BLUETHUNDERS CONGESTION RANT
Discussion
The motorist in this country are some of the most heavely taxed in the world,but wait for it ,when the congestion charges come in febuary any driver who has to go into london every day will be out of pocket by £25 a week.And when gordon (prudance)brown brings in his national insurance increase in april that will be a minimum of £5.Plus if you do not pay your charge after 3 days commie ken will hit you with a £40 fine and if this accumalates you will have your car confiscated. And before any one says move out of london, well ive got news for you, london is just a blue print for it to be put in to use in every major town and city in the u.k. I dont know about you but i think we are being taken for a bunch of lemmings. Iknow its a bit early but happy new year
of course you *could* argue that several thousand unecessary trips into london occur everyday when perhaps those people *could* use public transport.
However Personally I think this is unlikely - nobody takes to the mean streets of london unless they have to.
I wait to see what will happen, I reckon there will be evaders, schemes tricks and cons all over the place - some vandalism - hopeless bureaucracy and finally it will settle down and we will have to wear it !
But I hope a few transit drivers accidentally crash into the gantries a few times ...
However Personally I think this is unlikely - nobody takes to the mean streets of london unless they have to.
I wait to see what will happen, I reckon there will be evaders, schemes tricks and cons all over the place - some vandalism - hopeless bureaucracy and finally it will settle down and we will have to wear it !
But I hope a few transit drivers accidentally crash into the gantries a few times ...
quote:getting into London on public transport is a joke... train operators putting up prices to ease over-crowding?? hmmmm
of course you *could* argue that several thousand unecessary trips into london occur everyday when perhaps those people *could* use public transport.
Agree though, avoiding going into London at all is by far & away the most attractive option.
quote:
of course you *could* argue that several thousand unecessary trips into london occur everyday when perhaps those people *could* use public transport.
Public transport! - gimme a break. The situation on transport into, and within, London is an over-priced, badly managed, under-staffed, farce. It's unreliable, the quality of the service is frankly appalling, the general state of the trains is disgusting, there's no staff presence most of the time and during parts of the day it's an unsafe environment. I certainly would not like my teenage children to travel unnaccompanied.
Other cities I travel to around the world understand that you get the public transport infrastructure right first then people use it. There's no way to force people to use a crappy, expensive, inconvenient, unreliable, uncoordinated service that's badly managed through an unbelievably inefficient process.
Bluethunder's right: folks need to wake up and realize the extent of disposable income that's insidiously being stripped away by this devious Government that is proceeding unchecked through the continued absence of any viable opposition.
What's more, the media is now rampantly involved in national dumming-down programming. There's no focus on accountability of Government or national interest. It's all froth - Big Brother, Pop Idol, Major getting his leg over Curry....wall to wall, low brow TV and newspapers...continual dumming down is everywhere...apathy...lack of respect...reconciling to the lowest common denominator....what the hell has gone wrong with this country? how do we change it?
Hutch
(thanks for lighting the fire Bluethunder!)
quote:
Plus if you do not pay your charge after 3 days commie ken will hit you with a £40 fine
Correction - if you haven't registered in advance for the charge, and don't pay up by midnight on the day you incur it, he'll hit you with an £80 fine. The cameras won't flash, so it'll be perfectly possible for a motorist to wander into the zone without realising it and find a demand for 80 quid on their doormat a few days later. I predict short, violent lives for Livingstone's tax cameras
Public transport -
well I catch a train and a tube everyday - both ways and commute an average of two and a half hours a day.
Train is very reliable, clean, serves coffee - I always get a seat - its on time (never more than a couple of minutes late so far) and I can't complain
However £251 a month for train and tube - is close to extortion in my view.
The tubes are a different story - the northern line is mostly ok - but when it goes wrong its awful - plus it is very crowded - close to capacity - so I don't think congestion charging will encourag other to pack in on the tube - there simply isn't the capacity.
I agree - cut public transport prices - increase the volume of services - put rubbish bins on stations again - increase transport police presence at night.
Might help
well I catch a train and a tube everyday - both ways and commute an average of two and a half hours a day.
Train is very reliable, clean, serves coffee - I always get a seat - its on time (never more than a couple of minutes late so far) and I can't complain
However £251 a month for train and tube - is close to extortion in my view.
The tubes are a different story - the northern line is mostly ok - but when it goes wrong its awful - plus it is very crowded - close to capacity - so I don't think congestion charging will encourag other to pack in on the tube - there simply isn't the capacity.
I agree - cut public transport prices - increase the volume of services - put rubbish bins on stations again - increase transport police presence at night.
Might help
I drive 38 miles each way to work, between Basingstoke and Staines on the M25.
Both ways it's a 45 minute journey. I put £40 quid of petrol in the car each week. I get 45p a mile from my company (25p after first 10k miles). This pays for my car in its entirity.
Were I to switch to the train, my daily journey time would be 2 hours each way, my costs would be over £17 a day (when I last checked last November). My company would pay that but there'd be nothing to subsidise the private running of my car.
Why the fcuk would I ever want to use an overcrowded smelly train?
Even if there was no cost penalty - even if it was free - it'd still cost me 12 hours a week in extra commuting time. Life's too short.
Both ways it's a 45 minute journey. I put £40 quid of petrol in the car each week. I get 45p a mile from my company (25p after first 10k miles). This pays for my car in its entirity.
Were I to switch to the train, my daily journey time would be 2 hours each way, my costs would be over £17 a day (when I last checked last November). My company would pay that but there'd be nothing to subsidise the private running of my car.
Why the fcuk would I ever want to use an overcrowded smelly train?
Even if there was no cost penalty - even if it was free - it'd still cost me 12 hours a week in extra commuting time. Life's too short.
YOu'd think old IDS would have a field day with this lot wouldn't you? Instead we get more PC bullshit about the Cs being the "Nasty Party"! What! Talk about aiming for your shoe and pulling the trigger!
The opposition don't need new policies - they need to dust off a few old ones. What about increased efficiency, cutting taxes, encouraging wealth creators to stay in the country? etc etc
Whilst they're at it they could freeze tax on fuel and scrap tolls no one wants...
The opposition don't need new policies - they need to dust off a few old ones. What about increased efficiency, cutting taxes, encouraging wealth creators to stay in the country? etc etc
Whilst they're at it they could freeze tax on fuel and scrap tolls no one wants...
Below is a copy of the letter I sent to dearest c*** Ken last week, no reply as yet...
*****************************************************
Dear Mr Livingstone,
As a person who drives in and out of London every day I have some queries regarding your congestion charging.
I live in Wandsworth and would much prefer to use public transport to undertake my daily commute to Mayfair where I work. However, having tried this on several occasions, each of which have resulted in my getting severe warnings for being late I am not convinced.
If I drive from my house, leaving at approximately 8am, I arrive at my office at between 8.30 and 8.40 every day. Having used varieties of public transport, buses, buses then tubes and also mainline stations the journey never fails to take less than an hour and is frequently significantly longer. I know of many other people who are in the same position.
I would have no objections to using public transport if it didn't take me more than double the amount of time (equating to an extra hour if I include my journey home also).
I am therefore left with no alternative than using my car and I would have no problem with paying the congestion charge if it really would reduce congestion, I put it to you that the reality will be that there will be no change (other than that brought about by resetting the traffic light sequencing, which I have heard it alleged is your intention).
Most people who drive into London do this because it is a function of their business or a time neccessity as in my case.
I would welcome your thoughts as I find it hard to believe that having spent the funds installing the monitoring cameras that you will simply cease to use them if congestion is not reduced.
Yours faithfully,
Craig Williams.
*****************************************************
Dear Mr Livingstone,
As a person who drives in and out of London every day I have some queries regarding your congestion charging.
I live in Wandsworth and would much prefer to use public transport to undertake my daily commute to Mayfair where I work. However, having tried this on several occasions, each of which have resulted in my getting severe warnings for being late I am not convinced.
If I drive from my house, leaving at approximately 8am, I arrive at my office at between 8.30 and 8.40 every day. Having used varieties of public transport, buses, buses then tubes and also mainline stations the journey never fails to take less than an hour and is frequently significantly longer. I know of many other people who are in the same position.
I would have no objections to using public transport if it didn't take me more than double the amount of time (equating to an extra hour if I include my journey home also).
I am therefore left with no alternative than using my car and I would have no problem with paying the congestion charge if it really would reduce congestion, I put it to you that the reality will be that there will be no change (other than that brought about by resetting the traffic light sequencing, which I have heard it alleged is your intention).
Most people who drive into London do this because it is a function of their business or a time neccessity as in my case.
I would welcome your thoughts as I find it hard to believe that having spent the funds installing the monitoring cameras that you will simply cease to use them if congestion is not reduced.
Yours faithfully,
Craig Williams.
quote:
YOu'd think old IDS would have a field day with this lot wouldn't you? Instead we get more PC bullshit about the Cs being the "Nasty Party"! What! Talk about aiming for your shoe and pulling the trigger!
The opposition don't need new policies - they need to dust off a few old ones. What about increased efficiency, cutting taxes, encouraging wealth creators to stay in the country? etc etc
Whilst they're at it they could freeze tax on fuel and scrap tolls no one wants...
Hear, Hear! I'd support that Party
Hutch
edited to add audience applause
>> Edited by Hut49 on Tuesday 8th October 12:16
quote:
folks need to wake up and realize the extent of disposable income that's insidiously being stripped away by this devious Government that is proceeding unchecked through the continued absence of any viable opposition.
Ah, more dodgy PH politics.
The tax burden on the UK has been generally lower under the current Labour administration than under the Conservatives previously.
Congestion charging is being introduced by an independent mayor who has nothing to do with the government.
In a press conference last week he said words to the effect of 'I know transport is a problem, if anyone has any better ideas about what to do I'm listening'.
I don't see any better idea's here - complaints about higher taxes than more complaints about not enough money spent on public transport. Its the same old stuff over and over again.
quote:You know, Don, I really do not know what the FCUK the are thinking..
YOu'd think old IDS would have a field day with this lot wouldn't you? Instead we get more PC bullshit about the Cs being the "Nasty Party"! What! Talk about aiming for your shoe and pulling the trigger!
The opposition don't need new policies - they need to dust off a few old ones. What about increased efficiency, cutting taxes, encouraging wealth creators to stay in the country? etc etc
Whilst they're at it they could freeze tax on fuel and scrap tolls no one wants...
Duncan Smith is an utter spanner of the Billy Vague mould.
All this bullshit about Compassionate Conservatives and Caring this and Public Services that..
I couldn't even disagree with RedTop Kennedy the other week at the DibLems' conference when he said they were destined to be the main opposition party.
Makes me sick.. I think we should infiltrate the Tory Party en masse and basically take the bugger over for our ends.. we'd be political hermit crabs, but needs must & all that..
spn
You are incorrect - the tax burden has gone up under labour - quite significantly - also - many people on lower incomes have had the burden of taxation shifted on to them.
eg - NI has risen - by 1% but on higher incomes - NI is capped - so over about £40,000 you pay no more NI
therefore lower incomes hit harder by this raise.
Also - attacked the pension funds tax credits which is indirect but again still hits the lowest secor harder
plus increase in fuel tax, and charging for government services - like driving licence renewals, prescrptions and so on has INCREASED across the board.
If you don't think that tax has risen yet under labour - give it another year
Gordon brown predicted the UK economy to grow at 2.5% this year and 3.2 next - in reality we will be lucky of we hit 1% - this will trigger either borrowing or tax increases... even the IMF have slated the high tax in the uk.
Oh wait - how about stamp duty threshholds - were 1% now up to 3.5% on some properties.
2.5% over 250,000 - which are most family houses in the south east ...
check your facts - tax has risen
You are incorrect - the tax burden has gone up under labour - quite significantly - also - many people on lower incomes have had the burden of taxation shifted on to them.
eg - NI has risen - by 1% but on higher incomes - NI is capped - so over about £40,000 you pay no more NI
therefore lower incomes hit harder by this raise.
Also - attacked the pension funds tax credits which is indirect but again still hits the lowest secor harder
plus increase in fuel tax, and charging for government services - like driving licence renewals, prescrptions and so on has INCREASED across the board.
If you don't think that tax has risen yet under labour - give it another year
Gordon brown predicted the UK economy to grow at 2.5% this year and 3.2 next - in reality we will be lucky of we hit 1% - this will trigger either borrowing or tax increases... even the IMF have slated the high tax in the uk.
Oh wait - how about stamp duty threshholds - were 1% now up to 3.5% on some properties.
2.5% over 250,000 - which are most family houses in the south east ...
check your facts - tax has risen
Ah politics - glad to see that I am not the only person that thinks that the only political party that has policies that transparent is the Monster Raving Looney party....
All of the others are a bunch of moronic, self-opinionated, coasters who have a liking for self-publicity and sleeping with each other... Actually saying that, just like any large company then..??!?!
Were all doooooommmed, dooommmeed I say - dont cross that moor at night....
I'll get me coat.
All of the others are a bunch of moronic, self-opinionated, coasters who have a liking for self-publicity and sleeping with each other... Actually saying that, just like any large company then..??!?!
Were all doooooommmed, dooommmeed I say - dont cross that moor at night....
I'll get me coat.
"I don't see any better idea's here - complaints about higher taxes than more complaints about not enough money spent on public transport. Its the same old stuff over and over again."
Well here's some better ideas for you then. These are obvious ideas that the government mayor hasn't even suggested - why would they - they wont make money out of it.
1) Encourage companies to have staff that can working from home. A large proportion of people could work from home these days.
2) Encourage companies to stagger working hours. 1/3 of your staff come in a t 8, 3rd at 9 and so on. On a rotational basis. That would be a third of the traffic commuters using the roads public transport at anyone time.
3) School busses. When the schools are on holiday my journey to work takes 15 minutes. When they are not it takes 45 mins.
We don't have to put up with this. We could march on London like the countryside people. Most drivers moan about aspects of the way the motorist is treated. We should stand up and show our displeasure.
Well here's some better ideas for you then. These are obvious ideas that the government mayor hasn't even suggested - why would they - they wont make money out of it.
1) Encourage companies to have staff that can working from home. A large proportion of people could work from home these days.
2) Encourage companies to stagger working hours. 1/3 of your staff come in a t 8, 3rd at 9 and so on. On a rotational basis. That would be a third of the traffic commuters using the roads public transport at anyone time.
3) School busses. When the schools are on holiday my journey to work takes 15 minutes. When they are not it takes 45 mins.
We don't have to put up with this. We could march on London like the countryside people. Most drivers moan about aspects of the way the motorist is treated. We should stand up and show our displeasure.
quote:
You are incorrect - the tax burden has gone up under labour
check your facts - tax has risen
I didn't mean specific taxes - I meant the overall tax burden. I've been struggling to find the figures on the web so can't quote anything - and the burden may rise next year as investment is made in health, education etc. But I stand by what I said - unless someone can show me otherwise....
Agree with most of your points, Gargamel, but not his one:
quote:Existing levels of contribution are capped at about £29k, but the new 1% employees NIC is not capped at any level.
eg - NI has risen - by 1% but on higher incomes - NI is capped - so over about £40,000 you pay no more NI therefore lower incomes hit harder by this raise.
quote:
1) Encourage companies to have staff that can working from home. A large proportion of people could work from home these days.
I do sometimes. But how do the GOVERNMENT do this? Why SHOULD the government interfere with this?
quote:
2) Encourage companies to stagger working hours. 1/3 of your staff come in a t 8, 3rd at 9 and so on. On a rotational basis.
HOW? Most companies work/sell with other companies. Working hours are driven by the economy, not the government.
quote:
3) School busses. When the schools are on holiday my journey to work takes 15 minutes. When they are not it takes 45 mins.
HOW? All the children don't live in the same place? How many buses would you need?
quote:
We don't have to put up with this. We could march on London like the countryside people. Most drivers moan about aspects of the way the motorist is treated. We should stand up and show our displeasure.
Put up with what? Other motorists using the roads (to get their children to school)? Why is their use of the road less legitimate than yours?
>> Edited by spnracing on Tuesday 8th October 13:10
I reckon the solution is to make the congestion charge £30 a day. 
incidentally, how does the congestion charge reconcile with the Labia strategy of redistribution.. do you get a discount if you're on Tax Credits or do you pay the same £5 as a bloke in a big Merc?
here's another.. as proof that this government if slippy, aren't daft. You probably geard the other day that a couple of 'experts' have come along to declare their 10 year transport plan dead in the water and its targets completely unachievable. This is because the government have left it the responsibility of local councils to implement congestion charging and thwey won't because it'll cost them dearly in votes come the next local elections..
If the government want congestion charging in place they'll have to find a way to incentivise the councils or they'll have to do it themselves.. either way they'll risk losing the next election if they are seen to be involved in the scheme.
It's funny really, they must be chuffed to bits with the way things have turned out with Red Ken.. they'l have a New Labia Mayor in London come the next mayoral elections, the congestion charging will all be in place and they'll be able to blame it all on ole Ken who wasn't acting under the direction of Labia when he did it. Of course it would be ridiculous to uninstall and scrap the scheme now - "we couldn't justify the cost to taxpayers of dismantling this scheme" they'll holler.
I reckon now that Ken being kicked out and standing as an independent against the most hopeless bloke Billy Liar could muster was one massive set-up, and they're all pissing themselves laughing as us. (well, anyone who voted for him or didn't leave london when he won.. )
incidentally, how does the congestion charge reconcile with the Labia strategy of redistribution.. do you get a discount if you're on Tax Credits or do you pay the same £5 as a bloke in a big Merc?
here's another.. as proof that this government if slippy, aren't daft. You probably geard the other day that a couple of 'experts' have come along to declare their 10 year transport plan dead in the water and its targets completely unachievable. This is because the government have left it the responsibility of local councils to implement congestion charging and thwey won't because it'll cost them dearly in votes come the next local elections..
If the government want congestion charging in place they'll have to find a way to incentivise the councils or they'll have to do it themselves.. either way they'll risk losing the next election if they are seen to be involved in the scheme.
It's funny really, they must be chuffed to bits with the way things have turned out with Red Ken.. they'l have a New Labia Mayor in London come the next mayoral elections, the congestion charging will all be in place and they'll be able to blame it all on ole Ken who wasn't acting under the direction of Labia when he did it. Of course it would be ridiculous to uninstall and scrap the scheme now - "we couldn't justify the cost to taxpayers of dismantling this scheme" they'll holler.
I reckon now that Ken being kicked out and standing as an independent against the most hopeless bloke Billy Liar could muster was one massive set-up, and they're all pissing themselves laughing as us. (well, anyone who voted for him or didn't leave london when he won.. )
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