whether I can skip the 1st year based on my previous experiences with the subject.
Anyone know how this will affect my loan? I havent had a chance to contact the loans people yet.
Tvrslag- I am sponsored by the RE, have taken my RCB and have decided to stick with the bursary so I will be going to Sandhurst upon graduating.
Thanks again for all the advice, it hasn't been an easy decision to make!
Bernie
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