Would you turn down a 16% pay rise..
Discussion
..even if it was over two years with some strings attatched ??
Inflation is currently around 2% so if someone said to me, how about 16% over the next two years I think I'd give it some serious thought..
..simplistic I know, but this is the crux of the argument, no-ones discussing the reform of the service, or changing working conditions, just the Money.
Cheers
Matt.
Inflation is currently around 2% so if someone said to me, how about 16% over the next two years I think I'd give it some serious thought..
..simplistic I know, but this is the crux of the argument, no-ones discussing the reform of the service, or changing working conditions, just the Money.
Cheers
Matt.
Very enterprising! And they could sub-contract arsonists at £8 ph to start fires when they've nothing on!
raceboy said: Or how about having a 2 tier wage structure,
£3.60 an hour when they are on the Playstation/Snooker Table
£36.00 an hour when they are out in their big red engine saving lifes
I tell you what, I've got real mixed feelings on this one now.. Originally I thought yeah, why not let the Firemen get a bit more cash, and as long as they are reasonable about what the economy can withstand (ie, nothing like 40%) then it is managable. Now we're in a destructive circle, where the union types are trying to hold the country for ransom for an unrealistic gain. There is no way that 20% could be dished out, let alone 40%, but striking for 8 days is soon going to wan public support, why don't they take the 16% say thankyou, (as its better than any other public sector worker has seen) and get back to work.?
Matt.
>> Edited by M@H on Friday 22 November 09:56
Matt.
>> Edited by M@H on Friday 22 November 09:56
Podie,
Agree - the "changes to working practice" are not covered as I currently believe that these are the sticking points for the union. The government wants to change the way that they work and move them into line with other shift working systems - as well as reducing the amount of time in which they sit around doing nothing. They also want to change the pay structure and remove some of the unprecidented structure based on the military....
All basically there to move the fire service into the 21st century and move away from the out-dated methods of old. However, the FBU refuses to agree to anything. Therefore they strike for 40% now and with no changes they can strike for another 40% next year etc...
Personally I did get a pay rise this year (though only small). I couldnt complain due to the conditions in the IT sector reflect a tough market. However, if I were to be offered 16% I would snap it up.... its good and I have to say that working 4 days a week and getting paid £25,000 a year is actually quite appealing.
Agree - the "changes to working practice" are not covered as I currently believe that these are the sticking points for the union. The government wants to change the way that they work and move them into line with other shift working systems - as well as reducing the amount of time in which they sit around doing nothing. They also want to change the pay structure and remove some of the unprecidented structure based on the military....
All basically there to move the fire service into the 21st century and move away from the out-dated methods of old. However, the FBU refuses to agree to anything. Therefore they strike for 40% now and with no changes they can strike for another 40% next year etc...
Personally I did get a pay rise this year (though only small). I couldnt complain due to the conditions in the IT sector reflect a tough market. However, if I were to be offered 16% I would snap it up.... its good and I have to say that working 4 days a week and getting paid £25,000 a year is actually quite appealing.
Hmm... kind of agree with that sentiment.
I agree that htey are undervalued in terms of pay, but 40% is never going to happen, and I think they know that (if they don't their union leader really is thick).
I hadn't appreciated until last night that they don't get overtime either (then again, who does these days?).
I think 16% is a fair offer, and coupled with a re-organisation of the shift pattern, it should be do-able.
I agree that htey are undervalued in terms of pay, but 40% is never going to happen, and I think they know that (if they don't their union leader really is thick).
I hadn't appreciated until last night that they don't get overtime either (then again, who does these days?).
I think 16% is a fair offer, and coupled with a re-organisation of the shift pattern, it should be do-able.
pbrettle said: Podie,
Agree - the "changes to working practice" are not covered as I currently believe that these are the sticking points for the union. The government wants to change the way that they work and move them into line with other shift working systems - as well as reducing the amount of time in which they sit around doing nothing. They also want to change the pay structure and remove some of the unprecidented structure based on the military....
All basically there to move the fire service into the 21st century and move away from the out-dated methods of old. However, the FBU refuses to agree to anything. Therefore they strike for 40% now and with no changes they can strike for another 40% next year etc...
Personally I did get a pay rise this year (though only small). I couldnt complain due to the conditions in the IT sector reflect a tough market. However, if I were to be offered 16% I would snap it up.... its good and I have to say that working 4 days a week and getting paid £25,000 a year is actually quite appealing.
Cheers for clarifying that... getting a bit lost with all the bullshit that's flying about.
I think their quest for 40% is unreasonable, but when bliar and cronies get 40%... you can kinda see their point...!
I think 16% and shift pattern re-organisation is FAIR.
I think 16% is more than fair, especially when you consider times as they are!
I am just one of many thousands of people out there who havent seen a payrise in upto 2 years, but right now I count my lucky stars I still have a job to go too, but for how long I really don't know. Something I am sure many of you will appricate.
I am sure nobody will doubt firefighters have there critical role, and the government should not have allowed it to go this far before offering 16%. My feeling is this is all *really* bad timing, the army dont need any extra pressure right now, lets remember they have a job to do also!
I am just one of many thousands of people out there who havent seen a payrise in upto 2 years, but right now I count my lucky stars I still have a job to go too, but for how long I really don't know. Something I am sure many of you will appricate.
I am sure nobody will doubt firefighters have there critical role, and the government should not have allowed it to go this far before offering 16%. My feeling is this is all *really* bad timing, the army dont need any extra pressure right now, lets remember they have a job to do also!
I'll bet if they re-polled the firemen on whether to accept the offer or not they'd get a different answer to the original strike poll... however it seems that a couple of outspoken people are out to make a name for themselves regardless..
..a little power is a dangerous thing.
Matt.
..a little power is a dangerous thing.
Matt.
The woman opposite me at the moment is a firemans wife, so I get to hear the firemans side of things. 16% is more than acceptable but the conditions attached are not. These conditions will mean the reduction of firefighters and equiptment, and therefore the reduction in safety for both firefighters and the public in general. As a society, we get the services we deserve, how many of you have stood for 2 hours, holding a guys head above water whilst the rest of the team cut the bloke out of his car?
The whole 'would you do it for the money' argument is just the media spin tug at heart strings, think of the children, speed kills crap 
What do people who sign up to be firemen expect to be doing all day, (other than getting better on PS2, and bulking up in there 'company' gym)
It's as laughable as soldiers getting compansaion for being distressed because they've had to go to war
What do people who sign up to be firemen expect to be doing all day, (other than getting better on PS2, and bulking up in there 'company' gym)
It's as laughable as soldiers getting compansaion for being distressed because they've had to go to war
M@H said: I tell you what, I've got real mixed feelings on this one now.. Originally I thought yeah, why not let the Firemen get a bit more cash, and as long as they are reasonable about what the economy can withstand (ie, nothing like 40%) then it is managable. Now we're in a destructive circle, where the union types are trying to hold the country for ransom for an unrealistic gain. There is no way that 20% could be dished out, let alone 40%, but striking for 8 days is soon going to wan public support, why don't they take the 16% say thankyou, (as its better than any other public sector worker has seen) and get back to work.?
Matt.
>> Edited by M@H on Friday 22 November 09:56
I totally agree with you their matt Every time I hear items on the news about this, in the background I can hear the oily, grubby government spin doctors doing their best to make the firemen as demonic as possible.
I'm not particularly sympathetic to the firmen, as has been said, they knew the score when they signed up, but there appears to be a hell of a lot of spin and bullsh!t coming from the government too...
I'm not particularly sympathetic to the firmen, as has been said, they knew the score when they signed up, but there appears to be a hell of a lot of spin and bullsh!t coming from the government too...
IN our economy I still don't see how any job can be considered to be so badly underpaid/bad conditions, when their are 40+ applicants queing up for every job.
Supply and demand -
For me, the fact the the FBU is against defibulator training/paramedic training for firefighters give me NO sympathy whatsoever, regardless of all other issues.
B
Supply and demand -
For me, the fact the the FBU is against defibulator training/paramedic training for firefighters give me NO sympathy whatsoever, regardless of all other issues.
B
M@H said: PS and this issue has nothing to do with the actual wage amount, afterall they took on the job at that salary, this is about the economy and expectation of the public sector.. If they all wanted £30k to start with why take on a job that pays £22.5k..?
Is it me?
Matt.
I agree that anyone who joined the service in the last 5 years knew what the salary was going to be, but anyone in longer has a valid argument that they have fallen behind.
Most of the firemen I'm sure would be happy with 16% but I get the feeling that the union are on a bit of a mission against the government. I think the leader has been spending too long dreaming about the halcyon days of the late 70s.
Bringing in the MP's got 40% argument is bogus. Most MP's could demand much higher wages in the private sector. We may as well start going on about how Beckham gets millions and why our brave firemen only get a fraction. This is all spin by the FBU (I know the govt use it as well). The FBU are also the only union that quotes hourly wage figures net (take home) to make it look smaller. Why do they need to do this? Give the public the truth, Gilchrist, and let them decide.
The deal they have been offered from the govt is a good one and they should accept it. They don't want to change working practises because they are on a cushy number. The amount of house fires has actually reduced since the days of old chip pans, poor electrical wiring etc are now long gone. The majority of their calls are burning cars and smaller tasks. And as seen recently up to 90% of their calls are bogus. Why don't the FBU make a bigger noise about clamping down on bogus calls if they are so concerned about public safety? Maybe, because it keeps them all in employment.
The deal they have been offered from the govt is a good one and they should accept it. They don't want to change working practises because they are on a cushy number. The amount of house fires has actually reduced since the days of old chip pans, poor electrical wiring etc are now long gone. The majority of their calls are burning cars and smaller tasks. And as seen recently up to 90% of their calls are bogus. Why don't the FBU make a bigger noise about clamping down on bogus calls if they are so concerned about public safety? Maybe, because it keeps them all in employment.
Podie said:
I hadn't appreciated until last night that they don't get overtime either (then again, who does these days?).
They don't get overtime because there is a Union ban on them doing it! If they were 'allowed' to do some then they could start getting paid for it, thus bumping up the takehome. Mind you if they were on PS2 overtime they would not have a much time to complete the cash in hand wiring or plumbong jobs they have to do.
Poor souls.
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