advice please from PH Business owners
Discussion
Right here goes, just got my 2003 Yellow Pages delivered and had a quick flick through to see my ad and check out the competitors
The dozy FCUKWITS have got a blatantly obvious spelling error in the Ad - AAARRRGGGHH! ive spotted it so has on of my competitors
just had a snidey phone call from one. I was expecting a couple of calls from 'others' to bitch about a nice footnote I had added to this years advert (which I did get) then a snidey comment about being illiterate followed
Ive spotted it, a competitor (not really much competition) has spotted it, potential Clients are sure to spot it
Its cost me £5k for the advert (havent paid them yet) - Do I tell them to FO or get on the phone ranting at customer services?????
Tradition in such circumstances is that they print a correction for you at no charge...given that the Yellow Pages may not be able to do that they should at least substantially reduce the price.
Personally - my negotiating standpoint would be
a) Issue a Correction ... oh dear you can't/won't
b) I'm not paying for an incorrect ad
Personally - my negotiating standpoint would be
a) Issue a Correction ... oh dear you can't/won't
b) I'm not paying for an incorrect ad
Been on the phone to Customer Services what a joke
Had a good rant at them
Thay will pass my concerns on to their complaints department
however it is currently taking up to 2 weeks for them to get back to the customer - CUE THE "No sh1t comment from me" I told them that I wasnt paying for the Ad and got told that they would put a 'hold' on the payment plan.
Payment Plan???? HeHe signed a direct debit I remember now!
Tell customer services that I'm cancelling it then!
Get told that I don't need to cancel it, they will put a hold on it at their end. MY Ar5e!!!!
Phone the bank Manager, request that he puts a stop on it today, Cue Bank Manager informing me that first payment went through yesterday - B0ll0cks!
D/D is now stopped - any ideas if I can get the first payment back???
If a d/d has been taken in error or the service not delivered then your bank will be able to get you a refund. Phone your bank, explain the situation and with any luck they'll refund it straight away.
I had a problem with a cancelled gym membership where they went on charging for several months. The bank refunded the whole lot the day I called.
Good luck, what a useless bunch of tw@ts !
I had a problem with a cancelled gym membership where they went on charging for several months. The bank refunded the whole lot the day I called.
Good luck, what a useless bunch of tw@ts !
Not convinced about the direct debit refund.
Because I am a complete fcukwit I managed to pay the AA for membership I had forgotten I had. For 14 years. I finally noticed the money going out, and asked for a refund. Nothing doing.
According to the D/D "rules", any changes to the direct debit (for example the amount deducted) must be communicated to the client, otherwise the debit is not allowed. The AA had contact details for me that were 12 years out of date, and had patently been unable to contact me to notify me of the changes. This being the case they were obliged to cancel the direct debit -IMHO. But they did not. When I tackled them they refunded the most recent direct debit (the one I had noticed) but refused point blank to refund the previous 12 years which they has not been entitled to take.
Being the careless and forgetful type I am now very wary of signing any direct debit - far too similar to a blank signed cheque for my liking.
Because I am a complete fcukwit I managed to pay the AA for membership I had forgotten I had. For 14 years. I finally noticed the money going out, and asked for a refund. Nothing doing.
According to the D/D "rules", any changes to the direct debit (for example the amount deducted) must be communicated to the client, otherwise the debit is not allowed. The AA had contact details for me that were 12 years out of date, and had patently been unable to contact me to notify me of the changes. This being the case they were obliged to cancel the direct debit -IMHO. But they did not. When I tackled them they refunded the most recent direct debit (the one I had noticed) but refused point blank to refund the previous 12 years which they has not been entitled to take.
Being the careless and forgetful type I am now very wary of signing any direct debit - far too similar to a blank signed cheque for my liking.
Not the direct debit bit, but the dispute with Yellow Pages- if it went to court then most likely it would be decided that you had received a proportion of what you were contracted to pay for, and then you would be ordered to pay that proportion. As neither you nor YP would want it to go to court then presumably you could negotiate something between you. I would wait fro them to make the first offer. If the spelling mistake was bad enough then perhaps you should be thinking about half price?
John
John
Had a similar problem with More O Ferrel. DD went through, but as it only happened a day ago, the bank reversed it immediately and cancelled the DD. Contact your bank in writing to cancel it asap. Use fax and follow with letter.
Yellow pages did same to a friend of mine, add was reduced from 900 to 300, and it was simply a small spelling error. I assume you never signed a proof sheet that they send out to you?
Under the circumstances, you should push not to pay anything at all, but it may come down to a very reduced rate (i.e. 5000 down to 2000/1000 or even less, i.e. how longs a piece of string) it depends on how bad the error is (you never clarified the severity of error).
Good luck whatever you do, but rest assured that Yellow Pages collection department are even slower than their customer services. It would take them probably about a year to follow up such a thing. Don't pay a penny though until it is agreed in writing what the settlement will be. Depending on extent of error, push for zero payment. Perhaps even claim damages?
Unlikely even though a you should be able, but read their T&C. At least throw it at them though.
Yellow pages did same to a friend of mine, add was reduced from 900 to 300, and it was simply a small spelling error. I assume you never signed a proof sheet that they send out to you?
Under the circumstances, you should push not to pay anything at all, but it may come down to a very reduced rate (i.e. 5000 down to 2000/1000 or even less, i.e. how longs a piece of string) it depends on how bad the error is (you never clarified the severity of error).
Good luck whatever you do, but rest assured that Yellow Pages collection department are even slower than their customer services. It would take them probably about a year to follow up such a thing. Don't pay a penny though until it is agreed in writing what the settlement will be. Depending on extent of error, push for zero payment. Perhaps even claim damages?
Unlikely even though a you should be able, but read their T&C. At least throw it at them though.
aprisa said: At a cost of 5k I am suprised they didn't get an approval from you for a proof?
Nick
When I first placed this years Ad I told them "i want the same Ad as last year" and got a proof back about a month later.
had a look at the proof and it was fine, consultations with Business Partner and rumours that there was gonna be a lot of 'fresh / new' competition this year and we decided to Pee them off big style with a witty innovative, eyecatching, get the brain ticking footnote at the bottom of or ad. I set to work and re-designed the Ad, phoned the sales Rep and told her that I wanted to make changes and get told not a problem just send a copy of new ad to them with the copy of proof scribbled out and write 'Please refer to new/enclosed'
Job done! get a copy of proof back and I spot the spelling mistake and check my original, Ive spelt it right! fax them straight away with spelling mistake highligted.
That should sort it
Got a letter from them last week, which threw me a bit
Thank you for your recent communication regarding amendments to your advertising.....
Unfortunately, I'm afraid the final dte to request alterations has now passed.
Just noticed that on the proof where I spotted the mistake on page 2 where it tells me the Directory Name, Classification Heading etc it has got IN SMALL PRINT
This advert has now been sent for publication and there is no further opportunity for amendment.
So I wasted my time proof reading it
Hate to do this to you but there are some very important question which you do not answer in the posting. 
Have you read the contract between you and BT what liability does BT accept for mistakes and errors? if they except no liability you are stuffed.
If they do not exclude liability you can then look at how the spelling mistake got into the advert, 1) if you provided them with written copy including the spelling mistake, it is likely you will be liable for the bill, 2) if you agreed wording over the phone did they then send you a draft for approval and did that draft include the spelling mistake, if this happened then you would have some additional liability, 3) is the mistake due competely to BT.
In 2 and 3 the amount of the liability would depend on the how much the value of the advert to your company is effected by the spelling mistake.
You could argue the mistake was so important the advert has no value, you might even argue it had a negative value. Although the contact may limit damages to the cost of the advert. As I said in 2 above the calculation of usefulness is the same but you would be able to claim less since you contributed to the error.
Have you read the contract between you and BT what liability does BT accept for mistakes and errors? if they except no liability you are stuffed. If they do not exclude liability you can then look at how the spelling mistake got into the advert, 1) if you provided them with written copy including the spelling mistake, it is likely you will be liable for the bill, 2) if you agreed wording over the phone did they then send you a draft for approval and did that draft include the spelling mistake, if this happened then you would have some additional liability, 3) is the mistake due competely to BT.
In 2 and 3 the amount of the liability would depend on the how much the value of the advert to your company is effected by the spelling mistake.
You could argue the mistake was so important the advert has no value, you might even argue it had a negative value. Although the contact may limit damages to the cost of the advert. As I said in 2 above the calculation of usefulness is the same but you would be able to claim less since you contributed to the error.
tonybav said: Hate to do this to you but there are some very important question which you do not answer in the posting.
If they do not exclude liability you can then look at how the spelling mistake got into the advert, 1) if you provided them with written copy including the spelling mistake, it is likely you will be liable for the bill, 2) if you agreed wording over the phone did they then send you a draft for approval and did that draft include the spelling mistake, if this happened then you would have some additional liability, 3) is the mistake due competely to BT.
In 2 and 3 the amount of the liability would depend on the how much the value of the advert to your company to the error.
Answer 3
Checked printed copy that I made and I have spelt it right also checked copy on PC and Its right, also shows the date and time it was last modified as being prior to me posting it to them
! 
but this is in a different class altogether. Two things.
YP is not owned by BT any more (they sold it some time ago)
If the DD went through yesterday then it's not actually "in" their account. Take no c
p and demand that the bank return the money under the DD guarantee scheme. Ensure you *fax* said request to your manager as well today.
To quote (which you can do back to your manager..) from the scheme
"If an error is made by the Supplier or your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid".
Note - it says "supplier" in there!!!
The advert is wrong - therefore AFAIK the service that you have paid for is not "fit for purpose" and you are entitled to reject the advert and not pay for it. Consequently any monies taken for it are also in error, and your bank should not have an issue with getting it back for you. Again, *fax* YP saying that you reject the advert due to its errors and that you are not paying for it, and that whilst you are claiming the misspaid DD back via the bank, you in no way reliquish your right to claim back from YP.
Finally - given your business, correct grammer would be seen as an essential to you (bit like calling a plumber and electrician) and hence I feel a court would not use a "propotionate" view.
All my view of course - but when I used to run my own company I had 4 months of free adverts from the largest publisher in the world because they kept on cocking up my adverts? The above approach worked with them so I'm assuming it would with your probs.
J
>> Edited by joust on Friday 10th January 14:31
YP is not owned by BT any more (they sold it some time ago)
If the DD went through yesterday then it's not actually "in" their account. Take no c
p and demand that the bank return the money under the DD guarantee scheme. Ensure you *fax* said request to your manager as well today. To quote (which you can do back to your manager..) from the scheme
"If an error is made by the Supplier or your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid".
Note - it says "supplier" in there!!!
The advert is wrong - therefore AFAIK the service that you have paid for is not "fit for purpose" and you are entitled to reject the advert and not pay for it. Consequently any monies taken for it are also in error, and your bank should not have an issue with getting it back for you. Again, *fax* YP saying that you reject the advert due to its errors and that you are not paying for it, and that whilst you are claiming the misspaid DD back via the bank, you in no way reliquish your right to claim back from YP.
Finally - given your business, correct grammer would be seen as an essential to you (bit like calling a plumber and electrician) and hence I feel a court would not use a "propotionate" view.
All my view of course - but when I used to run my own company I had 4 months of free adverts from the largest publisher in the world because they kept on cocking up my adverts? The above approach worked with them so I'm assuming it would with your probs.
J
>> Edited by joust on Friday 10th January 14:31
You still need to read the contact Marcos, its not unknown for an advertiser to limit liability.
If they have not done so, then start by claiming damages from them for adversely effecting the image of your Company. Its always good to play hard ball at the beginning. Good settlement might be no payment for this one and a substantial discount on next years advert.
If they have not done so, then start by claiming damages from them for adversely effecting the image of your Company. Its always good to play hard ball at the beginning. Good settlement might be no payment for this one and a substantial discount on next years advert.
Agreed - a LOL will be almost certainly in there - normally capped at the maximum value of the order. However - doesn't change the fact that the advert isn't fit for purpose and so you are perfectly entitled to withold payment (and just because you have paid one installment doesn't mean that is now "theirs"...)
tonybav said: You still need to read the contact Marcos, its not unknown for an advertiser to limit liability.
Good advice
If they have not done so, then start by claiming damages from them for adversely effecting the image of your Company. Its always good to play hard ball at the beginning. Good settlement might be no payment for this one and a substantial discount on next years advert.
J
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