Abu Hamza - what a delightful chap...
Discussion
I watched Newsnight last night and thought Jeremy Paxman was going to break with tradition and lapse into a frenzied moment of common assault and battery.
I am a kaffir, apparently and next time I'm sunning myself in Dubai, must be ready for randomn enslavement and resale in the local bazaar at the hands of the indigenous population.
If I resist, I am fair game and should simply be killed.
Also, banks (and post offices?) are part of a Zionist conspiracy that promotes usery and other sinful acts and it is therefore perfectly acceptable to rob them.
I see...
Now, the Americans want to arrest this chap for his rather explicit terrorsist sympathies and they say, involvement therein and the French too, don't much care for his prescence in our midst.
Legally, I'm sure the British reserve is technically correct in it's course of action. However, if this man is tripping by on the promotion of religious hatred (perfectly legal) as opposed to racial hatred (not so) then I suggest that we have finally lost the plot to a degree that will not be remedied until a mushroom cloud is towering over London.
What say y'all?
I am a kaffir, apparently and next time I'm sunning myself in Dubai, must be ready for randomn enslavement and resale in the local bazaar at the hands of the indigenous population.
If I resist, I am fair game and should simply be killed.
Also, banks (and post offices?) are part of a Zionist conspiracy that promotes usery and other sinful acts and it is therefore perfectly acceptable to rob them.
I see...
Now, the Americans want to arrest this chap for his rather explicit terrorsist sympathies and they say, involvement therein and the French too, don't much care for his prescence in our midst.
Legally, I'm sure the British reserve is technically correct in it's course of action. However, if this man is tripping by on the promotion of religious hatred (perfectly legal) as opposed to racial hatred (not so) then I suggest that we have finally lost the plot to a degree that will not be remedied until a mushroom cloud is towering over London.
What say y'all?
Well in our country we do what the bible says
"do unto others" etc
So Mr Hamza, if you care to walk this way for your summary execution....
Religon, no bloody need for it
Gem from Mr Hamza, "God makes the laws not polititians"
And Paxman "If this country is so bad why don't you leave"
"do unto others" etc
So Mr Hamza, if you care to walk this way for your summary execution....
Religon, no bloody need for it
Gem from Mr Hamza, "God makes the laws not polititians"
And Paxman "If this country is so bad why don't you leave"
In all seriousness, the system should have to guarantee the relative freedoms of it's subjects but this is just such a p1ss take.
You simply wouldn't get away with this in many other countries and quite frankly, IMHO, rightly so.
When asked about the option of leaving if he found Blighty so distatsteful, the enlightened Sheikh mumbled something about 'being stuck in this toilet.'
When you look at the Palestinian problem and despair, this kind of zelous idiot simply adds to the feeling of hopelessness.
You simply wouldn't get away with this in many other countries and quite frankly, IMHO, rightly so.
When asked about the option of leaving if he found Blighty so distatsteful, the enlightened Sheikh mumbled something about 'being stuck in this toilet.'
When you look at the Palestinian problem and despair, this kind of zelous idiot simply adds to the feeling of hopelessness.
deltaf, you merely embarass yourself and show your total ignorance by posting such tripe on this board.
Jason you are correct, the act does include Religious Hatred now, it was updated last year post 9/11. Hey derestrictor Blair actually did something you wanted now how rare is that
Abu Hamaza has some particularly unpleasant ideas, however he has a right in a free democratic country to say such things. If however he is using his position and his rhetoric to inspire acts of hatred / violence then the law can be used to counteract him. If this is the case then his activities are a matter for the police.
Free speech is a fundamental principle of this countries democratic heritage, and we must always tread carefully to preserve it no matter how unpleasant the points of view we may hear as a result. I fear that as soon as we prescribe laws telling us what we can or cannot say then we have failed as a country.
Jason you are correct, the act does include Religious Hatred now, it was updated last year post 9/11. Hey derestrictor Blair actually did something you wanted now how rare is that
Abu Hamaza has some particularly unpleasant ideas, however he has a right in a free democratic country to say such things. If however he is using his position and his rhetoric to inspire acts of hatred / violence then the law can be used to counteract him. If this is the case then his activities are a matter for the police.
Free speech is a fundamental principle of this countries democratic heritage, and we must always tread carefully to preserve it no matter how unpleasant the points of view we may hear as a result. I fear that as soon as we prescribe laws telling us what we can or cannot say then we have failed as a country.
Mr Tony (is this a Goodfellas-type ref, btw? [awesome flick!]) - you are spot on.
Problem is, what price such freedom?
Suppose a significant terrorist attack occurred in Britain. This guy gets out his megaphone and appeals to the Finsbury massive to big up their uzis and steady themselves for war against the heathen. What do we do with him then?
This guy has to break laws to be dealt with, as you say but since he kept referring to non-fundamentalists last night with the phrase 'your people,' one wonders why we should continue to give him succour when our allies wish otherwise.
Maybe a case of keeping friends close but enemies closer?
I quite appreciate the need for individual liberty but maybe, just maybe, that ubiquitous Hollywoodism, 'National Securuty,' really may override such issues sometimes?
What a situation.
Problem is, what price such freedom?
Suppose a significant terrorist attack occurred in Britain. This guy gets out his megaphone and appeals to the Finsbury massive to big up their uzis and steady themselves for war against the heathen. What do we do with him then?
This guy has to break laws to be dealt with, as you say but since he kept referring to non-fundamentalists last night with the phrase 'your people,' one wonders why we should continue to give him succour when our allies wish otherwise.
Maybe a case of keeping friends close but enemies closer?
I quite appreciate the need for individual liberty but maybe, just maybe, that ubiquitous Hollywoodism, 'National Securuty,' really may override such issues sometimes?
What a situation.
Freedom of speech is all well and good until of course, said speech is used to promote the removal of said freedom and the society within which the freedom is provided and assured.
I certainly wouldn't feel my civil rights were under threat if this guy and his like were loaded onto a ship and sailed out into the channel, to wait for the next car transporter to tootle along blindly.
I certainly wouldn't feel my civil rights were under threat if this guy and his like were loaded onto a ship and sailed out into the channel, to wait for the next car transporter to tootle along blindly.
swilly said: Freedom of speech is all well and good until of course, said speech is used to promote the removal of said freedom and the society within which the freedom is provided and assured.
I certainly wouldn't feel my civil rights were under threat if this guy and his like were loaded onto a ship and sailed out into the channel, to wait for the next car transporter to tootle along blindly.
My reaction, I must say, tends to be along the lines of "B I N G O !!!"
marki said: i say, you got to hand it to the Israeli`s they know what to do with this sort of "person" and are not afraid to do it
erm...I think the israeli's take it a little too far and, in my opinion, on occasions seem interested only in their own well being with a blatant disregard for anyone else.
Maybe a case of keeping friends close but enemies closer?
Probably true, though it's possible that this guy is a mad old sod with no serious influence over anyone in whatever community anyway. I don't really know the background, unfortunately I missed Paxman last night. Favourite still has to be the Michael Howard interview though
In terms of free speech there is no compromise I'm afraid. Free speech except on suject A,B and C is not free speech! However much we might object to view A/B/C. This can sometimes lead us into difficult water (see the civil rights lawyers currently defending the KKK in the US!), but you must remember, defending free speech is in no way defending the views expressed by those that excercise that fundamental right.
If we in the West preport to be in favour of free speech, and then ban (even what the majority believe to be seriously unpalettable) figures from speaking, the rest of the world would rightly scream blue murder at our double standards.
How can we criticise Iraq (for example) for controlling the media and public speaking / gathering if we do the very same thing at home?
From what ive seen of Islam, it and terrorism go hand in bloody hand.
If someone dosent agree with it then its "holy war" time.
Treating women like shite is all par for the course with this religious knackers.
Islam is supposed to be a religion of tolerance, so they keep on telling us all.
How tolerant is it to tell others to kill someone whos views dont match with theirs?
The fact is, that followers of this religion as all others simply cannot handle any criticism of it, to the point of killing anyone who questions it.
I hate religions of all denominations so i guess im enemy number one, but in the words of Salman Rushdie; "who gives a
?".
If someone dosent agree with it then its "holy war" time.
Treating women like shite is all par for the course with this religious knackers.
Islam is supposed to be a religion of tolerance, so they keep on telling us all.
How tolerant is it to tell others to kill someone whos views dont match with theirs?
The fact is, that followers of this religion as all others simply cannot handle any criticism of it, to the point of killing anyone who questions it.
I hate religions of all denominations so i guess im enemy number one, but in the words of Salman Rushdie; "who gives a
?".Right off on a slightly unpopular tangent
As it seems we're off to war with the nice people of Iraq before the weather turns a bit nasty I would really like to see Iraq make an effort, last time they were surrendering to news crews, this time I would really like to see them kick US butt Vietnam styleee
Now this may not be a popular view but it'll make much better telly, and Hollywood spin-off movies.
As it seems we're off to war with the nice people of Iraq before the weather turns a bit nasty I would really like to see Iraq make an effort, last time they were surrendering to news crews, this time I would really like to see them kick US butt Vietnam styleee
Now this may not be a popular view but it'll make much better telly, and Hollywood spin-off movies.
Deltaf, you are partly right and partly wrong. The religion itself does not say 'death to all unbelievers'. This is the 'interpretation' given by terrorists to attempt to explain their actions.
In my view, as in yours, any religion that does not treat all people, be they male, female, religious, atheist or whatever equally is not a 'good' religion. Christianity is hardly brilliant either, remember the Crusades or more recently Northern Ireland (and that is just between 2 factions of the same religion).
Religion should be used for moral guidance but should also be taken in conjunction with common sense, everybody is equal and has an equal right to live their own lives.
As far as the outspoken sheik goes, he has a right to spout what we think is nonsense, but should he call 'his people' to arms then maybe we should chuck him on a plane to the USA with a welcome note attached?
In my view, as in yours, any religion that does not treat all people, be they male, female, religious, atheist or whatever equally is not a 'good' religion. Christianity is hardly brilliant either, remember the Crusades or more recently Northern Ireland (and that is just between 2 factions of the same religion).
Religion should be used for moral guidance but should also be taken in conjunction with common sense, everybody is equal and has an equal right to live their own lives.
As far as the outspoken sheik goes, he has a right to spout what we think is nonsense, but should he call 'his people' to arms then maybe we should chuck him on a plane to the USA with a welcome note attached?
kevinday said:
As far as the outspoken sheik goes...should he call 'his people' to arms then maybe we should chuck him on a plane to the USA with a welcome note attached?
Kevin - isn't this what he IS saying/inciting?
I think the important point raised over this issue is whether, if at all, we can tolerate such blatant treachery, taking into account our liberties?
If I stand in a pulpit and encourage my flock to knock off the local branch of Barclays 'cos I hate Jews, how long should/would I be able to continue such provarication, without authoritarian intervention of some descrpt?
If I address a rally at the top of The Mall demanding the immediate execution of EIIR, this may be free speech but is it not also treasonous?
At the end of the day, I realise the danger. I thought The Sex Pistols were bloody superb, as did a few others, although many in 1977 thought society was collapsing with such anarchic jibberish! Free speech of course but here's the thing - surely progressive, proud societies should have the basic intelligence to acknowledge when they are having the Royal Michael taken out of them and act in their own defence?
This guy isn't some completely stupid punk but an entirely political animal. I guess the question is, just HOW much sh1t are we prepared to take?
Emotional reaction, this, I acknowledge but it drives me nuts.
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