Moving from research to a job that pays?
Discussion
This question is probably one for Northernboy, but all responses welcome. I undestand from reading your previous posts Northernboy, that you were a scientist, probably working for DRA or similar in the past. You seem to have made a sucessful transition into an entirely different career.
As a scientist in defence research, I was wondering what you thought to the change. Is the new job more demanding and satisfying, or does it just pay better? Was the transition an easy one to make?
I'm just curious what my options are, as I'm aware I'm never likely to get rich doing research without leaving for the USA. Despite the work being challenging and interesting, I'm thinking perhaps I won't be in research forever.
Anybody else got thoughts on this one?
As a scientist in defence research, I was wondering what you thought to the change. Is the new job more demanding and satisfying, or does it just pay better? Was the transition an easy one to make?
I'm just curious what my options are, as I'm aware I'm never likely to get rich doing research without leaving for the USA. Despite the work being challenging and interesting, I'm thinking perhaps I won't be in research forever.
Anybody else got thoughts on this one?
I found the work at the DRA profoundly unsatisfying. I was brought in in for my ability as a scientist, but found that with a lot of people, that counted for less than years served. I'd have my opinion ignored because I was so young.
If I produced an absolutely A1 piece of research, I'd get no feedback, just the same as if I'd produced a pile of crap (which I sometimes did).
In the new job (which I started on a graduate programme), things were immediately different. Individual responsibility was encouraged, as was innovation. People were paid and promoted (and sacked) according to ability, and this actually improved my work ethic, and performance, immensely.
The transition was quite easy. I was given a full 6 month traing course, which taught me everything I needed to know about economics, accountancy, and financial maths, as well as what the various roles and departments in the bank did.
I do miss physics. I was born a scientist, I didn't choose it. I just found that work in that role was nothing like the stuff I did at school or university.
If I'd not done public sector work, and academia, I might not realise how fortunate I am to be in my current job.
It has its downsides, of course. Long hours, quite a lot of stress, and the need to live in London, but overall, it's far far better than anything I've done before. I didn't make the move until I was 25, and we have a graduate here now who is 30. Beyond that age, I suppose it gets a bit harder to start.
If you are interested in it, please feel free to drop me a line with any specific questions.
If I produced an absolutely A1 piece of research, I'd get no feedback, just the same as if I'd produced a pile of crap (which I sometimes did).
In the new job (which I started on a graduate programme), things were immediately different. Individual responsibility was encouraged, as was innovation. People were paid and promoted (and sacked) according to ability, and this actually improved my work ethic, and performance, immensely.
The transition was quite easy. I was given a full 6 month traing course, which taught me everything I needed to know about economics, accountancy, and financial maths, as well as what the various roles and departments in the bank did.
I do miss physics. I was born a scientist, I didn't choose it. I just found that work in that role was nothing like the stuff I did at school or university.
If I'd not done public sector work, and academia, I might not realise how fortunate I am to be in my current job.
It has its downsides, of course. Long hours, quite a lot of stress, and the need to live in London, but overall, it's far far better than anything I've done before. I didn't make the move until I was 25, and we have a graduate here now who is 30. Beyond that age, I suppose it gets a bit harder to start.
If you are interested in it, please feel free to drop me a line with any specific questions.
MEMSdesign,
I did something similar, moving from a career in University contract research into industry. I must admit I have never looked back. My background is in photonics, fibre optics and the like, and I went, with most of my research group at the time, to work for a large telecoms company about two and a half years ago. This was at the height of the telecoms boom, and things were great, time not money was the limiting factor and we worked bloody hard to get a new product out of the door. Now things are a bit different, the company I work for is deep in the shit (can you guess who it is? not too hard) but still I don't regret it. The difference between me and Northernboy is that I stayed in engineering, and I picked a good time to make the change. As you probably know, optics has gone to the dogs, a few years ago anyone who knew what MEMS means could have commanded a ridiculous salary, now you would be lucky to find a relevant job. I worked for NPL for a bit, a similar arrangement to DRA as I recognise some of what Northernboy says, I'd say go for it. Its a funny thing about regret, its always better to regret something that you have done rather than something you haven't done.
I did something similar, moving from a career in University contract research into industry. I must admit I have never looked back. My background is in photonics, fibre optics and the like, and I went, with most of my research group at the time, to work for a large telecoms company about two and a half years ago. This was at the height of the telecoms boom, and things were great, time not money was the limiting factor and we worked bloody hard to get a new product out of the door. Now things are a bit different, the company I work for is deep in the shit (can you guess who it is? not too hard) but still I don't regret it. The difference between me and Northernboy is that I stayed in engineering, and I picked a good time to make the change. As you probably know, optics has gone to the dogs, a few years ago anyone who knew what MEMS means could have commanded a ridiculous salary, now you would be lucky to find a relevant job. I worked for NPL for a bit, a similar arrangement to DRA as I recognise some of what Northernboy says, I'd say go for it. Its a funny thing about regret, its always better to regret something that you have done rather than something you haven't done.
Mervyn, I'm guessing Nortel? But I'd say you're lucky to have held onto a job at all if you work in optical components there. I thought they'd cut and run all the way back to Canada in most areas.
Several difficult problems to overcome with my situation:
1) Own a house with girlfried in Worcestershire.
2) Girlfriend is also a sicentist in same organisation as me.
I'm glad that someone has heard of MEMS on PH. We are without doubt the best group in the UK in the area, but like you say, telecoms money had dried up. I thought about applying to work at Nortel myself, and I'm glad I didn't now. I'd be out of a job.
Several difficult problems to overcome with my situation:
1) Own a house with girlfried in Worcestershire.
2) Girlfriend is also a sicentist in same organisation as me.
I'm glad that someone has heard of MEMS on PH. We are without doubt the best group in the UK in the area, but like you say, telecoms money had dried up. I thought about applying to work at Nortel myself, and I'm glad I didn't now. I'd be out of a job.
MEMS,
Nope, worse than that, a british company! You're right about Nortel, although the site at Paignton still runs but is owned by Bookham. I only live down the road from you in Leamington, but I am afraid we are not recruiting right now, quite the opposite. My girlfriend is also a techy, same field but still in Academia, so we are in a similr position to you. Hope it works out OK.
Nope, worse than that, a british company! You're right about Nortel, although the site at Paignton still runs but is owned by Bookham. I only live down the road from you in Leamington, but I am afraid we are not recruiting right now, quite the opposite. My girlfriend is also a techy, same field but still in Academia, so we are in a similr position to you. Hope it works out OK.
I too used to work for a big government research place for 10 years, the work was interesting and challenging but gradually the paperpushers took over and I spent more time writing safety paper work staitng the bleedin obvious than doing any real research. I bailed last year and work for a small R&D company and the change is fantastic, innovation is encouraged, I have contributed to several patents and filed my own first one last week. True, is is far riskier - we have had recent redundancies but it is far more fun and rewarding. Make the leap... go-on do it!
Hmmm, can't comment on Bookham, at least not in public.......
Lucent do/did have a place in Swindon, I think it was a wireless or datacomms centre. Lucent spun off their component business as Agere, got much less than they wanted too when they floated it, and then Agere announced it was retreating from the optical market. The ggod and sexy research is all done at Bell Labs in Holmdel, NJ. Worth a visit if you get the chance, still lots of good toys.
Lucent do/did have a place in Swindon, I think it was a wireless or datacomms centre. Lucent spun off their component business as Agere, got much less than they wanted too when they floated it, and then Agere announced it was retreating from the optical market. The ggod and sexy research is all done at Bell Labs in Holmdel, NJ. Worth a visit if you get the chance, still lots of good toys.
Good toys not a problem. We've got plenty of those. The work we do is also moving away from contract research toward product development. I'm sure you are aware that DRA/DERA/QinetiQ is now a PPP, with The Carlye Group as the principle investor.
It's not that the work is boring that bothers me. I've got several patents in the pipeline, and the organisation is getting much more commercially focussed. What bothers me is staying as a researcher where I am, I'm never likely to be very well paid (correct me if I'm wrong).
I think I would probably like to stay doing technical work, but what are the prospects like in high tech product devlopment? I guess there are still jobs to be had in places like Cambridge, but I don't know.
The other question is at what point is it best to leave for pastures greener? If I'm going to change direction totally, I guess the earlier the better, but I'd rather not do that.
The other problem is the whole gf and house thing. To make things easy, it'd have to be commuting distance from Worcester. Any ideas of where to look? What did you guys do when you decided enough was enough? Agency?
It's not that the work is boring that bothers me. I've got several patents in the pipeline, and the organisation is getting much more commercially focussed. What bothers me is staying as a researcher where I am, I'm never likely to be very well paid (correct me if I'm wrong).
I think I would probably like to stay doing technical work, but what are the prospects like in high tech product devlopment? I guess there are still jobs to be had in places like Cambridge, but I don't know.
The other question is at what point is it best to leave for pastures greener? If I'm going to change direction totally, I guess the earlier the better, but I'd rather not do that.
The other problem is the whole gf and house thing. To make things easy, it'd have to be commuting distance from Worcester. Any ideas of where to look? What did you guys do when you decided enough was enough? Agency?
Mems - I am working with qinetiq at the moment
as an external headhunter - I recently put someone in Malvern.
Lost any mines off the south coast recently
your company has some VERY cool toys and actually is a great organisation, externally anyway. is there a management program you can go on ?
as an external headhunter - I recently put someone in Malvern.
Lost any mines off the south coast recently
your company has some VERY cool toys and actually is a great organisation, externally anyway. is there a management program you can go on ?
Oh, there's no denying we have probably the very best toys there are, but that doesn't mean we're paid well. The technical people who work here are not that particularly well paid, despite the fact about half of them have PhDs.
Gargamel said: Mems - I am working with qinetiq at the moment
as an external headhunter - I recently put someone in Malvern.
Lost any mines off the south coast recently
your company has some VERY cool toys and actually is a great organisation, externally anyway. is there a management program you can go on ?
I'm guessing you were recruiting marketing or executive people? They tend to get double or three times what a very good scientist would.
I'm still working in research science in the public sector and I sympathise with everyone's comments. It must loom large in most people's minds - whether to jump ship with all the hard earned skills etc to an unfamiliar world.
I faced this a few years ago when making the step from post doc contract work in universities to lectureships. I was posting my CV to recruitment companies looking for R&D work in industry and contemplating non R&D work in .. well finance or whatever really.
I was lucky and something did come up in academia and now I'm glad I stayed because the job I'm doing is very rewarding. Not financially but in temrs of creativity and freedom.
I work with industry and especially R&D in industry and to be honets I'm not impressed. From what I've seen I wouldn't go into R&D in industry for twice my salary. Backstabbing, defending 'turf' and worst of all blatant disregard for proper scientific method (my eyes nearly popped out of my head at one recent example !!).
I accept this is only from my limited and biased experience and viewpoint so one mustn't take this as a generalisation.
If you could find a company that will reward you and not just financially but with responsibility and the power to go with it, then go for it sounds like all teh good points of my job but with proper pay commensurate with responsibility.
good luck
I faced this a few years ago when making the step from post doc contract work in universities to lectureships. I was posting my CV to recruitment companies looking for R&D work in industry and contemplating non R&D work in .. well finance or whatever really.
I was lucky and something did come up in academia and now I'm glad I stayed because the job I'm doing is very rewarding. Not financially but in temrs of creativity and freedom.
I work with industry and especially R&D in industry and to be honets I'm not impressed. From what I've seen I wouldn't go into R&D in industry for twice my salary. Backstabbing, defending 'turf' and worst of all blatant disregard for proper scientific method (my eyes nearly popped out of my head at one recent example !!).
I accept this is only from my limited and biased experience and viewpoint so one mustn't take this as a generalisation.
If you could find a company that will reward you and not just financially but with responsibility and the power to go with it, then go for it sounds like all teh good points of my job but with proper pay commensurate with responsibility.
good luck
mervynP - I'm guessing you work in Coventry? Not many British players in photonics to choose from any more! I'm one of your competitors, though more on the Sales side (was once an Engineer though!) And I too am familiar with the term MEMS.
MEMS - I'd say go for it but be prepared for a shock when you realise how many good people with a track record of R&D in this area are looking for jobs right now. If nothing else might make you realise things aren't so bad where you are. Good luck whatever way you go.
MEMS - I'd say go for it but be prepared for a shock when you realise how many good people with a track record of R&D in this area are looking for jobs right now. If nothing else might make you realise things aren't so bad where you are. Good luck whatever way you go.
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