How to cut congestion on M-Ways
Discussion
I don't know if this has been posted before, but after spending the last 2 days on the M1, M25 and M11 I believe there is a solution. (I haven't spent 2 days solid on here, I have been home in between 
)
The government currently say that roads are congested because of weight of traffic. WRONG
The roads grind to a halt because of a few factors.
1. Lorry drivers racing each other by overtaking, because one can go 1mph faster than the other.
This blocks 2 lanes leaving just the one lane for all other traffic
2. Numpties who think the 3 lanes are called Slow, middle and fast. No.....they are call inside, middle and outside and you can go as fast as legally possible
in each of them.
How can we sort out the above problems to facilitate (bought a dictionary today) better traffic flow?
Introduce "Undertaking". We all mirror signal manoeuvre when we pull out to overtake on the right (everyone except Vectra man) and do the same when we pull back in. It's the same principle either way, we all have to check the indside lane when we pull back in just imagine instead of just changing lanes you are doing it to overtake. Easy.
I mention this because both this evening and yesterday evening I had to contend with idiots driving in the middle and outside lanes when the inside lane was completely empty. After driving up behind one such
I flashed my light, indicated left and flashed my lights again. Nothing.... brain dead.....so I made a point of undertaking. I'm sure we all do it so why isn't it just made officially legal?
Whaddaya al think?
Oh and the solution to the lorries problem........
ban them from the motorways and send all freight by train.
>>> Edited by Fourwheeldrift on Thursday 26th September 21:18
) The government currently say that roads are congested because of weight of traffic. WRONG
The roads grind to a halt because of a few factors.
1. Lorry drivers racing each other by overtaking, because one can go 1mph faster than the other.
This blocks 2 lanes leaving just the one lane for all other traffic
2. Numpties who think the 3 lanes are called Slow, middle and fast. No.....they are call inside, middle and outside and you can go as fast as legally possible
in each of them. How can we sort out the above problems to facilitate (bought a dictionary today) better traffic flow?
Introduce "Undertaking". We all mirror signal manoeuvre when we pull out to overtake on the right (everyone except Vectra man) and do the same when we pull back in. It's the same principle either way, we all have to check the indside lane when we pull back in just imagine instead of just changing lanes you are doing it to overtake. Easy. I mention this because both this evening and yesterday evening I had to contend with idiots driving in the middle and outside lanes when the inside lane was completely empty. After driving up behind one such
I flashed my light, indicated left and flashed my lights again. Nothing.... brain dead.....so I made a point of undertaking. I'm sure we all do it so why isn't it just made officially legal? Whaddaya al think?
Oh and the solution to the lorries problem........
ban them from the motorways and send all freight by train.
>>> Edited by Fourwheeldrift on Thursday 26th September 21:18
quote:
As for middle lane hoggers, I always undertake. As I understand the Road Traffic Act, there's nothing to stop me as long as I'm careful.
see below point 242
www.roads.dft.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/23.shtml#241
Exactly.
(I've been teaching my niece to drive this summer, spent many evenings going through the highway code).
It says;
So I can undertake. Right?
Anyway, the Highway Code is different to the Road Traffic Act.
>> Edited by spnracing on Thursday 26th September 22:04
(I've been teaching my niece to drive this summer, spent many evenings going through the highway code).
It says;
quote:
In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. >
So I can undertake. Right?
Anyway, the Highway Code is different to the Road Traffic Act.
>> Edited by spnracing on Thursday 26th September 22:04
If we were to follow your suggestion of sending freight by rail, we would all starve. The society that we have created demands the "Just in time" method of stock control. This is in part due to the lack of space dedicated to warehousing at most stores and also the lack of pactience that most people posess. You are quite correct in your assumption that the use of rail for movement of freight would clear a lot of HGV traffic from the motorways, but unfortunately, the British railway system cannot cope with the amount of passenger/freight traffic it currently has let alone the massive influx that a lorry ban would create.
This coupled with the need to move goods to and from the railhead, would also serve to cause even more congestion on the city streets as every train arriving at its desination would have to have dedicated fleets of delivery vehicles to decant the load from the goods yard to its final destination.
HGV traffic on our motorways is often a problem to motorists that are just ignorant of what its like to drive a truck. Most modern vehicles can call upon around 300-500 horsepower and yet these monsters are restricted to 56mph. This would not prove too problematic if every vehicle were to regulated to Exactly the same speed, but this is physically impossible andtherefore the guy whos truck will go a little faster will obviously overtake, Speed Matters, even at 44 ton up! Inertia is also a moajor factor in this jockeying for position. Once a heavy vehicle has lost momentum, it can be miles before the speed can be regained.
In my opinion, the problem does not lie with the trucks, but with the car drivers who are either ignorant and stick to archaic speed limits, or are too frightend to move past the lorries.
British Rail: We're getting there! Yeah Right!
This coupled with the need to move goods to and from the railhead, would also serve to cause even more congestion on the city streets as every train arriving at its desination would have to have dedicated fleets of delivery vehicles to decant the load from the goods yard to its final destination.
HGV traffic on our motorways is often a problem to motorists that are just ignorant of what its like to drive a truck. Most modern vehicles can call upon around 300-500 horsepower and yet these monsters are restricted to 56mph. This would not prove too problematic if every vehicle were to regulated to Exactly the same speed, but this is physically impossible andtherefore the guy whos truck will go a little faster will obviously overtake, Speed Matters, even at 44 ton up! Inertia is also a moajor factor in this jockeying for position. Once a heavy vehicle has lost momentum, it can be miles before the speed can be regained.
In my opinion, the problem does not lie with the trucks, but with the car drivers who are either ignorant and stick to archaic speed limits, or are too frightend to move past the lorries.
British Rail: We're getting there! Yeah Right!
quote:
Most modern vehicles can call upon around 300-500 horsepower
I agree with everything you've said apart from this - exactly which vehicles are you referring to?!?!? I've owned two rally cars, two race cars, two TVR's and whole host of other 'sports' cars - and never owned one anywhere near 300BHP - never mind 500.....
Most regular motorway hold-ups that are cited to "sheer weight of traffic" are caused by people driving too close to the car in front.
At motorway junctions, the jams are caused by cars trying to enter that have no space to join the motorway, hence they resort to pushing out and slowing the car they have pushed out on.
If all cars and HGV's allowed a decent space between eachother these jams would not occur.
This behaviour accounts for most other motorway hold-ups too.
At motorway junctions, the jams are caused by cars trying to enter that have no space to join the motorway, hence they resort to pushing out and slowing the car they have pushed out on.
If all cars and HGV's allowed a decent space between eachother these jams would not occur.
This behaviour accounts for most other motorway hold-ups too.
quote:
...[snip]
HGV traffic on our motorways is often a problem to motorists that are just ignorant of what its like to drive a truck. Most modern vehicles can call upon around 300-500 horsepower and yet these monsters are restricted to 56mph. [/snip]...
56mph, who are you trying to kid. Most HGV traffic seems to be able to keep up a steady 70mph (indicated by GPS not tacho) when i have been following them. I have no problem with HGVs overtaking each other, as has been pointed out momentum is everything, however a little consideration at times would not go amiss
[edit]
spnracing - Many HGVs are in the 300-500bhp range, they just have a bit more mass to move !
Bob
>> Edited by bob the planner on Thursday 26th September 22:40
Well, here's my tuppeny's worth.
In the Channel Tunnel, they load all the lorries onto one train, then the train goes to another side, they unload the train and the lorries go on their way.
So... how about regional train/lorry depots. Your a foreign lorry travelling to Newcastle??
Fine. Get off the Le Shuttle. Get onto the Folkestone-Birmingham lorry train. At the lorry depot (where those bound for the Midlands would depart) you board another train bound for Newcastle.
Lorries would only need to travel ahort distances.
The result???
Less congestion on Motorways
Less pollution
Better use of the railways (the Government call it Integrated transport)
The Haulage companies save fuel prices and wear-and-tear on their fleet
The downsides???
Hmmm... The lorries have to do the last bit of the journey anyway, so they last part is not affected
The Governemnt will loose money because of lost fuel revenue. Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Of course. THERES THE REASON
Well, I think its a good idea.
In the Channel Tunnel, they load all the lorries onto one train, then the train goes to another side, they unload the train and the lorries go on their way.
So... how about regional train/lorry depots. Your a foreign lorry travelling to Newcastle??
Fine. Get off the Le Shuttle. Get onto the Folkestone-Birmingham lorry train. At the lorry depot (where those bound for the Midlands would depart) you board another train bound for Newcastle.
Lorries would only need to travel ahort distances.
The result???
Less congestion on Motorways
Less pollution
Better use of the railways (the Government call it Integrated transport)
The Haulage companies save fuel prices and wear-and-tear on their fleet
The downsides???
Hmmm... The lorries have to do the last bit of the journey anyway, so they last part is not affected
The Governemnt will loose money because of lost fuel revenue. Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Of course. THERES THE REASON
Well, I think its a good idea.
I do like the no overtaking for HGV's I saw on some German autobhans. Applied I think to 2.8 tonnes and over. Annoying for me at the time as I was in a 7.5 tonne. Could be applied to the long drags that they have to chug up. Prime example the M4 east bound after jcn 32.
Also shoot the bugger who designed that section as a 2 lane.
Also shoot the bugger who designed that section as a 2 lane.
quote:
quote:
56mph, who are you trying to kid. Most HGV traffic seems to be able to keep up a steady 70mph (indicated by GPS not tacho) when i have been following them.
If they can find the limiter i doesnt take much to whip the fuse out as demonstrated by a recovery lorry i once had a lift in
quote:
quote:
Most modern vehicles can call upon around 300-500 horsepower
I agree with everything you've said apart from this - exactly which vehicles are you referring to?!?!? I've owned two rally cars, two race cars, two TVR's and whole host of other 'sports' cars - and never owned one anywhere near 300BHP - never mind 500.....
Ah! you seem to have miss understood me, I was talking about most modern HGV's.
quote:
quote:
quote:
56mph, who are you trying to kid. Most HGV traffic seems to be able to keep up a steady 70mph (indicated by GPS not tacho) when i have been following them.
If they can find the limiter i doesnt take much to whip the fuse out as demonstrated by a recovery lorry i once had a lift in
Legally, every vehicle over 7.5 ton GVW registered after 1978 (this may be a little out, its a long time since I sat my CPC) has to be fitted with an approved speed limiter. These limiters are to be set to 85KPH, which in reality means that most trucks are limited to around 56mph. There are execptions to this rule, one being recovery vehicles, who are also exempt from tachograph regulations, so long as they are employed soley in the recovery of used vehicles, the ones used for transporting new vehicles fall in the scope of the EU driving regs. Other exemptions are emergency services, and funnily enough milk tankers?! You can indeed "pull the fuse" on some older lorries, this will cause the limiter to be completely inaffective, but the resulting excess speed is very noticable on the tachograph trace, hence very costly if caught. So this means that although the majority of drivers brag about doing it, very few really do. I would personaly fire and driver of mine who pulled the fuse, as its my neck on the line too, should he get caught, and he would! New vehicles tend to have the limiter on the same curcuit as the ignition, so if the fuse is tampered with the motor won't start.
As for Motorail services, I have used them from France to Italy and they are great! Unfortunately, the British railway infrastuture is far to feeble to cope with any amount of traffic. You mention the Shuttle, this is a useful tool but it can still take you 5-6 hours to board a train, and personally I prefer the boat. If you look at the size of the Channel Tunnel sites they are massive! Where in every town in the country, would you be able to build a site like that? In my opinion, its a non starter. Keep on Trucking! Simon.
quote:
Most regular motorway hold-ups that are cited to "sheer weight of traffic" are caused by people driving too close to the car in front.
Yep. I am convinced that this is THE major cause of congestion shock-wave type jams and a huge contributor to actual road traffic accidents. Wish I could find the statistics to prove it...whatever that would be worth...speed kills dunnit.
If people would only keep their distance motoring life would be smoother, faster, safer and less stressful.
It is so unbelievably frustrating to be sat in the outside lane, leaving a decent gap, only to find that gap gets filled by some twonk who thinks the two-second ruls is for other people. Add to that an "undertake" and you can guess the results.
I loathe the idiot who sits in the outside lane with two completely clear lanes to his left BUT if you come up behind someone who is leaving a proper safety gap and (albeit slowly) is passing traffic to his left DO NOT F*****G UNDERTAKE and fill the blasted gap.
Oh...and I mean YOU BMW drivers....
I thought just have minimum speeds in each lane.
50 in the inside, 70 in the middle, 80 in the outside.
Then also allow/ensure Plod pull over people who are not following these speeds in their lanes.
Might make traffic flow a little smoother, though I know there would need to be exceptions.
50 in the inside, 70 in the middle, 80 in the outside.
Then also allow/ensure Plod pull over people who are not following these speeds in their lanes.
Might make traffic flow a little smoother, though I know there would need to be exceptions.
quote:HEAR HEAR!!
I do like the no overtaking for HGV's I saw on some German autobhans. Applied I think to 2.8 tonnes and over. Annoying for me at the time as I was in a 7.5 tonne. Could be applied to the long drags that they have to chug up. Prime example the M4 east bound after jcn 32.
Also shoot the bugger who designed that section as a 2 lane.
The 2-lane lorry overtaking ban is just a greenslime way of introducing a speed limit because numpty number 1 will pull out in front of you (arriving at 250+kph) and will stay in the outside lane until the next century because "perhaps theres another truck near Hamburg that I want to overtake" and you're 700 km away from Hamburg! 'kin green slime and socialist nazis!
Reset HGV restrictors to a more sensible 70mph to reduce the closing speed of traffic other traffic. Maybe even introduce an 80mph limit.
Variable speed limits should be introduced to make more effecient use of the roads that we have - assuming of course that people STICK TO THEIR LANES and TO THE SET LIMIT. The principle of raod-trains DOES work and trials have proved this... trouble is, there's always ONE person that has to go that little bit faster...
Variable speed limits should be introduced to make more effecient use of the roads that we have - assuming of course that people STICK TO THEIR LANES and TO THE SET LIMIT. The principle of raod-trains DOES work and trials have proved this... trouble is, there's always ONE person that has to go that little bit faster...
PUT FREIGHT ON THE CANALS! quote:
Reset HGV restrictors to a more sensible 70mph to reduce the closing speed of traffic other traffic.
There seems to be an overturned lorry closing the M4 every week nowadays. The thought of a 44 tonne load plus the weight of the truck travelling at 70mph on recut tyres does not sound like something that I want behind me when approaching denser traffic.
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