The correct driving position
Discussion
I drove 3 cars yesterday- my 944, then I went to the elders and drove my mum's Ka and my Dad's Zafira.
It got me thinking: three different driving positions, but all felt comfortable.
I have also noticed that if I pull my seat on the Porsche (my regular drive) closer, or change the back slightly I can still drive.
So, the question I want to ask is this:
Is there a correct driving position? One that is anatomiclaly correct, will still enable me full control and still remain comfortable after 2 hours of sitting??
Any ideas??
It got me thinking: three different driving positions, but all felt comfortable.
I have also noticed that if I pull my seat on the Porsche (my regular drive) closer, or change the back slightly I can still drive.
So, the question I want to ask is this:
Is there a correct driving position? One that is anatomiclaly correct, will still enable me full control and still remain comfortable after 2 hours of sitting??
Any ideas??
I always adjust the seat so that with my back comfortably against the back of the seat and in a natural position, I can rest my wrist on the top of the steering wheel without leaning forward.
That's the way I was taught.
My seat only adjusts fore and aft so it's easy to set up. None of this height adjustable, headrest moving heated massaging nonsense for me.
That's the way I was taught.
My seat only adjusts fore and aft so it's easy to set up. None of this height adjustable, headrest moving heated massaging nonsense for me.
Is there a correct driving position? One that is anatomiclaly correct... ?
In a word, yes... I'll see if I can dig it out of my final year notes - would take WAY too long to write.
...will still enable me full control and still remain comfortable after 2 hours of sitting??
Doubtful. Bear in mind that man was never supposed to sit for that length of time, indeed he was never meant to be bipedal either.
Ever wondered why bars in pubs often have a metal rail running around them on the floor? It's so that you can rest one foot on it, to change your posture and adjust the angle that your spine sits at... staying in the same position for too long just becomes uncomfortable...
Things to consider;
1) Your knees should be at the same level or higher than your hips.
2) Move the seat close to the steering wheel to support the curvature of your back... the seat should ideally be close enough to allow your knees to bend and your feet to reach the pedals.
3) Use a back support (lumbar roll) at the curve of your back, if your seat does not offer enough support.
4) Generally people sit too far back from the wheel...
5) I'll try and add some more later when I can be bothered... got reams of info on it...
>> Edited by Podie on Wednesday 6th November 13:35
But seriously......
If you look at www.chiropractic-uk.co.uk/ and click on the "Everyone" button then "A helping hand for drivers" there's a nice concise document produced in conjunction with Saab which gives some guidelines and diagrams.
>> Edited by alfa dave on Wednesday 6th November 13:43
If you look at www.chiropractic-uk.co.uk/ and click on the "Everyone" button then "A helping hand for drivers" there's a nice concise document produced in conjunction with Saab which gives some guidelines and diagrams.
>> Edited by alfa dave on Wednesday 6th November 13:43
Personally I like to sit as further back than most people. I agree with the comment about putting your hands at the 12:00 position and being able to rest your back against the seat upright.
Basically I like to be just short of an arm's length to my normal 10-to-2 driving position... I also like to have a reasonable rake on the seatback as well as I find this makes it more comfortable to keep my knees higher than my hips (as also said) I find I can drive 5-6 hours straight and still be comfortable (in that respect) but 5-6 hours of bugs-in-the-teeth, sunburn and excessive vibration and hard-as-nails ride takes its toll in other ways.... keeps me from falling asleep at the wheels tho innit
Basically I like to be just short of an arm's length to my normal 10-to-2 driving position... I also like to have a reasonable rake on the seatback as well as I find this makes it more comfortable to keep my knees higher than my hips (as also said) I find I can drive 5-6 hours straight and still be comfortable (in that respect) but 5-6 hours of bugs-in-the-teeth, sunburn and excessive vibration and hard-as-nails ride takes its toll in other ways.... keeps me from falling asleep at the wheels tho innit
Oh yeah and remember to achieve the TRUE sporting driving position you must place your baseball cap on back-to-front.... I'm tod that the weight of the peak of the cap overhanging your neck gives your head better balance and I'm also told that you will look "fully sick" which I'm yet to determine if this is a good or bad thing 
Big_M said:
Podie said:
4) Generally people sit too far back from the wheel...
Not my bloody Mum - he nose is usually 6 inches from the steering wheel of her Passat - just hope she doesn't hit anything. I have tried to tell her to sit further back but she knows best.
Let me guess... "I'm your mother, I know best"
...will still enable me full control and still remain comfortable after 2 hours of sitting??
Dead easy M100 Elan, I found the limit of my driving was down to a) my bladder, b) the range of the tank, I was never uncomfortable. One journey I drove from full tank to empty, got out filled up, and carried on. My father who was the passenger didn't bother to get out whilst I filled up so he sat there for even longer.
Saying you can't sit for more than 2 hours in one position is rubbish, look at films such as the Lord of the Rings. Equally how long do some people sit in front of the TV at night.
The most uncomfortable cars are the boring ones.
smeagol said:
Saying you can't sit for more than 2 hours in one position is rubbish...
If you read my post correctly, I didn't say that you cannot, I merely said it was doubtful. There are many factors that can determine comfort, and since we are all very different in our make up there is no difinitive answer.
You should also consider that people put up with things, becuase they don't want to moan etc etc. As people we abuse our bodies in many ways, and although you may be used to sitting in a car for a long period of time, does not mean it is comfortable. Comfort is a subjective, hence difficult to measure.
...look at films such as the Lord of the Rings. Equally how long do some people sit in front of the TV at night.
OK, look at the people themselves. Do they sit still? No, they move about, they fidgid (sp?)... they curl up, they move around, hence they do not sit still or maintain exactly the same posture for a long period of time.
Quite interesting thread, this and it highlights the difference between the classical Italian style, i.e. knees bent, legs akimbo and arms thrust forth in a grasping fashion and the intense rally school form of up close and personal with the steering wheel parallel with and only inches from the chest.
I must say, when God smiled on me recently and granted me an hour with Enzo's loveliest creation (IMHO), the 355 ragtop, although the event was memorable for reasons of pure tactility, the far reach for the wheel felt alien.
The brutal mania of EVO-dom saw a reversion to type which somehow felt more effective; not 'flashy' if that's the right word but workmanlike, purposeful.
I'm sure it's a case of horses for courses though; too many experts chipping in and all...
I must say, when God smiled on me recently and granted me an hour with Enzo's loveliest creation (IMHO), the 355 ragtop, although the event was memorable for reasons of pure tactility, the far reach for the wheel felt alien.
The brutal mania of EVO-dom saw a reversion to type which somehow felt more effective; not 'flashy' if that's the right word but workmanlike, purposeful.
I'm sure it's a case of horses for courses though; too many experts chipping in and all...
Esprit said: Oh yeah and remember to achieve the TRUE sporting driving position you must place your baseball cap on back-to-front.... I'm tod that the weight of the peak of the cap overhanging your neck gives your head better balance and I'm also told that you will look "fully sick" which I'm yet to determine if this is a good or bad thing
you forgot to add that by wearing a baseball cap backwards you will gain an additional 475bhp, and have the handling of an F1 car. To further increase the power by 200% find a selection of stickers with various brands of car accessories eg HKS, Kenwood, Michelen, Blitz, TRD and stick them down the side of the car.
shadowninja said:
Esprit said: Oh yeah and remember to achieve the TRUE sporting driving position you must place your baseball cap on back-to-front.... I'm tod that the weight of the peak of the cap overhanging your neck gives your head better balance and I'm also told that you will look "fully sick" which I'm yet to determine if this is a good or bad thing
you forgot to add that by wearing a baseball cap backwards you will gain an additional 475bhp, and have the handling of an F1 car. To further increase the power by 200% find a selection of stickers with various brands of car accessories eg HKS, Kenwood, Michelen, Blitz, TRD and stick them down the side of the car.
Very good!
If you read my post correctly, I didn't say that you cannot, I merely said it was doubtful. There are many factors that can determine comfort, and since we are all very different in our make up there is no difinitive answer.
You should also consider that people put up with things, becuase they don't want to moan etc etc. As people we abuse our bodies in many ways, and although you may be used to sitting in a car for a long period of time, does not mean it is comfortable. Comfort is a subjective, hence difficult to measure.
Sorry can't agree my father was given the choice to get out of the car and he chose not to he was quite comfortable, not being polite. Indeed there was a cafe at the station so we could have stopped for a break without problems. I used to drive long journies and jump out at the end as fresh as a daisy. Something I can't do in the mini. I would describe the M100 as comfortable, indeed its one of the major things I miss about not having the car anymore.
OK, look at the people themselves. Do they sit still? No, they move about, they fidgid (sp?)... they curl up, they move around, hence they do not sit still or maintain exactly the same posture for a long period of time.
Not much room to fidget in the cinema certainly not to curl up etc. I went to see the LOTR film 4 times and certainly the first time I hardly moved. I would say that the cinema seat wasn't that comfortable BUT the human body will forget it as the mind is involved in other actions. I would say there was more movement possiblilities in the car than the cinema.
The point I'm making Podie, is that although comfort is subjective there are ways of making people comfortable, one is to provide the right support in the right places, another is to occupy the mind (which I believe the M100 did both for driver and passenger hence why it was so comfortable). I have heard the "you cannot make a comfortable car seat" argument before and its rubbish. Its just cheaper to use that excuse and build a unadjustable uncomfortable driving seat. The only exception to this is if the driver is outside the usual parameters eg extraordinary tall or short.
smeagol said:
The point I'm making Podie, is that although comfort is subjective there are ways of making people comfortable, one is to provide the right support in the right places, another is to occupy the mind (which I believe the M100 did both for driver and passenger hence why it was so comfortable). I have heard the "you cannot make a comfortable car seat" argument before and its rubbish. Its just cheaper to use that excuse and build a unadjustable uncomfortable driving seat. The only exception to this is if the driver is outside the usual parameters eg extraordinary tall or short.
As an ergonomist it has been my job to design seats that provide suitable comfort and support to all range of drivers, from 1st to 99th percentile. Even under the guidance of industry experts I have never known a seating trial where 100% of the participants claimed that the seat ws comfortable at all times.
Even when cost was not a mitigating factor, a 100% agreement on a comfortable seat was never achieved - and from the amount of research that has been conducted in this area, that says quite a bit.
Indeed external stimuli (such as driving or watching a movie) can have a significant affect. You may have seen LOTR four times (WTF?!?) but although people believe they are still, when you play back a film that watches their movements, people DO fidgit (sp?). Even when asked to reamin motionless, muscles twitch and givena period of time, they do move. However, external stimuli does NOT mean that you are comfortable - it means that you are more concerned with other factors than your own comfort.
Using the cinema as an example, people plonk themselve sin the chair... they cross their legs, they stretch them out again, they put their feet under the seat in front (mind the person in front doesn't stand up!), cross their legs with their feet outstretched... then the other way round. Believe me, I've been involved in enough (tedious) studies watching human behaviour to have a very good idea.
I know what you mean about companies saying "you cannot make a comfortable car seat", as of course they will try and duck out of further costs. It seems to me that the seats in the M100 just happened to fit you very well and offered enough support... as the phrase goes "you can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time."
Fair enough Podie, it was a bit of a rant from me, you're probably right about the m100 elan being just right for me. (still miss it 
) BTW LOTR stands for Lord of The Rings couldn't be @rsed to type it all.
The manufacturer that told me "you can't make a comfortable seat" was Lotus when I was in the showroom and I sat in the Elise and stated "f*** me the seats are uncomfortable", he babbled on "about can't make etc." til I pointed at the Elan.
) BTW LOTR stands for Lord of The Rings couldn't be @rsed to type it all. The manufacturer that told me "you can't make a comfortable seat" was Lotus when I was in the showroom and I sat in the Elise and stated "f*** me the seats are uncomfortable", he babbled on "about can't make etc." til I pointed at the Elan.
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