FOUR KILLED - NORTH WALES
Discussion
Tragically this morning in N.Wales, 4 killed in camera fanatic Brunstroms territory. Excessive speed is not suspected.
Four cyclists, including a 14-year-old boy, have been killed after a driver lost control of his car on an icy north Wales road on Sunday morning.
Three men, one 42, another 49, and a third in his 60s, and the teenager died instantly when they were hit head on, on the A547 near Abergele.
The father of the dead boy suffered a broken leg. They were in a group of 12 from Rhyl Cycling Club.
Police said a Toyota Corolla crashed on a bend. The driver had minor injuries.
The cyclists were said to be riding in fine weather, in pairs and wearing helmets, when the accident happened shortly after 1000 GMT on the A547 Ludland Road.
According to the Met Office, conditions were dry and the overnight temperature had been -1.4C.
All the cyclists were from the Rhyl area and, according to the cycling club's website, its Sunday club was on a 60-mile trip between Great Orme and Llanrwst.
Chief Inspector Lynn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a wall and rebounding into the road.
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Four other adult riders and three children in the cycling club group were uninjured but in shock. The car driver was also said to be "clearly traumatised".
It is understood police were called to another accident on the same road an hour previously after a car lost control on the ice.
The fatal accident scene is near the junction with Gors Road and police said both roads were closed while investigations are carried out.
Scott Eccles, secretary of Rhyl Cycling Club, said: "There was a car coming the other way. There was a kink in the road and it was icy.
"Apparently there had been an accident on the same stretch earlier.
"The car lost control, went up the grass verge, and then it came across the road and into them. They were dead straight away."
Mr Eccles said the section of road, which is generally straight but has one area with sharp bends, was known to be "dangerous".
In September last year, the A547 in the Abergele area was named among the 11 most deadly roads in north Wales by police.
Abergele councillor Richard Waters said: "Seeing cyclists on the road is quite a common sight here because it is a lovely area.
"It is a big shock hearing what has happened - it is terrible news, absolutely dreadful."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/4592412.
Four cyclists, including a 14-year-old boy, have been killed after a driver lost control of his car on an icy north Wales road on Sunday morning.
Three men, one 42, another 49, and a third in his 60s, and the teenager died instantly when they were hit head on, on the A547 near Abergele.
The father of the dead boy suffered a broken leg. They were in a group of 12 from Rhyl Cycling Club.
Police said a Toyota Corolla crashed on a bend. The driver had minor injuries.
The cyclists were said to be riding in fine weather, in pairs and wearing helmets, when the accident happened shortly after 1000 GMT on the A547 Ludland Road.
According to the Met Office, conditions were dry and the overnight temperature had been -1.4C.
All the cyclists were from the Rhyl area and, according to the cycling club's website, its Sunday club was on a 60-mile trip between Great Orme and Llanrwst.
Chief Inspector Lynn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a wall and rebounding into the road.
He said: "The driver has lost control because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that this is down to something like excessive speed.
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Four other adult riders and three children in the cycling club group were uninjured but in shock. The car driver was also said to be "clearly traumatised".
It is understood police were called to another accident on the same road an hour previously after a car lost control on the ice.
The fatal accident scene is near the junction with Gors Road and police said both roads were closed while investigations are carried out.
Scott Eccles, secretary of Rhyl Cycling Club, said: "There was a car coming the other way. There was a kink in the road and it was icy.
"Apparently there had been an accident on the same stretch earlier.
"The car lost control, went up the grass verge, and then it came across the road and into them. They were dead straight away."
Mr Eccles said the section of road, which is generally straight but has one area with sharp bends, was known to be "dangerous".
In September last year, the A547 in the Abergele area was named among the 11 most deadly roads in north Wales by police.
Abergele councillor Richard Waters said: "Seeing cyclists on the road is quite a common sight here because it is a lovely area.
"It is a big shock hearing what has happened - it is terrible news, absolutely dreadful."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/4592412.
deeps said:
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Well if that doesn't show a poor understanding of what constitutes excessive speed I don't know what does. If this person was driving at 50 and there was ice on the road whih led to him losong control then he was most certainly driving at excessive speed, irrespective of the level at which the speed limit had been set. Another example of the idiotic attitude that 'providing you are driving below the speed limit you must be driving safely'.
wearypanda said:
"Our best estimate at the moment is that the car is driving at something like 50 miles per hour. And on a road like this, that isn't excessive speed."
Well if that doesn't show a poor understanding of what constitutes excessive speed I don't know what does. If this person was driving at 50 and there was ice on the road whih led to him losong control then he was most certainly driving at excessive speed, irrespective of the level at which the speed limit had been set. Another example of the idiotic attitude that 'providing you are driving below the speed limit you must be driving safely'.
Methinks Chief Inspector Lynn Adams will soon find himself pounding the beat again.
>> Edited by deva link on Sunday 8th January 16:56
Quinny said:
Unusual that the police have made a comment that speed was definitly not excessive. I would have thought that they would want to do a full investigation before making any comments.
I too was surprised to hear that statement too, it seems that this was a very unfortunate accident (although no comfort to the families involved)
andy mac said:
i thought cyclists weren't allowed to ride in pairs? (I take it that means side by side?)
two abreast is allowed unless its a single lane or busy road. A sunday morning to me aint busy..
Agree.. that "excessive speed" comment was a bit out of line. complete misconception of the true meaning but in line with the brainwashing
Fortjefferson said:
It is understood police were called to another accident on the same road an hour previously after a car lost control on the ice.
So why did'nt they get it gritted
Maybe they asked but the nearest gritter was more than an hour away? They can't be everywhere at the same time.
andy mac said:
i thought cyclists weren't allowed to ride in pairs? (I take it that means side by side?)
Highway Code rule 51 - cyclists should not ride more than two abreast. Riding in pairs is OK. And I agree with the comments about the police view that "50 was a perfectly acceptable speed for that road" totally neglects to take account of the conditions, and while I don't normally comment on the speed camera arguments, I do think that comment is extremely misjudged and does the police road safety cause no good whatsoever.
No hill in the TV pictures I've just seen, road damp, cambered correctly, bit of white paint separating the lanes of traffic.
I'd be looking more into why the Council hadn't gritted a main road, and why the Police hadn't put "Police Slow" warning signs out, following the previous crash, if the road hadn't been treated after that incident.
Otherwise, accident, with fatalities.
I'd be looking more into why the Council hadn't gritted a main road, and why the Police hadn't put "Police Slow" warning signs out, following the previous crash, if the road hadn't been treated after that incident.
Otherwise, accident, with fatalities.
The speed of the car was below the limit but it seems it was excessive, it was a well known accident blackspot, wether there was a camera there or not is irrelevant. The boy died because of the obssession with speed and the resultant indifference to real road hazards. I've heard the expression 'blood on their hands' mentioned before
apache said:Exactly! The speed camera evangelists, typified by Brunstrom, focus on absolute speed, as opposed to appropriate speed for the conditions.
The speed of the car was below the limit but it seems it was excessive, it was a well known accident blackspot, wether there was a camera there or not is irrelevant. The boy died because of the obssession with speed and the resultant indifference to real road hazards. I've heard the expression 'blood on their hands' mentioned before
Result: 47 mph approaching a bend in a 40 limit on a bright, warm, sunny day with no traffic and no pedestrians = 3 point and a £60 fine. 39 mph approaching the same bend on a dull, cold, winter's day with ice on the road and a troop of cyclists = 4 people dead, but no fine or point.
Needless to say, kicking off on the cycling forums..
www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=85907
That being said, towards the later pages genuine sorrow
rather foaming-at-the-mouth appears to take over.
www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=85907
That being said, towards the later pages genuine sorrow
rather foaming-at-the-mouth appears to take over.
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