26 miles of SPECS A77
Discussion
“BRITAIN’S longest continuous speed trap will monitor motorists along a 26-mile stretch of road in an attempt to reduce deaths at one of Scotland’s worst accident blackspots.”
I've written to object to the SPECS speed Camera scheme on the A77 in Scotland. This type of thing could well be coming to an area near you as well, best to nip it in the bud.
Link to newspaper article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,172-1691763,00.html
This is a road I have regularly used and I believe this scheme is a bad idea.
The traffic on this road is quite heavy but does move quite well, the amount of injuries and deaths whilst tragic do not seem excessive when taking into account how busy this road is and it’s economic importance. Also given the type of road this is, the type of road users (very low pedestrian, high motor vehicle) and taking into account the figures from the Department of Transport Road Accident reports which show that the huge majority of accidents are not speed related , the impact of a scheme such as this on road safety is likely to be limited if beneficial at all.
When considering safety directly, the accidents I have seen on that road have been through a combination of bad judgment and poor road design, speed not appearing to be a direct or even a contributing factor . An additional hazard this scheme may introduce for driver is during overtaking, safe overtaking is possible on this road at many points and is beneficial as it can vastly reduce journey times, but if the unexpected were to happen during an overtake the danger of being caught by SPECs may prevent people from taking the appropriate action to get themselves out of danger, potentially increasing accidents rather than reducing them.
The route carries a lot of HGVs supplying the coast and going to and from Stranraer for the ferry to Ireland, with SPECs these would be reduced to doing 40mph (single carriageway limit for HGVs), which would really slow things down, at the moment they potter along at 50-60mph safely, keeping traffic flowing well and as said above when they do slow on hills etc they can be overtaken safely. The economic consequences of slowing down the traffic on such a busy route as this is bound to be fairly drastic.
I already have experience of the effects of a permanent SPECS on the A616 Manchester to Sheffield road, this has forced HGVs down to 40 mph for most of the route and made overtaking more dangerous, which has resulted in a rough 10 mph reduction in my journey across this route and a 11.2 mph on average reduction for a haulage client, this is a very busy route and given this speed reduction is likely to be true for almost all the traffic using this route the economic consequences must be quite severe, this must cost society millions, millions which could be spent on essential services like the NHS, Police, etc, this is money and resource wasted which could be used to save lives/prevent hardship elsewhere.
I reckon the economic effects on the A77 are likely to be as bad if not worse due to the increased length of road covered and this for very little if any improvement in road safety. Not to mention all the folk who will lose their licenses , jobs etc and they and their families will just end up being a burden as well.
Another point bet there are more road deaths in and around the Ayrshire towns, than on the rural stetches of this road.
Rant over :rage:
Contactsfor emails faxes etc
Email Dr Stephen Ladyman MP, Minister of State for Transport
E-mail: Stephen.Ladyman@dft.gsi.gov.uk
Strathclyde Safety Camera Partnership
Road Policing Complex, 433 Helen Street, Glasgow G51 3HH
Fax your MP
http://www.writetothem.com/index?pc=&fyr_extref=
I've written to object to the SPECS speed Camera scheme on the A77 in Scotland. This type of thing could well be coming to an area near you as well, best to nip it in the bud.
Link to newspaper article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,172-1691763,00.html
This is a road I have regularly used and I believe this scheme is a bad idea.
The traffic on this road is quite heavy but does move quite well, the amount of injuries and deaths whilst tragic do not seem excessive when taking into account how busy this road is and it’s economic importance. Also given the type of road this is, the type of road users (very low pedestrian, high motor vehicle) and taking into account the figures from the Department of Transport Road Accident reports which show that the huge majority of accidents are not speed related , the impact of a scheme such as this on road safety is likely to be limited if beneficial at all.
When considering safety directly, the accidents I have seen on that road have been through a combination of bad judgment and poor road design, speed not appearing to be a direct or even a contributing factor . An additional hazard this scheme may introduce for driver is during overtaking, safe overtaking is possible on this road at many points and is beneficial as it can vastly reduce journey times, but if the unexpected were to happen during an overtake the danger of being caught by SPECs may prevent people from taking the appropriate action to get themselves out of danger, potentially increasing accidents rather than reducing them.
The route carries a lot of HGVs supplying the coast and going to and from Stranraer for the ferry to Ireland, with SPECs these would be reduced to doing 40mph (single carriageway limit for HGVs), which would really slow things down, at the moment they potter along at 50-60mph safely, keeping traffic flowing well and as said above when they do slow on hills etc they can be overtaken safely. The economic consequences of slowing down the traffic on such a busy route as this is bound to be fairly drastic.
I already have experience of the effects of a permanent SPECS on the A616 Manchester to Sheffield road, this has forced HGVs down to 40 mph for most of the route and made overtaking more dangerous, which has resulted in a rough 10 mph reduction in my journey across this route and a 11.2 mph on average reduction for a haulage client, this is a very busy route and given this speed reduction is likely to be true for almost all the traffic using this route the economic consequences must be quite severe, this must cost society millions, millions which could be spent on essential services like the NHS, Police, etc, this is money and resource wasted which could be used to save lives/prevent hardship elsewhere.
I reckon the economic effects on the A77 are likely to be as bad if not worse due to the increased length of road covered and this for very little if any improvement in road safety. Not to mention all the folk who will lose their licenses , jobs etc and they and their families will just end up being a burden as well.
Another point bet there are more road deaths in and around the Ayrshire towns, than on the rural stetches of this road.
Rant over :rage:
Contactsfor emails faxes etc
Email Dr Stephen Ladyman MP, Minister of State for Transport
E-mail: Stephen.Ladyman@dft.gsi.gov.uk
Strathclyde Safety Camera Partnership
Road Policing Complex, 433 Helen Street, Glasgow G51 3HH
Fax your MP
http://www.writetothem.com/index?pc=&fyr_extref=
all untill you get your bill 2 weeks later IF this really is 26 miles of SPECS coverage the effect on the HGV traffic would be greater than cars most of the time since the cars would be constrained by the HGV's I would imagine.
So only the bikes will be able to make sensible progress. Amazing. One could, I suppose, belt up and down the road and then park up for a while before passing the second camera measurement point.
But if the trucks are the primary controlling factor I can't see the system generating much revenue and I can envisage the road becoming more dangerous.
Oh well, never mind, if it happens just file under 'Examples of the Law of Unintended Consequences'.
So only the bikes will be able to make sensible progress. Amazing. One could, I suppose, belt up and down the road and then park up for a while before passing the second camera measurement point.
But if the trucks are the primary controlling factor I can't see the system generating much revenue and I can envisage the road becoming more dangerous.
Oh well, never mind, if it happens just file under 'Examples of the Law of Unintended Consequences'.
I brought this up in the scotland forum when I first learned of it from someone involved in the whole project, he has since left 
As i argued with someone at the time:
the figures of KSI were for the very dodgy and now defunct(replaced) four lane undivided carriageway.
The rader survey discovered that the section of road prone to accidents did NOT have a significant rate of speeding.
the safer section of this road, on route to the airport which was always dual carriageway did have a high rate of speeding.
Guess where they put the SPECS up !!
This has nothing to do with safety, it is a disgrace and I am very glad that no longer have to drive this road every day.
As i argued with someone at the time:
the figures of KSI were for the very dodgy and now defunct(replaced) four lane undivided carriageway.
The rader survey discovered that the section of road prone to accidents did NOT have a significant rate of speeding.
the safer section of this road, on route to the airport which was always dual carriageway did have a high rate of speeding.
Guess where they put the SPECS up !!
This has nothing to do with safety, it is a disgrace and I am very glad that no longer have to drive this road every day.
its more than a bit shit. And i'll soon be moving to Kilmarnock while still working in Prestwick meaning about half of my commute will soon be under the glare of SPECS.
Most of the problems with the A77 are down to road designm and condition, as proven by the good safety record of the section at Ayr. The section by symington and hansel village needs more than cameras to be made safe.
Most of the problems with the A77 are down to road designm and condition, as proven by the good safety record of the section at Ayr. The section by symington and hansel village needs more than cameras to be made safe.
parrot of doom said:
If I find myself travelling this section of road, I may well find to my surprise that my front number plate has fallen off.
Funnily enough a couple of years ago, just after the end of the newly SCAMMED section someone driving a works (v.large mobile phone operator with interest in F1) 4x4 decided his phone call was more important than the stationary traffic ahead.
Result: I lost my rear number plate, and half the boot, exhaust, rear lights and a wheel!
If only there had been a scamera to step out, catch him in a net and stop him driving into me at the speed limit
I was born in Girvan and know this road like the back of my hand. I moved to Glasgow 58 miles away and the best time I ever managed the trip in daylight was 48 minutes (I think I managed 38 minutes very early one morning). That was 15 years ago - I would be lucky to manage it in that time these days given the 50-60mph limit coming out of Glasgow on the M77 and the numerous villages you have to go through to get to Girvan (Maybole, Minishant and Kirkoswald). I would be surprised if I averaged >60 over that 26 miles given how busy the road is now.
The section of road between Ayr and Girvan is no more dangerous than any other 2 lane 'A' road, however when you add lots of trucks on their way to Stranraer, lots of tourist traffic and the massive increase in commuter traffic to Glasgow, then this road is past its sell by date - there are few overtaking opportunities and the locals always want to get to and from Ayr in the shortest time possible.
The section of road between Ayr and Girvan is no more dangerous than any other 2 lane 'A' road, however when you add lots of trucks on their way to Stranraer, lots of tourist traffic and the massive increase in commuter traffic to Glasgow, then this road is past its sell by date - there are few overtaking opportunities and the locals always want to get to and from Ayr in the shortest time possible.
FunkyNige said:ANPR cameras can work from behind. SPECS is based on the same technology, so don't assume bikes are immune
So only the bikes will be able to make sensible progress. Amazing. One could, I suppose, belt up and down the road and then park up for a while before passing the second camera measurement point
Bikes are immune to Specs anyway.
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