instead of point on your licence....
Discussion
you go around a town with a copper and they examine your driving. and show you pictures of nasty crashes, and maybe you pay more, and some class room lessons. But it means no points and so your insurance wont be affected.
did anyone else see this concept, it was on 5th gear earlier.
Sounds good but there MUST be a catch, it is england afterall
did anyone else see this concept, it was on 5th gear earlier.
Sounds good but there MUST be a catch, it is england afterall
The catch is the scheme is only for people doing less than 35 in a 30. ie people who until recently wouldn't have even got a ticket. The result now more than ever is look at your speedo not where you're going.
The scheme is being done primarily for PR so the ACPO can say they're doing their bit to educate offenders (IMHO). I have read comments that the police are seriously limiting the number of places on these courses because they are very expensive to put on (source: Bristol Evening Post a few months ago quoting someone from Avon & Somerset Police Force). I find this strange because if the cost of a life lost is a couple of million pounds as often quoted, I would expect the cost benefit to be in favour of unlimited spaces on these courses. Of course this assumes that the courses did any good or that the people on the courses were a danger to other road users and pedestrians in the first place. Personally I would rather have drivers who can prioritise looking where they are going rather than checking their speed every 15 seconds.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 16th December 23:36
The scheme is being done primarily for PR so the ACPO can say they're doing their bit to educate offenders (IMHO). I have read comments that the police are seriously limiting the number of places on these courses because they are very expensive to put on (source: Bristol Evening Post a few months ago quoting someone from Avon & Somerset Police Force). I find this strange because if the cost of a life lost is a couple of million pounds as often quoted, I would expect the cost benefit to be in favour of unlimited spaces on these courses. Of course this assumes that the courses did any good or that the people on the courses were a danger to other road users and pedestrians in the first place. Personally I would rather have drivers who can prioritise looking where they are going rather than checking their speed every 15 seconds.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 16th December 23:36
They already do that here in Florida, USA. Only problems?
1. It is EXPENSIVE (soemtimes the violation is cheaper)
2. You can only do it a limited number of times
The way they get around the governmental expense is they farm it out to contractors. The contractors kick back some money to the state for each student and pocket the rest. Nice, eh? (nothing like having a captive audience)
ErnestM
1. It is EXPENSIVE (soemtimes the violation is cheaper)
2. You can only do it a limited number of times
The way they get around the governmental expense is they farm it out to contractors. The contractors kick back some money to the state for each student and pocket the rest. Nice, eh? (nothing like having a captive audience)
ErnestM
I can't believe the stats quoted on 5th gear.
If u drive at 30, you stop at point A
If u drive at 35, your speed is still 21mph at point A.
Sorry, but I don't believe any crap thats quoted as a stat, so need volunteers to do an experiment.
My rough driving experiment had me doing 15mph at point A but my speedo is shite.
If u drive at 30, you stop at point A
If u drive at 35, your speed is still 21mph at point A.
Sorry, but I don't believe any crap thats quoted as a stat, so need volunteers to do an experiment.
My rough driving experiment had me doing 15mph at point A but my speedo is shite.
Byff, there was a similar thing on an advert once, and the car stopped further at 35mph than at 30. But they locked the wheels! so they were skidding rather than slowing down as fast as possiable, thats probably how the 5th gear crew got that figure.
edited to add:
Ill be a volunteer, I drive, you time??? (your car)
>> Edited by alan_driver on Tuesday 17th December 09:34
edited to add:
Ill be a volunteer, I drive, you time??? (your car)
>> Edited by alan_driver on Tuesday 17th December 09:34
Don't know about 5th gear BUT I do know the advert used the Highway code for its figures. I was reading the code for the IAM practice at the time and read the stupid stopping distances.
Those figures are way way out of date, and totally rubbish. For example at 30mph the average dry stopping distance in the highway code is: 23Metres (yes the length of an average swimming pool or 6 car lengths) and at 40mph its 36metres.
When using these figures you can see where the cr@p quotes come from.
Those figures are way way out of date, and totally rubbish. For example at 30mph the average dry stopping distance in the highway code is: 23Metres (yes the length of an average swimming pool or 6 car lengths) and at 40mph its 36metres.
When using these figures you can see where the cr@p quotes come from.
GrahamG said: The courses aren't just for 35 in a 30, at least not where I live anyway!
They're not just for speeding offences either.
In the policestate of Avon & Somerset the courses are for only those caught doing less than 35 in a 30. In Surrey you have a Chief Constable who is more clued up than his colleagues when it comes to diciphering political anti motorist spin, than in the rest of the country.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 17th December 14:41
My wife got caught doing something like 42 in 30. She was told that she could avoid being prosecuted if she attended a 1 hour road safety video, being shown in the town centre in 2 hours time. No cost, no points. Definitely better than the alternative. (Hampshire)
However, if I had to sit through a 1 day seminar and be condescended to and patronized, lose a day's holiday and pay £95 for the privilege; I think I'd rather take the 3 points & £60.
However, if I had to sit through a 1 day seminar and be condescended to and patronized, lose a day's holiday and pay £95 for the privilege; I think I'd rather take the 3 points & £60.
I sat watching it last night on 5th Gear and thought could you 'fail' the course, loved all the lame excuses for speeding until 5th Gear chap just said 'I like driving fast'
And the brake thing, just go in with your own figures and state that in your performance car you could have stopped well before the kid in the road, and why did no one ask what he was doing in the road anyway?
Then take numpty out for a ride in your performance car and show him just how slow 30 feels i.e. not getting out of 1st gear but take all corners, islands, 90 degree turns at 30mph to show it's still 'fun'
And the brake thing, just go in with your own figures and state that in your performance car you could have stopped well before the kid in the road, and why did no one ask what he was doing in the road anyway?
Then take numpty out for a ride in your performance car and show him just how slow 30 feels i.e. not getting out of 1st gear but take all corners, islands, 90 degree turns at 30mph to show it's still 'fun'
I have to say that I'm all in favour of these kinds of things, in principle, at least. They should be funded mby the miscreant, who has the choice of the fine/point/court appearance or doing the 1-hour video/half-day/one-day course ads appropriate. The key issue is that it should be an option in the armoury of qualified traffic police officers, not camera geeks, who can make no such judgement. If an officer observes an offence and judges it to be the result of ignorance/momentary inattention he/she should be able to make the judgement that "re-edication" (horrible phrase) is better than punishment. someone looking at camera stills can make no such judgement.
A side-effect: lots of bureaucracy, as the driving schools gear up to run these things, and the bureaucrats set up and run a control mechanism to police standards for such courses, collect statistics to prove how good/bad they are (accordoing to political imperative) etc.
A side-effect: lots of bureaucracy, as the driving schools gear up to run these things, and the bureaucrats set up and run a control mechanism to police standards for such courses, collect statistics to prove how good/bad they are (accordoing to political imperative) etc.
Several yeas a go shortly after taking my test I was giving my sister a lift she was in the back talking to her mate and they kept distracting me. Eventually I lost my rag with her and shouted at them both and told them that what they where doing could well cost some one there life if I was cosentrating on them and not the driving. So having recently passed my test I told them the stooping distance for 60 MPH and asked them to show me how far they thort this was on the road. After doing this I got back in the car with then a Fiat punto and got up to 60 then performed an emergency stop. We all got out of the car and measured out how far we had come since the bridge we had just been under where I started to stop. However I ended up having to lie to them to as the car had stopped significantly shorter distance than the published figures.
But they both have a healthy respect for cars and there stopping distance now and always assume that the diver had not seen them.
But they both have a healthy respect for cars and there stopping distance now and always assume that the diver had not seen them.
smeagol said: Don't know about 5th gear BUT I do know the advert used the Highway code for its figures. I was reading the code for the IAM practice at the time and read the stupid stopping distances.
Those figures are way way out of date, and totally rubbish. For example at 30mph the average dry stopping distance in the highway code is: 23Metres (yes the length of an average swimming pool or 6 car lengths) and at 40mph its 36metres.
When using these figures you can see where the cr@p quotes come from.
You're not allowing for reaction times, they remain constant. So at 30 you will have covered about 7 or 8 of the 23metres, before braking occurs. At 40 you will cover around 10metres. Also, bear in mind, that decelleration is not linear in terms of distance covered. 10 to 0mph covers less distance, than 100 to 90mph. Let's not forget the fully laden vehicles aswell, you can add a few metres for the wife, kids and shopping.(insert wife jokes here)
That said, they are calculated on old vehicle designs and so are flawed to a degree, but they do have to allow for the old / crap vehicles still on our roads today.
Andy
Byff said: I can't believe the stats quoted on 5th gear.
If u drive at 30, you stop at point A
If u drive at 35, your speed is still 21mph at point A.
Sorry, but I don't believe any crap thats quoted as a stat, so need volunteers to do an experiment.
My rough driving experiment had me doing 15mph at point A but my speedo is shite.
This assumes they're both looking where they're going.
But the 30mph driver wasn't looking where they were going, and their reaction time was 1 second, thus they were still doing 15 mph when the hit the pedestrian. The 35 mph driver was paying attention and swerved to avoid said pedestrian, damaging a parked Mini Metro, but not hitting the pedestrian.
My stepdad recently had his car written off. He was stopped at a light, no-one in front, no reason not to see his car either - white, clean, hi-level brake light, big fat arsed car (Corolla). A Lady in a Colt comes up behind and didn't even brake at 30ish mph - WHAM into the back of his car (the guy behind her was a witness to this).
dazren "The result now more than ever is look at your speedo not where you're going."
100% correct dazren ... I'm sorry to say that when the kid runs out in the road in front of me now I'll probably be looking at my speedo - splat. What f***ing stupid prats are making all these rules?
Take car phones - have they NOW got it that it's really not a problem actually holding the damn thing whilst driving - the problem is the talking and listening that's dangerous as your mind is not concentrating on the driving.
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