Discussion
In the distant past, I organised a couple of runs for the Sporting Bears. At the time if there were more than 6 cars in a convoy then technically you should inform the Chief Constable for each county that you intend to cross, a brief letter inviting objections with the route should suffice.
I actually spoke with one of the Chief Constables and his advice was as follows, there should be no problem if:-
1) Your route is to be undertaken in social hours
2) Your route has no dangerous/difficult junctions (ie an awkward righthand turn out of a T-junction with little visibility) - this increases the chance of an accident if tens of cars are trying to do the same thing one after another.
3) No-one else has a convoy run on the same day, or school fete/carnival, big car boot sale, etc which uses part of your route which is likely to cause significant congestion on the day.
I also understand that if your are doing this on the part of an MSA club, then you are obliged to do this properly in order to comply with the MSA regulations.
It is also polite to ensure that the owners of your start and end points area aware of your convoy and are happy with it taking place, ie you are not going to end at a pub which may object (some of them do, surprisingly, even though there may be a significant increase in business), equally though I got a cafe to open early one Sunday, becuase they we guaranteed to sell xx Bacon Butties and Coffies at 8am!!!
Technically this permission should also be applied to treasure hunts/scatter navigation rallies etc.
Its not onerous and I believe polite to just to ask.
I also used to give out a briefing note reminding people that the event was being run on public roads, the police had been advised of our route and that the highway code and any other traffic regulations (especially speeding) should be adhered to.
A few years ago there were some incidents on public roads involving at least one fatality because of excessive driving on a club organised event, you don't want it to be your event!!!
Hope that helps
davidy
PS Pie on the Beach would only have infringed if you all started in one place and finished in one place. If you are just driving to a meeting point then I don't believe any extra rules apply.
>> Edited by davidy on Monday 30th September 16:57
I actually spoke with one of the Chief Constables and his advice was as follows, there should be no problem if:-
1) Your route is to be undertaken in social hours
2) Your route has no dangerous/difficult junctions (ie an awkward righthand turn out of a T-junction with little visibility) - this increases the chance of an accident if tens of cars are trying to do the same thing one after another.
3) No-one else has a convoy run on the same day, or school fete/carnival, big car boot sale, etc which uses part of your route which is likely to cause significant congestion on the day.
I also understand that if your are doing this on the part of an MSA club, then you are obliged to do this properly in order to comply with the MSA regulations.
It is also polite to ensure that the owners of your start and end points area aware of your convoy and are happy with it taking place, ie you are not going to end at a pub which may object (some of them do, surprisingly, even though there may be a significant increase in business), equally though I got a cafe to open early one Sunday, becuase they we guaranteed to sell xx Bacon Butties and Coffies at 8am!!!
Technically this permission should also be applied to treasure hunts/scatter navigation rallies etc.
Its not onerous and I believe polite to just to ask.
I also used to give out a briefing note reminding people that the event was being run on public roads, the police had been advised of our route and that the highway code and any other traffic regulations (especially speeding) should be adhered to.
A few years ago there were some incidents on public roads involving at least one fatality because of excessive driving on a club organised event, you don't want it to be your event!!!
Hope that helps
davidy
PS Pie on the Beach would only have infringed if you all started in one place and finished in one place. If you are just driving to a meeting point then I don't believe any extra rules apply.
>> Edited by davidy on Monday 30th September 16:57
Oooo... Davidy
Are the Bears still running. My Mum used to be involved with them years ago. Seem to remeber rallies to raise money the Milton childrens hopice(?).
Tried in vane recently to get reaquainted, any details would be happily recieved. In Sawston weren't they?
Do they do any sporting stuff anymore or is it all good works. Plenty of room for both in my book.
Thanks....Mouse.
Are the Bears still running. My Mum used to be involved with them years ago. Seem to remeber rallies to raise money the Milton childrens hopice(?).
Tried in vane recently to get reaquainted, any details would be happily recieved. In Sawston weren't they?
Do they do any sporting stuff anymore or is it all good works. Plenty of room for both in my book.
Thanks....Mouse.
Thanks Davidy
Does the organiser of a covoy (just a friendly run out type, not an official one organised by a cub or club rep) have any liability for incidents that happen on his convoy?
for example, could a participant sue me (or another driver) for the bad behaviour of another convoy driver causing an accident?
I've organised a couple recently and just wondered if I'd opened up a can of worms...
Does the organiser of a covoy (just a friendly run out type, not an official one organised by a cub or club rep) have any liability for incidents that happen on his convoy?
for example, could a participant sue me (or another driver) for the bad behaviour of another convoy driver causing an accident?
I've organised a couple recently and just wondered if I'd opened up a can of worms...
Strangely enough, I've recently been talking this very subject over with a few other TivHeads.
A related issue we were discussing was coverage of the event. When Sprint published the Gorge Rumble feature showing 30+ TVRs in a convoy.
Could the feature be taken to imply that the car club condones illegal behaviour ? Also, does publishing this feature this make the car club liable to prosecution should any wish to proceed with an action.
Word has it that the Porsche Owners Club magazine was used to help prosecute a Porsche driver.
Finally - I'd hate to see PH used against PHers. I know PH ain't the printed word, but it gives the rightous a leg to stand on along with their crutch to lean on.
A related issue we were discussing was coverage of the event. When Sprint published the Gorge Rumble feature showing 30+ TVRs in a convoy.
Could the feature be taken to imply that the car club condones illegal behaviour ? Also, does publishing this feature this make the car club liable to prosecution should any wish to proceed with an action.
Word has it that the Porsche Owners Club magazine was used to help prosecute a Porsche driver.
Finally - I'd hate to see PH used against PHers. I know PH ain't the printed word, but it gives the rightous a leg to stand on along with their crutch to lean on.
What about Funerals ??? are you meant to notify plod if there are going to be more than 6 cars following the big black one at the front ????
Another irrelevant fact it's actually illegal to get between i.e break up a military convoy of vehicles travelling with their lights on, most now days set off in little groups to avoid this.
Another irrelevant fact it's actually illegal to get between i.e break up a military convoy of vehicles travelling with their lights on, most now days set off in little groups to avoid this.
'When Sprint published the Gorge Rumble feature showing 30+ TVRs in a convoy... Could the feature be taken to imply that the car club condones illegal behaviour ?'
No, it was a collection of 12-car convoys travelling in line astern. I would hope that the law has better things to do than count the number of cars of the same make going past. Does Madcop have a view on this?
No, it was a collection of 12-car convoys travelling in line astern. I would hope that the law has better things to do than count the number of cars of the same make going past. Does Madcop have a view on this?
Simpo
The discussion I listened to implied that the Sprint coverage of Rumble was indeed of concern to the club. and yes, I'm really after some BiB comment here as regardless of the irrationality of the law, or the police's intention (or lack of it) to enforce such law, I don't want to get on the wrong side of it.
Much as I love driving in a convoy I certainly don't want some do-gooder lentil-eating anti-petrolhead making my life difficult.
MADCOP
WHERAREYOU!
The discussion I listened to implied that the Sprint coverage of Rumble was indeed of concern to the club. and yes, I'm really after some BiB comment here as regardless of the irrationality of the law, or the police's intention (or lack of it) to enforce such law, I don't want to get on the wrong side of it.
Much as I love driving in a convoy I certainly don't want some do-gooder lentil-eating anti-petrolhead making my life difficult.
MADCOP
WHERAREYOU! On liability:-
I understand that if you are an MSA registered club and have organised the evnt in accordance with MSA guidelines then any liability will be picked up by the club/MSA insurance.
On Sporting Bears:-
Yes they are still active, see DReamrides at Classic Car Shows, don't have any contact details for them now.
On Porsche Incident:-
There was an accident involving a fatality with a vehicle that was hit by a Porsche which allegdely was racing with another Porsche to a Club Event. This was some years ago on the Berks/Oxen Border between Hermatige and Streatley. I don't believe this was a convoy event but it certainly spooked quite a few car clubs.
davidy
I understand that if you are an MSA registered club and have organised the evnt in accordance with MSA guidelines then any liability will be picked up by the club/MSA insurance.
On Sporting Bears:-
Yes they are still active, see DReamrides at Classic Car Shows, don't have any contact details for them now.
On Porsche Incident:-
There was an accident involving a fatality with a vehicle that was hit by a Porsche which allegdely was racing with another Porsche to a Club Event. This was some years ago on the Berks/Oxen Border between Hermatige and Streatley. I don't believe this was a convoy event but it certainly spooked quite a few car clubs.
davidy
The best place to find out this information will be the MSA Blue Book, rather than asking the police. I believe the 12 car limit is in there, rather than the Road Traffic act.
I havn't got a copy to hand but it says something to the effect that if an 'event' is attended by 12 cars or less, there is no need for the preparation that is otherwise required. This includes canvassing all the residents on the route, informing the police, arranging adequate insurance etc.
This is why many local rally clubs arrange night navigational events actually called '12 car Rallies' - because of the rules they are arranged under.
If no-one else has a blue book to hand I can find out the exact procedures to follow tonight.
As an aside the City region of the TVRCC sometimes arranged 'convoys' or days out which exceeded 12 cars. My view was always that these were non-competitive (a 12 car rally IS) and the chances of being pulled up on this rule were virtually non-existant, even though I assume the TVRCC is a recognised Motor Club running under MSA guidelines. How do you stop other TVR's tagging on at the end of a convoy and just following for fun?
As another aside, I've always thought that these convoys are inherantly dangerous. Everyone wants to be at the front or in the middle - and the further back people get, the more desperate they become to keep up so they take more risks. The convoy also drives at the speed of the most competent driver rather than the least competent, and peer pressure makes everyone want to drive faster anyway.
I've seen more dangerous incidents driving down to Le Mans especially than in three years of saloon car racing.
>> Edited by spnracing on Tuesday 1st October 11:25
I havn't got a copy to hand but it says something to the effect that if an 'event' is attended by 12 cars or less, there is no need for the preparation that is otherwise required. This includes canvassing all the residents on the route, informing the police, arranging adequate insurance etc.
This is why many local rally clubs arrange night navigational events actually called '12 car Rallies' - because of the rules they are arranged under.
If no-one else has a blue book to hand I can find out the exact procedures to follow tonight.
As an aside the City region of the TVRCC sometimes arranged 'convoys' or days out which exceeded 12 cars. My view was always that these were non-competitive (a 12 car rally IS) and the chances of being pulled up on this rule were virtually non-existant, even though I assume the TVRCC is a recognised Motor Club running under MSA guidelines. How do you stop other TVR's tagging on at the end of a convoy and just following for fun?
As another aside, I've always thought that these convoys are inherantly dangerous. Everyone wants to be at the front or in the middle - and the further back people get, the more desperate they become to keep up so they take more risks. The convoy also drives at the speed of the most competent driver rather than the least competent, and peer pressure makes everyone want to drive faster anyway.
I've seen more dangerous incidents driving down to Le Mans especially than in three years of saloon car racing.
>> Edited by spnracing on Tuesday 1st October 11:25
Angus,
The MX5 Owners Club has it's own rules for convoys:
http://mx-5.org/oxford/driveguide.htm
They keep to a sensible speed to avoid messing up their hairdos.
IMHO convoys should be kept as short as possible and mainly be used to help the cartographically(!) challenged or Billy-no-mates at the back.
The MX5 Owners Club has it's own rules for convoys:
http://mx-5.org/oxford/driveguide.htm
They keep to a sensible speed to avoid messing up their hairdos.
IMHO convoys should be kept as short as possible and mainly be used to help the cartographically(!) challenged or Billy-no-mates at the back.
I have the blue book to hand but cannot see any relevant sections other than the mentioning of 12 car rallies and in that section I cannot see mention of previously notifying the authorities.
It does say that judges may be appointed to monitor speed and adherence to road signs.
If timed then it may not pass through certain areas without various permissions but not if it is just a convoy drive.
It does say that judges may be appointed to monitor speed and adherence to road signs.
If timed then it may not pass through certain areas without various permissions but not if it is just a convoy drive.
After last weekends reaction and opinions - I'd just like to quickly point out a few things about the Gorge Rumble. It wasn't a blat, it was a cruise. We all had our Captain Sensible hats both for the planning and the execution.
Convoy leaders kept the speed down to a sedate pace Cars at the back inevitably had to drive harder, but nothing loony-tunes.
Everyone had a map and written instructions of the route so that splitting up wasn't supposed to be a problem.
We had several meeting places large enough to hold all the TVRs. So being left behind wouldn't be for too long.
The route avoided roads where a convoy could quickly bring other traffic to a standstill. Weston-super-Mare
The pub and final destination were all aware. The pub laid on extra staff to cope and were only too pleased to see us.
About the only people we didn't inform were the police ! Why not ? Well, the first question would probably have been "How many cars ?". Errrm, we didn't know in advance. Once the convoy set off I phoned ahead to the Pub and Caves to confirm the numbers!
Convoy leaders kept the speed down to a sedate pace Cars at the back inevitably had to drive harder, but nothing loony-tunes.
Everyone had a map and written instructions of the route so that splitting up wasn't supposed to be a problem.
We had several meeting places large enough to hold all the TVRs. So being left behind wouldn't be for too long.
The route avoided roads where a convoy could quickly bring other traffic to a standstill. Weston-super-Mare
The pub and final destination were all aware. The pub laid on extra staff to cope and were only too pleased to see us.
About the only people we didn't inform were the police ! Why not ? Well, the first question would probably have been "How many cars ?". Errrm, we didn't know in advance. Once the convoy set off I phoned ahead to the Pub and Caves to confirm the numbers!
quote:
Another irrelevant fact it's actually illegal to get between i.e break up a military convoy of vehicles travelling with their lights on, most now days set off in little groups to avoid this.
Are you sure? Whenever we drove in convoy the Transport Officer always reminded us to leave the regulation 80m between vehicles when on single carriageway roads to ensure other road users could overtake safely and use the gap in between if necessary.
Just had a scan of the MX5 guidelines and they all look completely sensible.
I especially appreciate the one about brightly coloured or highly visible cars at the front and back of the convoy. Last Sunday we had a 10 car convoy with several dark Griffs at the back.
It was darned near impossible to tell if the convoy had got split up unless we could count all the Griffs at the same time (not very often) ! Lights on the trailing Griff would have been a darned good idea - DOH !
I especially appreciate the one about brightly coloured or highly visible cars at the front and back of the convoy. Last Sunday we had a 10 car convoy with several dark Griffs at the back.
It was darned near impossible to tell if the convoy had got split up unless we could count all the Griffs at the same time (not very often) ! Lights on the trailing Griff would have been a darned good idea - DOH !
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