Can I claim on my write off?
Discussion
On boxing day,a nice 80 year old woman decided to pull out on me in my immaculate, J-reg Mark 2 Golf GTI 16v. This has resulted in my car being written off, and has left me with whiplash etc.
My question is: Can I claim for all the work that has gone into the car during the last year? It had a full leather interior, new sports suspension, new wheels and tyres, new exhaust, new clutch, new this and new that. The paintwork was in A1 condition, as was the interior. I have all my receipts etc.
Her insurance company will only try to give me rock bottom book price, I know. But price guides such as " Parker's" are not realistic prices. Just look at the classsifieds in "The Golf" and "Performance VW" magazines for the difference. Can I use these as evidence against the insurance companies?
Also I only had 2 days off over xmas and she's messed them up, as it happened on the first day, can i get compensation for this? Money grabbing I know, but I am going to lose out here unless i do something.
Advice is appreciated.
ArmyNick
My question is: Can I claim for all the work that has gone into the car during the last year? It had a full leather interior, new sports suspension, new wheels and tyres, new exhaust, new clutch, new this and new that. The paintwork was in A1 condition, as was the interior. I have all my receipts etc.
Her insurance company will only try to give me rock bottom book price, I know. But price guides such as " Parker's" are not realistic prices. Just look at the classsifieds in "The Golf" and "Performance VW" magazines for the difference. Can I use these as evidence against the insurance companies?
Also I only had 2 days off over xmas and she's messed them up, as it happened on the first day, can i get compensation for this? Money grabbing I know, but I am going to lose out here unless i do something.
Advice is appreciated.
ArmyNick
I am sorry to hear of your loss, but I'm affraid that 's exactly what it will be. Your loss. Unless of course you had you car covered under an agreed value policy? If not then I'm affraid it's book price. As for ruining Christmas, your very unlikely to be sucsessful in a compensation claim. The best thing to do IMO is to buy the wreck back from the insurers, strip all the fancy bits and go hunting for a new car to rebuild. Then talk to some single marque insurers or perhaps classic insurers and negotiate an Agreed Value policy. Best of luck, Simon.
P.S. Did you inform the insurance company of all the work that has gone into the car? If not it may be your undoing, as these BA
RDS will wriggle out of their responsibilities at the slightest chance, and failure to notify them of ANY change to the vehilce, even the change from cloth to leather can and probably will result in the policy becoming null and void.
>> Edited by Simonelite501 on Saturday 28th December 07:48
P.S. Did you inform the insurance company of all the work that has gone into the car? If not it may be your undoing, as these BA
RDS will wriggle out of their responsibilities at the slightest chance, and failure to notify them of ANY change to the vehilce, even the change from cloth to leather can and probably will result in the policy becoming null and void. >> Edited by Simonelite501 on Saturday 28th December 07:48
As for informing my insurance company of the mods, 1. I'm claiming off her insurance company not mine, and 2. The mods were not performance enhancing, apart from making the car safer. i.e Better brakes.
Usually they only want to know if it makes it quicker or considerably more expensive, but I know what you mean.
I did have my car insured for £3500 on my policy which is a fair price for the car.
Usually they only want to know if it makes it quicker or considerably more expensive, but I know what you mean.
I did have my car insured for £3500 on my policy which is a fair price for the car.
If you have all the receipts and a valid MOT, and you can prove that the market value of your vehicle is higher than Parker's or Glass's guides, then you should be able to increase your payout. Ask for the insurer's engineer/assessor to inspect the vehicle - if you're not happy you can arrange your own inspection and negotiate. You may also be able to claim some or all of the cost of this back if you're successful. Bear in mind that, although you might have told the insurance company what the car is worth to you, it's what the car is worth on the open market that will determine what you are offered. When you say the car was insured for £3500 on your own policy, you'll probably find that this is an estimate of value for assessment of premium purposes - your company will pay out only what the car is worth on the day it was written off, which may be more or less than you indicated.
As regards the loss of holiday, if you have ULR (uninsured loss recovery/legal expenses) insurance you can try a claim through that. Don't hold your breath; you haven't had to miss work or been injured (at least you haven't mentioned if you were) so it'll be difficult to prove a loss.
Lastly, be aware that when the insurance company pay you out THEY will own your Golf - or what's left of it - you don't get the salvage back unless you ask, and if you do, they will deduct an amount from the settlement equal to the scrap value of the car - in effect they're paying you out in part cash, part goods.
As regards the loss of holiday, if you have ULR (uninsured loss recovery/legal expenses) insurance you can try a claim through that. Don't hold your breath; you haven't had to miss work or been injured (at least you haven't mentioned if you were) so it'll be difficult to prove a loss.
Lastly, be aware that when the insurance company pay you out THEY will own your Golf - or what's left of it - you don't get the salvage back unless you ask, and if you do, they will deduct an amount from the settlement equal to the scrap value of the car - in effect they're paying you out in part cash, part goods.
hmm you are supposed to notify your insurance company of ANY modifications.
out of interest if they are gonna pay book value for a car anyway what would happen if you state your car is say £1000 when its worth £3000... your premium would be less and you'd get book value anyway? would this work?
out of interest if they are gonna pay book value for a car anyway what would happen if you state your car is say £1000 when its worth £3000... your premium would be less and you'd get book value anyway? would this work?
Thanks for the info.
I'm gonna claim for whiplash and for some bruising and shock etc. (Thought i was going home in the ambulance
, as i already have some my neck bones welded thanks to the army.) So I think the phycological factor will come into effect!
God knows how anyone walked away from that one, just as well i wasn't booting it.
I will bear in mind the buying back idea. What if they offer me peanuts, can I turn round to them and say, " Keep your money and you find me a similar year car, same colour with leather and up-rated suspension etc"?
I'm gonna claim for whiplash and for some bruising and shock etc. (Thought i was going home in the ambulance
, as i already have some my neck bones welded thanks to the army.) So I think the phycological factor will come into effect! God knows how anyone walked away from that one, just as well i wasn't booting it.
I will bear in mind the buying back idea. What if they offer me peanuts, can I turn round to them and say, " Keep your money and you find me a similar year car, same colour with leather and up-rated suspension etc"?
shadowninja said: hmm you are supposed to notify your insurance company of ANY modifications.
out of interest if they are gonna pay book value for a car anyway what would happen if you state your car is say £1000 when its worth £3000... your premium would be less and you'd get book value anyway? would this work?
Not really - this sort of value would not figure in most premium calculations as it's fairly immaterial - car value is not really a factor until you get up past £12-£15K in most standard policies. Why? I hear you ask...because the most expensive bit of the payout is likely to be the other guy's personal injury claim. Say your car is worth £10k, and you've said it's worth £12k in the hope of getting more in the event of a claim, or £8k in the hope of a reduced premium. You're driving about minding yor own business at 29mph along the High Street, when you hit a patch of black ice, lose control, and hit a bus stop. Your car is stove in at the front/roof from the concrete bus stop landing on it and is written off. The bus stop and shelter are wrecked; £3500 to the council for repair. Not too bad; until you look at the people that were standing in it. One male, aged 35, going home from shopping with his wife and three year old son. The male has two broken legs (£5k apiece) and a head injury (depending on severity and length of any handicap, £5k - £250k, plus loss of earnings - his salary was £30k; say he was off for 6 months and suffered no permanent damage, you're looking at £25k damages minimum) The wife is killed when the roof of the shelter falls on her (£50k, plus care costs for the next 15 years for the son as she was a full-time housewife and mother, say £10k/annum) and the three-year old escapes with a broken arm (£3k) - but the three-year old has by law until his 21st birthday to claim additional damages, as it is medically proven that trauma at an early age can bring on symptoms much later in life. Total cost of your car payout: £10,000. Total cost of everything else: £241,500 plus any additional claims from the boy. And I've been gentle - there were only three injured people, and the wife died, if she'd survived with permanent injury or the husband had lost the use of his legs, we'd've been talking seven figure payouts.
Now, whether the insurer pays out £243,500 (car insured for £12k) or £239,500 (car insured for £8k) it's really neither here nor there in the scheme of things, is it?
armynick said: Thanks for the info.
I will bear in mind the buying back idea. What if they offer me peanuts, can I turn round to them and say, " Keep your money and you find me a similar year car, same colour with leather and up-rated suspension etc"?
You can try it, but be prepared to be told to go forth and multiply
they are only required to pay out the value of the motor...but if they want any chance of nabbing you away from your current insurer, they should be able to point you in the right direction and help you as much as possible - you're a potential future customer, if they treat you like sh!te they're doing themselves out of some business. noted, loaf. But aren't they also legaly liable to make good any loss occured by me, as their client is at fault and they have taken on responsibility for the clients actions.
If not, the law is wrong, and maybe i would have to go through a civil action to regain my loses? I shouldn't have to though as this is what insurance companies are there for.
If not, the law is wrong, and maybe i would have to go through a civil action to regain my loses? I shouldn't have to though as this is what insurance companies are there for.
I would seriously keep my head down, go for the 'vanilla' claim then buy back from insurance company. Though you may think the mods you made were not notifiable they ARE. For example, by fitting a leather interior you are making the car more attractive to thieves. The underwriters will take that into consideration when quoting on your car. By modifying the brakes you are moving away from standard manufacturers approved parts and this would also need to be considered by the underwriters (whether it's AP 6 pots or simply braided brake hoses). This mod will be of particular interest to the other party's insurance company.
Keep in mind that the bottom line with insurance companies is to make, and save, money. The more fuss you make the more attractive it is to them to investigate any possibility to remove themselves from liability. I can virtually guarantee that if the other party's claims investigator is called in he WILL inspect your write-off and he will find the modifications and they WILL refuse to pay out.
I worked for a major insurance company for a while and I've seen many similar cases (and you think you're hacked off by big red phones).
Edited as I forgot to add:
Don't be blase about your insurance company being blind to your modifications as the fault was with the other driver. Though the insurance companies compete/fight for business they have a mutual interest in sharing such information. If they didn't then a LOT of claims would be passed when, in their eyes, they shouldn't be, this is why your insurance company will happily grass you up as the next time it may be to their benefit. Also bear in mind that if you tell porkies about your convictions, claims etc this will now be picked up by the shared database that all insurance companies now use (forget the name of it) and if your insurance is voided by any company you will find it harder to get cover than a drunk driver who lives in Easterhouse and has just mown down an invalided granny and her grandchildren on the pavement.
>> Edited by Del Sydyway on Saturday 28th December 15:29
Keep in mind that the bottom line with insurance companies is to make, and save, money. The more fuss you make the more attractive it is to them to investigate any possibility to remove themselves from liability. I can virtually guarantee that if the other party's claims investigator is called in he WILL inspect your write-off and he will find the modifications and they WILL refuse to pay out.
I worked for a major insurance company for a while and I've seen many similar cases (and you think you're hacked off by big red phones).
Edited as I forgot to add:
Don't be blase about your insurance company being blind to your modifications as the fault was with the other driver. Though the insurance companies compete/fight for business they have a mutual interest in sharing such information. If they didn't then a LOT of claims would be passed when, in their eyes, they shouldn't be, this is why your insurance company will happily grass you up as the next time it may be to their benefit. Also bear in mind that if you tell porkies about your convictions, claims etc this will now be picked up by the shared database that all insurance companies now use (forget the name of it) and if your insurance is voided by any company you will find it harder to get cover than a drunk driver who lives in Easterhouse and has just mown down an invalided granny and her grandchildren on the pavement.
>> Edited by Del Sydyway on Saturday 28th December 15:29
The leather interior, pipe and wheels were on the car when I bought it. Although I did change the exhaust and the wheels due to them being the wrong off-set and then exhaust dropped off last week
As for the other company not paying out due to me not informing my insurance company, I believe that they can only do that if the mods were a contributing factor to the cause of the accident , or the car was in an un-worthy state which would've led to a MOT failure.
You could argue that when people change the brand of tyre or brake pad, they have carried out non-standard mods. I would argue the case that the up-rated brakes prevented the accident from being worse and that the up-rated suspension made the car safer on the road.
(I remember this happening to a biker!)
At the end of the day, their client caused a dangerous crash. She has no leg to stand on and I believe the old bill are prosecuting her. (She's also stone deaf) As I was not doing anything illegal and all my docs were in order, they'd better pay up ! Or elase..
>> Edited by armynick on Saturday 28th December 17:40
As for the other company not paying out due to me not informing my insurance company, I believe that they can only do that if the mods were a contributing factor to the cause of the accident , or the car was in an un-worthy state which would've led to a MOT failure.
You could argue that when people change the brand of tyre or brake pad, they have carried out non-standard mods. I would argue the case that the up-rated brakes prevented the accident from being worse and that the up-rated suspension made the car safer on the road.
(I remember this happening to a biker!)
At the end of the day, their client caused a dangerous crash. She has no leg to stand on and I believe the old bill are prosecuting her. (She's also stone deaf) As I was not doing anything illegal and all my docs were in order, they'd better pay up ! Or elase..
>> Edited by armynick on Saturday 28th December 17:40
Moral of the story, don't modify your car unless you feel you really really have to, and then make sure you tell your insurance company. You never get the cost of the upgrades back when you sell anyway
Talking about insurance companies, this will amuse you all-
A friend of mine had a guitar shop. One day, somebody came in and pinched one of the guitars, ran away and wasn't caught. The guitar was worth about £100 wholesale. My friend claims on his insurance. He has insurance for £20,000 worth of stock so he's OK. The assessors come and value his stock. They reckon about £40,000. Result, they pay £50. Their reason, he was choosing to take 50% of the risk himself, so they only paid out 50%. Clever, eh?
John
Talking about insurance companies, this will amuse you all-
A friend of mine had a guitar shop. One day, somebody came in and pinched one of the guitars, ran away and wasn't caught. The guitar was worth about £100 wholesale. My friend claims on his insurance. He has insurance for £20,000 worth of stock so he's OK. The assessors come and value his stock. They reckon about £40,000. Result, they pay £50. Their reason, he was choosing to take 50% of the risk himself, so they only paid out 50%. Clever, eh?
John
loaf said:
shadowninja said: hmm you are supposed to notify your insurance company of ANY modifications.
out of interest if they are gonna pay book value for a car anyway what would happen if you state your car is say £1000 when its worth £3000... your premium would be less and you'd get book value anyway? would this work?
Not really - this sort of value would not figure in most premium calculations as it's fairly immaterial - car value is not really a factor until you get up past £12-£15K in most standard policies. Why? I hear you *snip*
i got the idea 1/4 of the way through
thing is when you tell them its an M reg chimaera why do they then ask for the value? they might as well ask what the weather is, then.
armynick said I was not doing anything illegal and all my docs were in order, they'd better pay up ! Or elase..
I'm afraid if you havn't told the insurance company about all your mods especially the alloys and brakes then you may well be very wrong.
The insurance company have revoked insurance for these mods before and if you don't keep your head down may do so in your case.
Be warned and be careful, I'm not saying its fair, its just the way it is.
armynick said: noted, loaf. But aren't they also legaly liable to make good any loss occured by me, as their client is at fault and they have taken on responsibility for the clients actions.
Insurance (in the case of motor insurance) is there to put you back in the same financial position as you were in before the loss. Hence the 'market value' bit. You'll get paid what your car was worth on the open market, the day it was written off. You're not covered for sentimental value cos it can't be quantified - it's what the car is worth to a punter, not you. They are also liable for any losses you've suffered with respect to injury, loss of earnings etc. but that's about it. they are not obliged to find you a car the same as teh one you've lost, just to give you what it was worth in coin of the realm...
If not, the law is wrong, and maybe i would have to go through a civil action to regain my loses? I shouldn't have to though as this is what insurance companies are there for.
Can you detail what exactly you've lost, and I'll try to shed a bit of light. won't be until late next week though as I'm off from work until 2 Jan
Thanks, I'll keep you posted.
With regards to the mods, the car came with alloys as standard, a different make , but alloys are alloys. I have also seen Mk2 Golfs with factory fited leather too. Thinking back, I think I did inform the insurance company about the leather.
The brake discs were badly worn and had to be replaced, so would they have preffered me to ride around in a car that wouldn't stop? Do people inform their insurance if they use different oil or tyres? Let's get real people, I'm not talking about chipping or bolting on gold plated turbo kits here.
I think common sense would prevail in a court of law. But I don't think it would come to that. When I crashed my bike a few years back, the assesser didn't care about the mods I had on.
With regards to the mods, the car came with alloys as standard, a different make , but alloys are alloys. I have also seen Mk2 Golfs with factory fited leather too. Thinking back, I think I did inform the insurance company about the leather.
The brake discs were badly worn and had to be replaced, so would they have preffered me to ride around in a car that wouldn't stop? Do people inform their insurance if they use different oil or tyres? Let's get real people, I'm not talking about chipping or bolting on gold plated turbo kits here.
I think common sense would prevail in a court of law. But I don't think it would come to that. When I crashed my bike a few years back, the assesser didn't care about the mods I had on.
The mods are neither here nor there as you are not claiming from your own policy, so it's a moot point.
Note that you are not obliged even to pass on insurance details to a third party after an accident - you are only obliged to give your own name and address and the name and address of the car's owner, if different. A police constable may require you to produce your certificate of insurance, but Joe Public can't.
Note that you are not obliged even to pass on insurance details to a third party after an accident - you are only obliged to give your own name and address and the name and address of the car's owner, if different. A police constable may require you to produce your certificate of insurance, but Joe Public can't.
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