My BroadBand Rant!
Discussion
After moving from an area with a Broadband connection to an area where there is no Cable/BT broadband connection I decided to look around to see what I could do to get an always on service.
As BT web site sates that they have no plans to introduce Broadband into my new exchange I went hunting for other technologies.
First I checked out Satellite some of these services require a phone line outbound and the dish to receive the returned data and as these are not ‘always on’ they did not fit my needs. I found the BTinternet offered Satellite both ways but at a cost of just under £1300 to install and £110 per month this is just too expensive. I then found that the ‘Remote Area Broadband Inclusion Trial’ or Rabbit could help with a grant for installation. When I contacted Rabbit I was told that they no longer offer that for the BTinternet service.
The other main problem with Satellite is not that the bandwidth is fast around 512k it’s the general ‘lag’ over the link. The Satellites add around 600ms to the packet time (both ways) and that would result in 800-1000ms packet turn around depending on where you are going. For browsing the web this might not be a problem, but for working on remote servers this would not work.
Satellite falls over are a solution firstly Cost and then Speed.
Wireless solutions these would fix any of the Speed/cost issues (if the cost is right) but unfortunately there are no Wireless ISP in my area.
BT did advise me that I could get a leased line but the cost was too great at around £300pm for a very basic 64k service and for 256k service (still not a good as ADSL) it was a whopping £14000 per year!
So at the moment I have to pay £34pm to BT for a ISDN line, £25 to BT for surftime anytime and £15pm to my ISP which is around £74pm for a 64k dial up connection. This is nearly 3 times as much as the basic ADSL. for 1/8th of the service.
I also here that BT is quote ‘BT will introduce a new broadband hybrid service, dubbed midband, offering speeds of up to 128K and available to 97% of the population. The service will be available on existing telephone lines but it will not offer the always-on advantage of true broadband. It is due to be piloted in March.’
As this is not always on and up to 128k (64-128) we could just call it ISDN as that technology already exists!
If this Government is so determined to push Broadband, BT is spending millions of adverts why is the Government so ‘Town centric’ when the benefits of Broadband would be better felt in the rural areas.
Think of the number of car journeys that would be saved if we could do our shopping online, not have to go into town to look up info at the library, check out bank balance. Most towns folks can just walk to these services we need to drive. Broadband would benefit the towns by having less traffic, less pollution which is a Government goal. Less cars on the road would me less accidents and therefore less stress on the NHS, Fire services, police etc.
Getting broadband into the rural areas would be a vote winner.
As BT has a monopoly in the rural areas (we don’t have cable) the government should use all its powers to make sure that we are able to get Broadband.
>>> Edited by drux on Tuesday 19th November 18:39
As BT web site sates that they have no plans to introduce Broadband into my new exchange I went hunting for other technologies.
First I checked out Satellite some of these services require a phone line outbound and the dish to receive the returned data and as these are not ‘always on’ they did not fit my needs. I found the BTinternet offered Satellite both ways but at a cost of just under £1300 to install and £110 per month this is just too expensive. I then found that the ‘Remote Area Broadband Inclusion Trial’ or Rabbit could help with a grant for installation. When I contacted Rabbit I was told that they no longer offer that for the BTinternet service.
The other main problem with Satellite is not that the bandwidth is fast around 512k it’s the general ‘lag’ over the link. The Satellites add around 600ms to the packet time (both ways) and that would result in 800-1000ms packet turn around depending on where you are going. For browsing the web this might not be a problem, but for working on remote servers this would not work.
Satellite falls over are a solution firstly Cost and then Speed.
Wireless solutions these would fix any of the Speed/cost issues (if the cost is right) but unfortunately there are no Wireless ISP in my area.
BT did advise me that I could get a leased line but the cost was too great at around £300pm for a very basic 64k service and for 256k service (still not a good as ADSL) it was a whopping £14000 per year!
So at the moment I have to pay £34pm to BT for a ISDN line, £25 to BT for surftime anytime and £15pm to my ISP which is around £74pm for a 64k dial up connection. This is nearly 3 times as much as the basic ADSL. for 1/8th of the service.
I also here that BT is quote ‘BT will introduce a new broadband hybrid service, dubbed midband, offering speeds of up to 128K and available to 97% of the population. The service will be available on existing telephone lines but it will not offer the always-on advantage of true broadband. It is due to be piloted in March.’
As this is not always on and up to 128k (64-128) we could just call it ISDN as that technology already exists!
If this Government is so determined to push Broadband, BT is spending millions of adverts why is the Government so ‘Town centric’ when the benefits of Broadband would be better felt in the rural areas.
Think of the number of car journeys that would be saved if we could do our shopping online, not have to go into town to look up info at the library, check out bank balance. Most towns folks can just walk to these services we need to drive. Broadband would benefit the towns by having less traffic, less pollution which is a Government goal. Less cars on the road would me less accidents and therefore less stress on the NHS, Fire services, police etc.
Getting broadband into the rural areas would be a vote winner.
As BT has a monopoly in the rural areas (we don’t have cable) the government should use all its powers to make sure that we are able to get Broadband.
>>> Edited by drux on Tuesday 19th November 18:39
ah! i think i can help u out! i was going to get this service until NTL came to the rescue, but this is better than ntl anyway (accoring to my mate)
it costs about £23 a month, u need to buy an adaptor (from them) for £120 i think, it goes into your computer and phone line, BUT, u can use the phone aswell at the same time as the net. its a 576kbs connection and doesnt have many problems with it.
You have to manually connect it but u can also disconect.
i duno why im telling you this im sure it tels you on the website
it costs about £23 a month, u need to buy an adaptor (from them) for £120 i think, it goes into your computer and phone line, BUT, u can use the phone aswell at the same time as the net. its a 576kbs connection and doesnt have many problems with it.
You have to manually connect it but u can also disconect.
i duno why im telling you this im sure it tels you on the website
The whole thing is typical of BT. Like you I want a decent connection as I use Real Time price information all of every day. In rural Scotland I can either have the Satellite system, but cost and time lag rule that out, or its a 56k modem job. A friend of mine using the same information got onto Broadband, but a lot of the time my modem is faster! I wanted a package that would allow uninterrupted use during the working week, and eventually got some BT package that guaranteed 12 hours per day. For a few months it was great, then they amended some of their terms and started cutting me off every four hours. I wrote to BT asking what was going on and received the extract of the new terms and no real answer. Then they started to cut me off every two hours. I wrote and asked just exactly what were they offering at twice the cost of Freeserve, as it seemed to me to now offer exactly the same. I obviously do not merit a reply this time. They are a bunch of people of doubtful parentage who I am quickly getting sick of. They suggested I phone at one stage, but after 5 minutes of daft questions and button pressing no bugger answered the phone anyway. Does anybody know of a company who can give me at least 8 hours uninterrupted access per day on a 56k modem at a cost per month of under £30.00. I must get shot of BT before I go mad. I also used Force9 as did a friend, but after a couple of months of good service they also started frequent cutoffs and finally became impossible to dial through to. What is it about all these telephone/ISP people - no wonder most of their shares are now worth about 2% more than zero !!
I share your anger at this situation - I too am stuck with ISDN and I'm just 4 miles out of Basingstoke.. which pisses me off utterly - I'm too far from my existing exchange and as I'm on the edge of town it could be some years before another one springs up and that may well not be any closer, so I doubt I'll ever get xDSL where I am.
At least you have the chance, if enough people on the exchange can be sersuaded to petition for the exchange to be enabled - my exchange is feckin enabled, but I'm too far from it.. that isn't going to change no matter who I petition..
Satellite broadband is a complete waste of time and money for the exact reasons you've outlined - have of the functionality of ADSL is lost through the lag and the price, though understandable due to the equipment and technology involved, is totally over the top for a domestic of SOHO customer.
I lived in London until about 18 months ago and I had ADSL for a year. So I know exactly what I'm missing and it makes me quite angry indeed. But then what doesn't, some might say
At least you have the chance, if enough people on the exchange can be sersuaded to petition for the exchange to be enabled - my exchange is feckin enabled, but I'm too far from it.. that isn't going to change no matter who I petition..
Satellite broadband is a complete waste of time and money for the exact reasons you've outlined - have of the functionality of ADSL is lost through the lag and the price, though understandable due to the equipment and technology involved, is totally over the top for a domestic of SOHO customer.
I lived in London until about 18 months ago and I had ADSL for a year. So I know exactly what I'm missing and it makes me quite angry indeed. But then what doesn't, some might say
My mate is on AOL (don't laugh!) apparently it has improved significantly and now offers an always on dial-up service for £15 per month. You still have to dial in with their software, but he seems very pleased with the service and is trying to get me to turn to the dark side 
(trouble is he thought Freeserve was good too 
)
(trouble is he thought Freeserve was good too )Interesting thread this one and close to my heart as like Mr Zee I had Cable for a couple of years till we decided to move out of town. No ADSL or Cable or anything. I've looked at sat and it is ok (I'm not a gamer) but it is expensive and I cannot get planning permission to shove a dish on the side of the house.
We are therefore going via the community route. Basically this involves setting up a not for profit company in the village (or where ever) . Running a leased line to a point in the village then using a wireless netowkr to get round the village. This is not a stupid as it sounds and with 50 people you can do it.
We are in early stages at the moment and I have a meeting with on of the suppliers on Friday, once I have more detail I'll let you know as it is a model which will work anywhere.
D.
We are therefore going via the community route. Basically this involves setting up a not for profit company in the village (or where ever) . Running a leased line to a point in the village then using a wireless netowkr to get round the village. This is not a stupid as it sounds and with 50 people you can do it.
We are in early stages at the moment and I have a meeting with on of the suppliers on Friday, once I have more detail I'll let you know as it is a model which will work anywhere.
D.
alan_driver said: ah! i think i can help u out! i was going to get this service until NTL came to the rescue, but this is better than ntl anyway (accoring to my mate)
it costs about £23 a month, u need to buy an adaptor (from them) for £120 i think, it goes into your computer and phone line, BUT, u can use the phone aswell at the same time as the net. its a 576kbs connection and doesnt have many problems with it.
You have to manually connect it but u can also disconect.
i duno why im telling you this im sure it tels you on the website
Alan
This is ADSL yes? Known as BT broadband and which you'll find most of us cannot get.
D.
Had to go the NTL route, BT no plans to.....etc, found service normally good but customer services non-existant. Best way by far of getting help and advice is www.nthellworld.com with many NTL employees giving help for free.
NTL actually have a link to them from their own site!
NTL actually have a link to them from their own site!
BT are not on my christmas card list at the moment either. Before we moved into the farm we are in now (6Months back) I did all the tests on line to make sure we could move our ADSL line, even phoned to check as well. First day in the house I got onto BT and ordered the line to be installed, all was set in motion. To cut it all short, after four months 35 calls to the helpdesk, an engineer replacing all the overhead cables, 7 hours on hold, I was told without any apology that "Our test was incorrect and you cannot receive broadband at that address", They resolutely refuse to offer any compensation or the alternative of satellite at a reduced cost. My argument is not that I cannot receive the service but that I only went ahead with the move based on the fact that they said I could. Complete B
ds the lot of them.
Nick
ds the lot of them. Nick
drux, I'm in exactly the same situation, have got broadband at home, but moving - tomorrow - to an area without, and no likelihood in any known time frame.
I've checked out various satellite providers, and you can get an installation for about £400 and service at about £15 per month, but this stil uses a phone for outgoing packets, and satellite return. Fine for large defered downloads - video, music, whatever - but not really a big advantage for interactive use.
A former boss of mine lives in the area, and has been trying to get the area set up with a pilot project to offer community wireless broadband at GHz plus! No action yet, but I'll have a share of that...
So its currently back to Claranet and an Anytime package at £15 per month at 56kb. Sigh.
I've checked out various satellite providers, and you can get an installation for about £400 and service at about £15 per month, but this stil uses a phone for outgoing packets, and satellite return. Fine for large defered downloads - video, music, whatever - but not really a big advantage for interactive use.
A former boss of mine lives in the area, and has been trying to get the area set up with a pilot project to offer community wireless broadband at GHz plus! No action yet, but I'll have a share of that...
So its currently back to Claranet and an Anytime package at £15 per month at 56kb. Sigh.
This drives me mental. I live between Sheffield, Rotherham, and Worksop, all of which have Broadband. My exchange is a Worksop code, I'm only a mile form the M1, 7 miles from Sheffield centre, and no effin' broadband. Gaah!!
Thoser bloody BT adverts for broadband make me wabt to kick the telly! - exhorting us to get it, but then not providing the means to do so....
Thoser bloody BT adverts for broadband make me wabt to kick the telly! - exhorting us to get it, but then not providing the means to do so....
It wouldn't be quite so bad, but its not as if they offer an alternative always on dialup system - it still cuts off after 2 hours (or 1.5 hours with BT 
)
I think they do this to encourage town dwellers in a broadband area to say 'Fcuk this, i'm getting broadband!'
I just hope wireless networks become more viable in rural areas
) I think they do this to encourage town dwellers in a broadband area to say 'Fcuk this, i'm getting broadband!'
I just hope wireless networks become more viable in rural areas
It's not just rural areas either.
I live in Liverpool, only 200m from my local exchange. The area I live in is small, but is bordered on three of four sides by, let's say, 'less well off' areas. The fourth area is quite well off and has their own exchange, so no help there.
When ADSL was first announce about 3 years ago, I put my name down for a trial. However the promised trial never starter in Liverpool and I was told it would go live in 2-3 months.
Three years later I am still waiting. Of the 400 pre-registrations needed for this exchange, we have only 150. It is rising, but by only 1 or 2 a day. Could take another year before I get it.
A similar situation exists with Cable . . . not enough profit to justify ripping out old analogue cable and fitting the digital system required for broadband.
I live in Liverpool, only 200m from my local exchange. The area I live in is small, but is bordered on three of four sides by, let's say, 'less well off' areas. The fourth area is quite well off and has their own exchange, so no help there.
When ADSL was first announce about 3 years ago, I put my name down for a trial. However the promised trial never starter in Liverpool and I was told it would go live in 2-3 months.
Three years later I am still waiting. Of the 400 pre-registrations needed for this exchange, we have only 150. It is rising, but by only 1 or 2 a day. Could take another year before I get it.
A similar situation exists with Cable . . . not enough profit to justify ripping out old analogue cable and fitting the digital system required for broadband.
superflid said: Had to go the NTL route, BT no plans to.....etc, found service normally good but customer services non-existant. Best way by far of getting help and advice is www.nthellworld.com with many NTL employees giving help for free.
NTL actually have a link to them from their own site!
NThellworld used to be a protest site, highlighting the incompetence of NTL, until NTL made them an offer they could not refuse.....
see www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24836.html for more details
mervynP, bloody hell, now that will soon be focked up!
Nev, the service itself has been good (mainly) but as I said, customer service consists of finding out for yourself what is going on! There have been a lot of email problems recently, but otherwise things are OK.
Edited to add that after checking the date Nthellworld was bought out, it seems to be still doing the same job as before.......quite well!
>> Edited by superflid on Wednesday 20th November 15:17
Nev, the service itself has been good (mainly) but as I said, customer service consists of finding out for yourself what is going on! There have been a lot of email problems recently, but otherwise things are OK.
Edited to add that after checking the date Nthellworld was bought out, it seems to be still doing the same job as before.......quite well!
>> Edited by superflid on Wednesday 20th November 15:17
Fed up - well, if you want satellite-based broadband, go to www.everywherebroadband.com, and register for their service. £20 a month for broadband through your sky dish, 1Mb/sec max. download speed!! Get there and register now, to trigger it's further development....
nubbin said: Fed up - well, if you want satellite-based broadband, go to www.everywherebroadband.com, and register for their service. £20 a month for broadband through your sky dish, 1Mb/sec max. download speed!! Get there and register now, to trigger it's further development....
Not quite - it's on Eutelsat's hotbird, and hence you will need a dual LNB if you already have Sky analogue - or a new dish if you have Sky digital.
Remember though that satallite transponders are very expensive (around £1m per year for 10Mbps) - hence to get back their £1m they would have to put in about 5000 customers into 10Mbps - gives a 500:1 contention ratio for their 1Mbps (c.f. 50:1 for BT consumer ADSL)........
You get what you pay for with satellite - the less you pay the less you get. Ensure you read the T&C's and are aware of the guarentees (if any) of how much speed you will get.
Also - check out www.rabbit-broadband.org.uk/ - lists all of the "alternative" suppliers and you can apply for a grant if you qualify.
Justin
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