interesting piece on top gear...
Discussion
there was an interesting piece on top gear just now, no not the fastest religion bit, but the piece on the lotus elise.
i don't own a lotus elise (in fact i own a 1978 beige vauxhall cavalier 2.0) but i was curious to know from the people that do if there is THAT much of a difference between a s1 and a s2??? and which do you prefer if there is?
now i know the s1 had handling "issues" but surely a competent driver should be able to overcome this... in an ideal world they should only be sold to the best wheelmen (or women) but can't lotus offer a driving day when you buy each elise so you don't "end up pointing the way you came in a cloud of smoke" jc
the reason i bring this up is because, i caught up an elise once, and once we had dispatched a slow moving car, i proceded to follow him to about 80-85mph when we got to a downhill left hander with a bump, he backed off to 70, i dropped it to nearer 60 the back stepped out on the elise he hit the brakes and spun off backwards down a ditch...
no one was hurt, and the car was (miraculasly) undamaged but with a little training the guy should of dispatched me easily through the following set of twisty bends, despite (i think) i had the advantage of local knowledge...
in fairness to the elise driver he may have not known the roads, and he admitted immediately that he shouldn't have hit the brakes...
i don't own a lotus elise (in fact i own a 1978 beige vauxhall cavalier 2.0) but i was curious to know from the people that do if there is THAT much of a difference between a s1 and a s2??? and which do you prefer if there is?
now i know the s1 had handling "issues" but surely a competent driver should be able to overcome this... in an ideal world they should only be sold to the best wheelmen (or women) but can't lotus offer a driving day when you buy each elise so you don't "end up pointing the way you came in a cloud of smoke" jc
the reason i bring this up is because, i caught up an elise once, and once we had dispatched a slow moving car, i proceded to follow him to about 80-85mph when we got to a downhill left hander with a bump, he backed off to 70, i dropped it to nearer 60 the back stepped out on the elise he hit the brakes and spun off backwards down a ditch...
no one was hurt, and the car was (miraculasly) undamaged but with a little training the guy should of dispatched me easily through the following set of twisty bends, despite (i think) i had the advantage of local knowledge...
in fairness to the elise driver he may have not known the roads, and he admitted immediately that he shouldn't have hit the brakes...
now i know the s1 had handling "issues" but surely a competent driver should be able to overcome this...
In my experience while it is an enthusiasts car with a lot of knowledgable drivers, there are also quite a few owners who think thier Lotus can ignore the laws of physics, that the simple act of buying one will improve thier driving ability.
The story you describe (Elise driver spins off while performing he-man antics) has happened in front of twice on the road now. I think they forget that the car is mid engined and that hitting either brakes or accelerator hard when it goes a bit sideways is not the way to keep it under control.
I prefer the look of the S1 by the way.
John
hehe i think one problem is that people who buy an elise might come from nice safe handling (for someone without a clue FWD or 4WD is much safer!) front wheel drive hot hatches...
also having high grip doesn't help... it encourages you to drive faster so when you hit a corner that was a bit more tricky than you initially thought, you're going too fast to bail out safely. maybe they should be trained in morris minors on skinny slicks in the rain, just to put the fear of God into them... then they will learn to respect their car.
ah well, they'll learn!
also having high grip doesn't help... it encourages you to drive faster so when you hit a corner that was a bit more tricky than you initially thought, you're going too fast to bail out safely. maybe they should be trained in morris minors on skinny slicks in the rain, just to put the fear of God into them... then they will learn to respect their car.
ah well, they'll learn!
my dad learnt in a moggie with cross ply tyres...
i personally learnt the hard way, in an astra diesel!!! i was too cocky on ice and round i went, fortuantly the car survived with the tracking out a bit...
but have since purchased the aforementioned cavalier which is a good learning experience, its rear wheel drive and has no grip at all, so have had to get it back from crazy angles in the past...
it teaches you alot, better than these fwd hatches with more grip than power...
i personally learnt the hard way, in an astra diesel!!! i was too cocky on ice and round i went, fortuantly the car survived with the tracking out a bit...
but have since purchased the aforementioned cavalier which is a good learning experience, its rear wheel drive and has no grip at all, so have had to get it back from crazy angles in the past...
it teaches you alot, better than these fwd hatches with more grip than power...
Lotus did offer driver training at hethel and heavily promoted the need to spend a day learning about the car - in fact on several occasions they bundled this free in the price of the car.
They also told everyone that the car would suffer from LIFT off oversteer - which is what you are talking about. Many drivers though in an emergency situation forgot this and either lifted causing snap oversteer or tried to brake causing spins.
Nearly every elise driver has a story about this at some point be it on track - where owners have experimented (I did on an airfield day with impressive results) or sadly as noted above on a slippy roundabout or trying to hard in the wrong circumstance.
Doesn't make it a bad car - just different from the normal fwd drive - I am sure you get the same results in a tvr - just the engine at the front helps a little in getting it back.
They also told everyone that the car would suffer from LIFT off oversteer - which is what you are talking about. Many drivers though in an emergency situation forgot this and either lifted causing snap oversteer or tried to brake causing spins.
Nearly every elise driver has a story about this at some point be it on track - where owners have experimented (I did on an airfield day with impressive results) or sadly as noted above on a slippy roundabout or trying to hard in the wrong circumstance.
Doesn't make it a bad car - just different from the normal fwd drive - I am sure you get the same results in a tvr - just the engine at the front helps a little in getting it back.
Gargamel said:I am sure you get the same results in a tvr - just the engine at the front helps a little in getting it back.
Yes and no
. You do get the same BUT although the engine is nominally at the front the weight distribution of most modern TVR's (well Griff and Chimp definately) is nearly 50/50. This means that you need to keep it very balanced and any aggressive mid-corner antics is likely to have it doing the same thing just as quickly. The only answer is lots of driver training in places where you can learn what you can get away with in safety. It needs to be lots so that you automatically do the right thing due to practice. Instead of forgetting what you have been taught and doing completely the opposite.
Gargamel said: They also told everyone that the car would suffer from LIFT off oversteer - which is what you are talking about. Many drivers though in an emergency situation forgot this and either lifted causing snap oversteer or tried to brake causing spins.
Doesn't make it a bad car - just different from the normal fwd drive.
what i was describing wasn't lift off oversteer, there is a bump in this corner, and its downhill, so when the elise hit the bump the back end stepped out which caused the driver to panic and mash the brakes, thus rotating the car backwards into a ditch...
the back end getting "loose" is a common occurance at this bend, but it isn't a problem - i guess the guy just panicked... i also suspect he was trying to show off...
i also do not think the elise is a bad car i just think less of its drivers for not being able to dispatch an 18 year old in a 24 year old beige vauxhall...
i apologise to all those elise drivers that can DRIVE
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