Whats the big fuss?
Discussion
Have been looking around the Jap import market and dug up an old interview with Quentin Wilson. In it he is explaining the wonders of foriegn car imports but stresses you should NEVER buy a Jap grey import.
My questions- Firstly, a 'grey import'..is that just a second hand Japanese car?
Secondly- Why shouldnt you buy them?
Big C
My questions- Firstly, a 'grey import'..is that just a second hand Japanese car?
Secondly- Why shouldnt you buy them?
Big C
Add to that difficulty in getting parts for some models.
IIRC A "grey" import is a model imported privately and not available for sale in the UK. A parallel import is imported privately, however is a model available in the uk.
There are some plus sides though. Grey imports tend to be cheap and can be very unusual.
IIRC Targa Supra Turbos were never sold in the UK, however can be imported. As can new RX-7s (they stopped selling them here a while back) pajero Evolutions, Eunos Automatics etc.
Basically lots of mad bad machinery (or slightly quirky individual motors) for not a lot of cash.
Japanese cars also tend to be (but not always) better looked after than equivalent age UK machinery, and are likely to have covered a lower mileage and have a higher spec.
Some manufacturers saw a loss of business due to Grey and Parallel imports and at the peak of the market made big attempts to discredit the cars, as well as make it harder for owners to obtain parts and support etc.
Manufaturers are still trying this to limit imported vehicles, no matter what the source. Just look at the actions of various european marques over the last few years (and heavy EU fines for doing so!).
You pays your pennies, you takes your chance. If you do your research and find the right car (and importer) you can get a lot of car for the money, and minimise the risks.
>> Edited becos I cant spel rite
>> Edited by TheLemming on Wednesday 4th December 15:37
IIRC A "grey" import is a model imported privately and not available for sale in the UK. A parallel import is imported privately, however is a model available in the uk.
There are some plus sides though. Grey imports tend to be cheap and can be very unusual.
IIRC Targa Supra Turbos were never sold in the UK, however can be imported. As can new RX-7s (they stopped selling them here a while back) pajero Evolutions, Eunos Automatics etc.
Basically lots of mad bad machinery (or slightly quirky individual motors) for not a lot of cash.
Japanese cars also tend to be (but not always) better looked after than equivalent age UK machinery, and are likely to have covered a lower mileage and have a higher spec.
Some manufacturers saw a loss of business due to Grey and Parallel imports and at the peak of the market made big attempts to discredit the cars, as well as make it harder for owners to obtain parts and support etc.
Manufaturers are still trying this to limit imported vehicles, no matter what the source. Just look at the actions of various european marques over the last few years (and heavy EU fines for doing so!).
You pays your pennies, you takes your chance. If you do your research and find the right car (and importer) you can get a lot of car for the money, and minimise the risks.
>> Edited becos I cant spel rite
>> Edited by TheLemming on Wednesday 4th December 15:37
ok more time now .... was rushed before
There are plenty of examples of good grey imports - the motorbike world for example has always done a good trade in them.
The issues have tended to be around the authorities and the history of the car - after all conversion to UK regs is usually limited to a mileometer conversion and suchlike.
Dealers hate them (obviously) but I think are now required to support them (but this may be only eu so worth checking)
But what the cars have done previously - especially in the case of skylines etc may be fairly bad - and clocking or even theft is a problem...
I wouldn't say avoid - I would say be careful and use a importer who has been around a while.
There are plenty of examples of good grey imports - the motorbike world for example has always done a good trade in them.
The issues have tended to be around the authorities and the history of the car - after all conversion to UK regs is usually limited to a mileometer conversion and suchlike.
Dealers hate them (obviously) but I think are now required to support them (but this may be only eu so worth checking)
But what the cars have done previously - especially in the case of skylines etc may be fairly bad - and clocking or even theft is a problem...
I wouldn't say avoid - I would say be careful and use a importer who has been around a while.
Also an issue of stolen cars being shipped to the middle east and then sold in the UK.
In this instance the vehicle remains the property of the japanese insurance company.
DAZ
A program on TV alerted me to this issue about 18 months ago. Apparently it is particularly prevailent with big 4WDs.
In this instance the vehicle remains the property of the japanese insurance company.
DAZ
A program on TV alerted me to this issue about 18 months ago. Apparently it is particularly prevailent with big 4WDs.
So its more a case of shop around very very carefully and go over the car with a fine tooth comb.
Mainly concentrating on Scooby Turbo's....the WRX and STi versions-are these best avoided ensuring you stick with the standard 220bhp version? Plus insurance- Anyone know why it costs more for a import?
Mainly concentrating on Scooby Turbo's....the WRX and STi versions-are these best avoided ensuring you stick with the standard 220bhp version? Plus insurance- Anyone know why it costs more for a import?
Think my boss is about to suffer Jap car difference
A neighbour reversed into his Celica...TWICE???? claimed he thought he had hit a brick!?. Thing is i have never seen his coloured Celica before, its kind of Gun Metal colour- very nice. Passenger door needs replacing but i think matching that colour is going to be impossible which will leave him with a multi-coloured car- Gutted!
A neighbour reversed into his Celica...TWICE???? claimed he thought he had hit a brick!?. Thing is i have never seen his coloured Celica before, its kind of Gun Metal colour- very nice. Passenger door needs replacing but i think matching that colour is going to be impossible which will leave him with a multi-coloured car- Gutted!
I have also been told, that Grey Imorts, can look like the UK/Euo version, but can be spec'ed differently, sometimes with components that do not match UK Regs, or if they do, they may be so different to the UK parts, that if that part fails, you could have a long wait for a replacment.
I have only heard this and know of no examples, but it does have a ring of possible truth to it.
David
I have only heard this and know of no examples, but it does have a ring of possible truth to it.
David
My girlfriend owns an Eunos Roadster (imported MX-5). None of the dealers will touch it with a barge pole meaning we have to take it to specialists, no real problem though. It was cheaper than an MX-5 but with a higher spec, leather interior, speakers in the headrest (!!) air con, nardi wheel and gear nob, etc.
I heard somewhere that the eu dealers go as far as changing product codes for exactly the same parts. EG the headlights are the same, but have different part numbers making it harder to get.
All you have to do is change the speedo to mph and fit fog lights IIRC.
I heard somewhere that the eu dealers go as far as changing product codes for exactly the same parts. EG the headlights are the same, but have different part numbers making it harder to get.
All you have to do is change the speedo to mph and fit fog lights IIRC.
A lot of the grey imports bad overpriced main dealer cars good is crap.
i remember all the stuff about the bikes, the dealers saying they may not be safe...
oh yeah so mr Yamaha is doing to sell a dangerous bike in his home market but will make it safe in the uk i dont think so....
and the bit about resale being lowers is rubbish as well cos you pay less for the car in the first place so of course it will be worth less ??
if you stick to the main stream stuff, check the specs and the usual 2nd hand car vin plate checks you should be ok.
if its somthing never sold in the uk you may get a bit of a problem, but there are quite a few parts specialists around so talk to them about any purchase
i know midland classic and sports cars import things like eunos(mx5) and mr2 ( a mate has an import mr2 t-top turbo with about 250bhp FFS) so maybe talk to them about pitfalls and where to buy...
there are a few gotchas like putting different plugs on the ecu readers so you carnt plug them into fault code readers and things like that on some cars but resaerch before hand should find those.
as for WRX STI there are so many about it shouldnt be much of a problem
IMHO
G
i remember all the stuff about the bikes, the dealers saying they may not be safe...
oh yeah so mr Yamaha is doing to sell a dangerous bike in his home market but will make it safe in the uk i dont think so....
and the bit about resale being lowers is rubbish as well cos you pay less for the car in the first place so of course it will be worth less ??
if you stick to the main stream stuff, check the specs and the usual 2nd hand car vin plate checks you should be ok.
if its somthing never sold in the uk you may get a bit of a problem, but there are quite a few parts specialists around so talk to them about any purchase
i know midland classic and sports cars import things like eunos(mx5) and mr2 ( a mate has an import mr2 t-top turbo with about 250bhp FFS) so maybe talk to them about pitfalls and where to buy...
there are a few gotchas like putting different plugs on the ecu readers so you carnt plug them into fault code readers and things like that on some cars but resaerch before hand should find those.
as for WRX STI there are so many about it shouldnt be much of a problem
IMHO
G
Well i can speak from experience on this score.
I have the Jap spec GT4.
My bro has the UK spec.
All the dealers said that "yeah mate, totally different".
Bollocks!
Jap spec is virtually identical, true it has some differences, such as fold back mirrors, squeezy seats etc.
Uk spec is much the same.
I was told that the rear suspension was totally different too.
More bollocks.
Both cars have the same number of parts fitted, and the same part numbers.
Pads and calipers differ slightly, Uk ones have same pads as Carina i beleive.
Dealer said that front brakes wernt as powerful on the Jap car, "coz theyre limited to 112 mph mate".
Oh really?
Despite the fact that the jap cars got 20bhp more than the uk cars!!!
So,dont beleive everything they tell you.
Jap car has in standard form got mostly the same spec as Uk cars, it all depends on what you want.
As for me, ill stick with the import model,its cheaper and has more grunt, sure this probably applies to others too.
Happy hunting!!!
I have the Jap spec GT4.
My bro has the UK spec.
All the dealers said that "yeah mate, totally different".
Bollocks!
Jap spec is virtually identical, true it has some differences, such as fold back mirrors, squeezy seats etc.
Uk spec is much the same.
I was told that the rear suspension was totally different too.
More bollocks.
Both cars have the same number of parts fitted, and the same part numbers.
Pads and calipers differ slightly, Uk ones have same pads as Carina i beleive.
Dealer said that front brakes wernt as powerful on the Jap car, "coz theyre limited to 112 mph mate".
Oh really?
Despite the fact that the jap cars got 20bhp more than the uk cars!!!
So,dont beleive everything they tell you.
Jap car has in standard form got mostly the same spec as Uk cars, it all depends on what you want.
As for me, ill stick with the import model,its cheaper and has more grunt, sure this probably applies to others too.
Happy hunting!!!
after all conversion to UK regs is usually limited to a mileometer conversion and suchlike.
Not true. All cars have to pass a UK spec SVA test now a days, which if any of you have ever built a kit car will know, is VERY rigorous. Checks are done by goverment officials (so no fiddling) on anything and everything you can think of, and many parts are added or changed to meet the SVA. However, it's only the last few years that this was really tightened up, older imports had much fewer checks and conversions (a few years back personal imports didn't have to go through SVA at all)
Also an issue of stolen cars being shipped to the middle east and then sold in the UK
After all the bad press, all the reputable dealers are quite keen on stopping this. Insist on an Interpol check, and a translation of the original Japanese documents for peace of mind.
window glass is often different
Absolute rubbish, another popular myth. Window glass is the same thickness as UK spec cars, and MUST carry the European 'E' mark to pass the SVA. Same with tyres, a lot of bunkum has been spouted about tyres.
difficulty in getting parts for some models.
My wife works for one of the bigger importers in the UK. She can get parts for any Japanese car within 2 weeks. Mechanically the cars are usually virtually, if not totally, identical. The only things that tend to differ a bit is trim bits, but as I say, 2 weeks to wait for a bit of trim isn't too bad.
Be careful who you listen to about grey imports, as a lot of rubbish has been spouted over the years, which repeated often enough turns into popular myth.
Go to a large, long standing importer, insist on certain assurances and checks. Accept that it's not a perfect win / win situation .... you'll usually win on price, specification and performance, but lose on insurance and dealer snobbery (though that is gradually going .... everyone's feeling the pinch now a days, so dealers will often work on anything)
MikeGF said: My girlfriend owns an Eunos Roadster (imported MX-5). None of the dealers will touch it with a barge pole meaning we have to take it to specialists, no real problem though. It was cheaper than an MX-5 but with a higher spec, leather interior, speakers in the headrest (!!) air con, nardi wheel and gear nob, etc.
Mike, it sounds like your girlfriend has a V-Spec – and so does mine. The best bit about it over a UK car is it has an LSD.
Which Mazda dealers have you been trying?
I've dealt with four or five main dealers (for ordering parts), and they've all been helpful – some of the lads know exactly which bits are different, and which can be swapped across. Most Eunos specialists order their parts direct from Mazda dealers anyway.
sNow I imported my Supra TT over 5 years ago, before all this SVA etc. I think I saved around 4 or 5 grand, but to be really honest, its not really that much of a saving. It doesn't have leather heated seats, and there are some other differences such as plastic headlamps vs glass ones for the UK (although I prefer plastic as the glass ones stick out too much looking like a bug!).
Right, the differences and what I did about them are as follows:
shock absorbers are slightly different: I searched for one that was already fitted with Bilstein shock absorbers
No bonnet vent: Got one fitted, cost me £800 inc VAT and everything else.
UK type alloys swapped and fitted onto my car, cost me a little extra but not much as it already had UK type brake calipers (not all do, so be aware!)
Already had the bodykit fitted, which IMO looks better for the car.
Restricted to 118MPH or so: had it derestricted by Toyota dealer via TRD parts.
280BHP (all jap cars are limited to this): Uprated via above mentioned Toyota dealer (TRD I think) to 320BHP or so.
Rear fog lights needed to be sorted, done via a switch on the dash and changing one set of brake/tail lights to fog.
No heated leather seats. Done nothing about that.
CD player and rd/cassette all one unit, no separate 6 disc player. Did nothing about that.
No headlamp adjust. Nothing done about that either.
Also, importantly the UK car has two intercoolers, Jap one has only one. UK turbos are better quality and will last longer (apparently, can't confirm but this is what many tell me, not just Toyota dealers). In all the UK cars are better quality than the Jap ones. Also, the price difference used (especially Supras) is now very little, so if you can get a UK car, its better than a Jap one IMO.
In total I think I paid something like £27K for my car in the end, as Duty and VAT are 30% (nearly, its 10% of value, plus 17.5% of car value plus mentioned 10%, so its (cost & shipping + 10%) + 17.5% = cost & shipping + 29.25%) plus shipping costs, which again are used in the calculation for duty and VAT.
Some things work out cheaper, others not so. But at the time I bought mine (1997) 95M reg cars were being sold for around 31 to 35K. Mine only had around 11K miles (18K Kilometres) and was fully historied and bought from a Toyota dealer. One little thing I didn't know until after, was that cars older than 3 years are sold much cheaper due to strict MOT laws in Japan.
I think I have some details still lying around, although they are probably not current, they may still have some details of dealers to contact just to get an idea of prices. Sending them a fax is the best way due to time differences. If you want, let me know and I'll dig them out and email you.
But be aware, some models have LOTS of differences. Research it well.
Shit I've noticed most of my posts recently have been very, very long.
Right, the differences and what I did about them are as follows:
shock absorbers are slightly different: I searched for one that was already fitted with Bilstein shock absorbers
No bonnet vent: Got one fitted, cost me £800 inc VAT and everything else.
UK type alloys swapped and fitted onto my car, cost me a little extra but not much as it already had UK type brake calipers (not all do, so be aware!)
Already had the bodykit fitted, which IMO looks better for the car.
Restricted to 118MPH or so: had it derestricted by Toyota dealer via TRD parts.
280BHP (all jap cars are limited to this): Uprated via above mentioned Toyota dealer (TRD I think) to 320BHP or so.
Rear fog lights needed to be sorted, done via a switch on the dash and changing one set of brake/tail lights to fog.
No heated leather seats. Done nothing about that.
CD player and rd/cassette all one unit, no separate 6 disc player. Did nothing about that.
No headlamp adjust. Nothing done about that either.
Also, importantly the UK car has two intercoolers, Jap one has only one. UK turbos are better quality and will last longer (apparently, can't confirm but this is what many tell me, not just Toyota dealers). In all the UK cars are better quality than the Jap ones. Also, the price difference used (especially Supras) is now very little, so if you can get a UK car, its better than a Jap one IMO.
In total I think I paid something like £27K for my car in the end, as Duty and VAT are 30% (nearly, its 10% of value, plus 17.5% of car value plus mentioned 10%, so its (cost & shipping + 10%) + 17.5% = cost & shipping + 29.25%) plus shipping costs, which again are used in the calculation for duty and VAT.
Some things work out cheaper, others not so. But at the time I bought mine (1997) 95M reg cars were being sold for around 31 to 35K. Mine only had around 11K miles (18K Kilometres) and was fully historied and bought from a Toyota dealer. One little thing I didn't know until after, was that cars older than 3 years are sold much cheaper due to strict MOT laws in Japan.
I think I have some details still lying around, although they are probably not current, they may still have some details of dealers to contact just to get an idea of prices. Sending them a fax is the best way due to time differences. If you want, let me know and I'll dig them out and email you.
But be aware, some models have LOTS of differences. Research it well.
Shit I've noticed most of my posts recently have been very, very long.
Toyota are very good for imported cars "if it's got a Toyota badge on it we can help you" sorta thing.
Lots of other jap car companies . . . aren't.
The opnly major headache will be insurance, which can be between 50% and 100% higher than the equivalent UK car for absolutely no reason other than insureres being total pr1cks. My best quote on a UK Supra TT - £1000ish. On a J-Spec Supra TT (which is almost mechanically identical but 20bhp down due to different turbos) - £2200.
So, get insurance quotes before you buy, check with the relevant dealer, and take it from there. Also get in touch with the owners club for your prospective purchase and ask about specialist importers who get cars direct from japan (most jap cars go nowhere near the middle east), also specialist insurers. And ignore Quentin Wilson, he's a sensationalist fcukwit who should do more research before making sweeping generalisations.
Lots of other jap car companies . . . aren't.
The opnly major headache will be insurance, which can be between 50% and 100% higher than the equivalent UK car for absolutely no reason other than insureres being total pr1cks. My best quote on a UK Supra TT - £1000ish. On a J-Spec Supra TT (which is almost mechanically identical but 20bhp down due to different turbos) - £2200.
So, get insurance quotes before you buy, check with the relevant dealer, and take it from there. Also get in touch with the owners club for your prospective purchase and ask about specialist importers who get cars direct from japan (most jap cars go nowhere near the middle east), also specialist insurers. And ignore Quentin Wilson, he's a sensationalist fcukwit who should do more research before making sweeping generalisations.
With Scooby's the jap ones are usually better, for a start they have around 286bhp (WRX). The STI is better again because it has intercooler water spray, a blue printed engine, a quick shift 'box, diff locks, different suspension. You do run a risk because it could be dodgy, but then it's not like we are without car crime over here is it?! If you stick with a decent importer then they shoul;d know the ins and outs.
Big Chris said: So its more a case of shop around very very carefully and go over the car with a fine tooth comb.
Mainly concentrating on Scooby Turbo's....the WRX and STi versions-are these best avoided ensuring you stick with the standard 220bhp version? Plus insurance- Anyone know why it costs more for a import?
I'd much rather have an STI RA (race altered) than a standard 220bhp scoob, the RA is the lightened one and is much, much quicker than other scoobies out there. I know all this because I done a lot of research when I was thinking of buying one.
But then I drove an Integrale
Edited to add: The dealers may be a problem, I'm not sure, but my GTIR was always sorted by an independant specialist who will usually charge less than a dealer on a UK car and do a much better job.
>> Edited by moleamol on Wednesday 4th December 18:38
It is a difficult choice, not entirely happy with my new car....its just not as fast as i want it to and cant afford the TVR 
i like.
The Clio 172 and Scoobys have caught my eye for cheaper bonkers performance cars. Problem with the scoobys are the new model is smashing the prices of the old Turbo 2000 models. This is good in terms of buying but come re-sale time i dont want to lose £5000.
Deecisions...decisions............
i like. The Clio 172 and Scoobys have caught my eye for cheaper bonkers performance cars. Problem with the scoobys are the new model is smashing the prices of the old Turbo 2000 models. This is good in terms of buying but come re-sale time i dont want to lose £5000.
Deecisions...decisions............
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