Does anybody else find this sick?
Discussion
Artist Eats Baby
Tue Dec 31,10:09 AM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - A British television station defended a show in which a Chinese performance artist apparently eats a dead baby, calling it a "thought-provoking film about extreme art in China."
Channel 4, which upset viewers with a dissection of a human corpse last month, plans to air the documentary in which artist Zhu Yu shows off photographs of himself washing a dead stillborn baby in a sink and putting its dismembered parts in his mouth.
Politicians and media critics have condemned the plans but the Broadcasting Standards Commission said it could not address a program before it was shown.
In a preview provided to Reuters, Zhu is also shown having a piece of his own body grafted onto a pig. He describes his work as expressing his Christian faith, saying: "Jesus is always related to death, blood, wounds, etc."
The show's presenter, a Sunday Times newspaper art critic, calls the work "suffering for your art on a messianic scale."
He added: "I expected to be horrified by him, but I found him peaceful, monastic and even charming. When the cameras were switched off he admitted he'd vomited twice before going through his baby performance. But it was crucial to do it, so he forced himself."
The presenter, who interviews the artist in his apartment, calls him "China's most notorious contemporary cannibal," and says he actually ate the baby's flesh.
A spokesman for Channel 4 said the program, which airs on Thursday at 11 p.m., will carry warnings that viewers may be alarmed and noted the hour complies with rules banning material unsuitable for children before 9 p.m.
"The images appear in the context of an intelligent and thought-provoking film about extreme art in China," he said.
Tue Dec 31,10:09 AM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - A British television station defended a show in which a Chinese performance artist apparently eats a dead baby, calling it a "thought-provoking film about extreme art in China."
Channel 4, which upset viewers with a dissection of a human corpse last month, plans to air the documentary in which artist Zhu Yu shows off photographs of himself washing a dead stillborn baby in a sink and putting its dismembered parts in his mouth.
Politicians and media critics have condemned the plans but the Broadcasting Standards Commission said it could not address a program before it was shown.
In a preview provided to Reuters, Zhu is also shown having a piece of his own body grafted onto a pig. He describes his work as expressing his Christian faith, saying: "Jesus is always related to death, blood, wounds, etc."
The show's presenter, a Sunday Times newspaper art critic, calls the work "suffering for your art on a messianic scale."
He added: "I expected to be horrified by him, but I found him peaceful, monastic and even charming. When the cameras were switched off he admitted he'd vomited twice before going through his baby performance. But it was crucial to do it, so he forced himself."
The presenter, who interviews the artist in his apartment, calls him "China's most notorious contemporary cannibal," and says he actually ate the baby's flesh.
A spokesman for Channel 4 said the program, which airs on Thursday at 11 p.m., will carry warnings that viewers may be alarmed and noted the hour complies with rules banning material unsuitable for children before 9 p.m.
"The images appear in the context of an intelligent and thought-provoking film about extreme art in China," he said.
Well my usual approach is to say I won't pass comment until I've seen it, when I'll be better placed to judge. But I think the more acceptable alternative for me in this case will be to vote with my finger and not watch it.
The world seems to have become so 'inclusive' and permissive that we have lost touch with basic morality. *Art* is not a sufficient excuse (IMHO) for the abuse of children, dead or alive.
The world seems to have become so 'inclusive' and permissive that we have lost touch with basic morality. *Art* is not a sufficient excuse (IMHO) for the abuse of children, dead or alive.
Although I never went to see this exhibition, a friend of mine did and took his kids when it was on in east London recently. He said he expected it to be gruesome, as portrayed by the media, but it was, in fact, highly educational and was quite tasteful in it's presentation. I'm sorry now that I never had the time to see for myself.
mungo said: There is also a guy (can't remember his name) that uses dead people as "art". Saw a documentary a while ago... they apparently give him permission to do this after they have died and in their eyes, gives them a sense of immortality that their body will be a permanent "art" showcase. He has quite a horrific gallery but is no where near as sick as what Mrs Fish has described above.
I read the story about the Chinese cannibal on Tuesday and it made me feel ill then. It still does now. There are some things that fall so far below the standards of human decency that calling them 'art' is an insult to the art world in general. Suffice to say, I won't be watching the programme.
Hmmm Channel 4 - Shockumentary perhaps. They've lost their old "interesting" tag by playing episodes of friend 24 hours a day is this how they are trying to redress the balance?
I think its horrific that something like this will be shown EVER let alone on prime time national TV.
If someone can tell me how eating a dead child is ART I'd be impressed - its just being Controversial for the sake of it - it furthers no one other than the artist.
Sick.
I think its horrific that something like this will be shown EVER let alone on prime time national TV.
If someone can tell me how eating a dead child is ART I'd be impressed - its just being Controversial for the sake of it - it furthers no one other than the artist.
Sick.
I don't. And I find it extremely hypocritical that it is apparantly legal to show this sort of thing under an 'art' smokescreen, especially on a main terrestrial channel when it is illegal to show other things, even on pay-per-view cable and satellite channels.
Mrs Fish said: On another note, does anyone agree with Channel 4 showing this documentary??
Yuck!
Does anyone know why C4 are showing this - they usually find some form of justification
.
I think that if they really have to shock to get ratings now though - showing porn would appear to more peoples voyeristic nature than this - but it would (quite rightly?) produce outcry (supposed to indicate that there is no public demand for this). I'm all for freedom of expression etc - and would usually suggest that people vote with their fingers, but C4 have a responsibility to all that can receive their broadcasts - this could be very disturbing for the 10 year old watching unsupervised. This is not pushing the boundaries, it is just being sick for the sake of it.
Translated to say, no Big M - I don't think that they should show it!
Does anyone know why C4 are showing this - they usually find some form of justification
. I think that if they really have to shock to get ratings now though - showing porn would appear to more peoples voyeristic nature than this - but it would (quite rightly?) produce outcry (supposed to indicate that there is no public demand for this). I'm all for freedom of expression etc - and would usually suggest that people vote with their fingers, but C4 have a responsibility to all that can receive their broadcasts - this could be very disturbing for the 10 year old watching unsupervised. This is not pushing the boundaries, it is just being sick for the sake of it.
Translated to say, no Big M - I don't think that they should show it!
Mrs Fish said: On another note, does anyone agree with Channel 4 showing this documentary??
Personally I vehemently disagree with this sort of thing being broadcast - I can't imagine what the target audience is. I suppose the argument would be that it's not a public service but a commercial organisation, and so the public interest is not an issue. I wonder by which mechanism films showing penetrative sex or snuff movies can be banned from TV (where's CZ when you need him?). Shouldn't the same rules stop things like this getting through the net?
rude girl said:I wonder by which mechanism films showing penetrative sex or snuff movies can be banned from TV (where's CZ when you need him?). Shouldn't the same rules stop things like this getting through the net?
You might find this to be interesting The Broadcasting Act 1990
Edited to put in correct URL - doh!
>> Edited by Terminator on Thursday 2nd January 12:57
you rang?
rude girl said: (where's CZ when you need him?).
The UK has always had much more prudish taste and decency laws than the rest of Europe. Hence they can watch hardcore porn on public TV while we're watching Police Camera Moron 9 - a lot to do with the very different social & art histories in different parts of Europe. Probably traceable back to the varied effects of the enlightenment & the social & moral frameworks which have evolved since. There are myriad differences in the fundaments of society between the UK and the rest of Europe which stand to be washed away with the Constitution, the EU Arrest Warrant and the Euro.
All that aside, this is an enormously complex issue but one which, if I'm being honest, I have no strong opinion on yet... as if by magic though, you'll probably see one formed before your very eyes..
Here are a few ponderables..
What was the artist's motivation for doing this?
Don't know until I see the thing - which I probably won't do.
China is a hugely different culture from anything in the west. Humanity, mortality, spirituality, sexuality - most aspects of the human condition in fact - are conceptually completely different in China from what we accept as normal here.
I expect it will be hugely difficult, therefore, for us to understand the artist's motivations and all too easy to scream stuff about him being sick, attention seeking, heretic, psycho etc..
What is Channel4's motivation in showing this?
Well, shock value for one.... pretty much can't dismiss that. Viewing figures? I really don't know but I'd guess that what'll happen is more people don't watch it and yet complain than actually watch it.
It puts their decisions regarding the 'paedophilia' edition of Brass Eye into a new light though..
I believe it's quite possible for the ITC to withdraw Channel4's broadcasting license for a breach of it's terms of this magnitude..
Some people and organisations raison d'etre is simply to sail as close to the wind as they can.
Can this 'act' be differentiated from child abuse?
If you take the pro-life view, probably not, but I don't concur with pro-life ideas & since the foetus was still born, it was never a conscious, breathing independent human being. Might as well be a side of pork in respect of it's humanity which was sadly never to be.
--
Clearly, many will be moved one way or another by this. I see no public interest value in it whatsoever. That said, it's merely a logical extension of something like Bizarre magazine onto the TV.
I agree with RudeGirl regarding this being a worthwhile point at which to mention the dangers of unmoderated permissive atitudes destroying our society's moral fabric.
And if we can be allowed to watch this, I really see no reason why I am unable to watch proper porn on TV here like I can in France & Germany. I believe that will change in the next 5-10 years...
Edited because my preview window isn't working & my typing is shite..
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Thursday 2nd January 13:28
When I first read this my first reaction was to be shocked and disgusted, and that really means something because it takes a lot to shock and disgust me.
I still think what he is doing is disgusting.
Of course a few nice, big, words on anything can turn the lunitic into an artist.
However I will reserve judgement on the actual programme and channel 4 until after I have seen it (if I choose to watch it) basically because it will come down to which angle channel 4 take this from, if it is a documentry about a lunitic who eats foetus's in the name of art then fair enough, however if it is a show showing him eat the foetus, in the same vein as the autopsy (which FYI I didn't object to), then I think it is very wrong.
I still think what he is doing is disgusting.
Of course a few nice, big, words on anything can turn the lunitic into an artist.
However I will reserve judgement on the actual programme and channel 4 until after I have seen it (if I choose to watch it) basically because it will come down to which angle channel 4 take this from, if it is a documentry about a lunitic who eats foetus's in the name of art then fair enough, however if it is a show showing him eat the foetus, in the same vein as the autopsy (which FYI I didn't object to), then I think it is very wrong.
This guy is obviously some kind of demented pervert.
Channel 4 showing this kind of bullshit need their broadcast licence revoking.
Has anyone else noticed that "modern art" requies FCUK ALL skills?
Chuck some paint up the wall, thats art!
Shite in your bed and spread it around some...thats art!
Pathetic pedantic nonsense is what it really is.
These "artists" have got no artistic ability whatsoever.
Hell, i could do better! Me farting in the tub is more artistic.
As for the dead baby eater, try my switch on his act.
Feed him to a lion, watch all the pretty blood and guts come out, hey thats art!
And yes it is SICK!!!!
Channel 4 showing this kind of bullshit need their broadcast licence revoking.
Has anyone else noticed that "modern art" requies FCUK ALL skills?
Chuck some paint up the wall, thats art!
Shite in your bed and spread it around some...thats art!
Pathetic pedantic nonsense is what it really is.
These "artists" have got no artistic ability whatsoever.
Hell, i could do better! Me farting in the tub is more artistic.
As for the dead baby eater, try my switch on his act.
Feed him to a lion, watch all the pretty blood and guts come out, hey thats art!
And yes it is SICK!!!!
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