Say "NO" to ID cards
Discussion
According to The Register,
I would imagine that a proportion of people are like me and are dead against ID cards as an infringment of personal freedom and privacy.
The full article points you to a website that details how to get a vote in against it. If you feel the same way then vote with your fingers and get the poll looking representative rather than the Blair-engineering white-wash that it currently is.
The British public is voting enthusiastically for ID cards, claims Home Office minister and long-standing Blair bagman Lord Falconer. Or at least, the "around 1,500 people and organisations [who] have sent in their comments" to the current consultation exercise have split two to one in favour, while "450 volunteers" who're apparently being experimented on are even more pro.
I would imagine that a proportion of people are like me and are dead against ID cards as an infringment of personal freedom and privacy.
The full article points you to a website that details how to get a vote in against it. If you feel the same way then vote with your fingers and get the poll looking representative rather than the Blair-engineering white-wash that it currently is.
What personal Freedom and privacy.
Atleast if we all had ID it might cut so much crime in many areas, Fraud for one.Illegal immigrants will be caught easier,underage drinking/smoking, I could go on.
I dont agree with a card that holds to many personal details but The driving Licence size seems good.
BB
Atleast if we all had ID it might cut so much crime in many areas, Fraud for one.Illegal immigrants will be caught easier,underage drinking/smoking, I could go on.
I dont agree with a card that holds to many personal details but The driving Licence size seems good.
BB
I'm not against ID cards in principle,most countries on the continent have them.The driving licence is fairly quickly becoming an ID card,it carries pic,address etc.As for freedom and privacy i cant see it having much effect most of our details are in the public domain anyway (research companies etc)
I shouldn't worry about it, they'll never catch on because of the A3-sized "counterpart" that will have to be carried in conjunction with the ID card 
Seriously, though, I can't see the problem for law abiding folk. Yes, clearly there will be fakes in circulation but at least it is a step in the right direction towards cutting fraud and illegal malarkys.
Seriously, though, I can't see the problem for law abiding folk. Yes, clearly there will be fakes in circulation but at least it is a step in the right direction towards cutting fraud and illegal malarkys.
Please pelase please no more badly thought out laws from the useless politicians - all it does is give the lawyers ample opportunities to ramp up fees, increase compensaiton claims (usuually for criminals) - and all at the txpayers expense.
I would heartily welcome ID Cards were it not for the New Britain that New Labour has bestowed upon us - they want ID Cards as it means more overpaid bureaucracy and more power to Blunkett, his guide dog and his media advisers.
I would heartily welcome ID Cards were it not for the New Britain that New Labour has bestowed upon us - they want ID Cards as it means more overpaid bureaucracy and more power to Blunkett, his guide dog and his media advisers.
flasher said: I agree with BB, the only people who have anything to fear from ID cards are criminals, tax dodgers and illegal immigrants. And not forgetting left wing paranoid schizzos....
I don't class you in any of those categories John so what is your concern....??
Freedom in a word. Requiring a British Citizen to carry a form of Identity at all times is to revoke our most valuable freedom. Unlike almost any Nation on earth in Britain we are not accountable to the State, the roles are reversed and the State is accountable to the electorate.
This balance of power is at the cornerstone of our most basic freedoms and should be upheld at ALL costs. I have had - due to moving house - to accept a photo driving card and I refuse to carry it anywhere except to other countries. If need be I would take it to a police station at a later date. I am none of the things you have described above, and I do see your point about those issues, while they may not necessarily concern me as much as they do you, they are a great concern to many. I simply feel that we all lose out to the shitty elements in society if we have to become subject to the will of others.
The police are regularly villified on here for the things they do or don't do, and as a motorist and the vitim of burglary I am no great fan of them myself. Trouble there is that they are a better police service than exists in almost any country, that is because they are effectively prevented from overstepping their mark because their power over the population as a whole is limited. Thus their remit is to serve us as a community through the law not to impose that law on us. The point here is that if the power is transferred to the few people who already have the control we run the real risk of ruining the balance that exists between the state and the citizen which on a macro level is crucial. ID cards make that power change something real and something in every pocket. So if I had a message to government it would be "By all means deal with crooks and shonky asylum seekers, but if you want to do it buy removing my rights you can **** off" something which I am currently allowed to say.
I always carry cards with my personal details on them. Currently carry four cards with photos on them also address, DOB and signature etc. I have no problem carrying these cards as I usually need them for ID for pubs/clubs etc. Also useful for police random roadside checks just to show you are who you claim to be etc. Basically I have a need for carrying such an item, so I do. If I didn't have a need for them then I probably wouldn't bother.
I refuse to carry it anywhere except to other countries.
But why? I understand the "liberty" thing, but surely there are other good reasons for carrying some identification? How many people have died because they had no information on them showing what medication they should or should not be taking? ID cards can carry other useful data as well as simply an ID.
Why is it any different to carrying a bank debit card? It contains your personal details and banks insist these days that you produce it if you go into a branch to make a transaction, or that you produce some other form of identification.
This is not meant to just be arguing for the sake of it - I genuinely can't see the difference!
miniman said:
I refuse to carry it anywhere except to other countries.
But why? I understand the "liberty" thing, but surely there are other good reasons for carrying some identification? How many people have died because they had no information on them showing what medication they should or should not be taking? ID cards can carry other useful data as well as simply an ID.
Why is it any different to carrying a bank debit card? It contains your personal details and banks insist these days that you produce it if you go into a branch to make a transaction, or that you produce some other form of identification.
This is not meant to just be arguing for the sake of it - I genuinely can't see the difference!
It is about being required to do so. I am happy to have something that tells people that I have passed a driving test, I am happy to provide that at my convenience to proove that is the case as I am required to do by the law, but I am not prepared to have to carry something at all times that identifies me, because then my freedom is on licence.
when you go on holiday to europe do you have your passport on you at all times, if the answer is no, then you are commiting an offence in all but a few european countries, I don't want to be comitting an offence by popping out for milk in the UK, our government has not got the right to make that judgement, because that is not their purpose.
I have no problem with any voluntary scheme (I'd be a hypocrite of I did) and it is eminently sensible for people with certain needs to have that information on them, or for young people to have ID to get served or for any number of other reasons, but there is no reason why this has to be done through a universal compulsory ID card.
The balance of power in which the state has to prove who you are rather than the other way around is too important to sacrifice for anything.
>> Edited by dans on Monday 13th January 22:07
I don't want to be comitting an offence by popping out for milk in the UK,
Keep your card in your wallet which will presumably contain the money that you are going to pay for the pint of milk with...unless you plan to steal the milk in which case you wouldn't want an ID card
*Also you should buy a half litre instead of a pint
this is europe after all Dans
Sorry mate but that's the biggest load of rubbish I've read on here for ages. The police and plenty of other intelligence organisations know EXACTLY who you are, where you live and what you do. Carrying an identity card to prove who you are makes no difference to that. Do you object to having a passport? I think not. Or medical records etc.? Nothing that you wrote in that post offers any viable reason why you shouldn't have a photo ID card.And if you have done nothing wrong then you should have nothing to fear. The state of law and order in this country is nothing to do with the officers who try to enforce the law either. Many of them do a fantastic job, risking their lives every day. The Government are responsible for law and order. and the fact that this greedy hypocritical rabble we have in power now are more interested in the perpetrator than the victim and making money out of speed cameras is solely the fault of the twats who voted for them. It's not helped by the fact that the opposition are a total joke.
No disrespect intended Dan, I just don't see what reasons you have to be so annoyed about it...
>> Edited by flasher on Monday 13th January 22:28
Sorry mate but that's the biggest load of rubbish I've read on here for ages. The police and plenty of other intelligence organisations know EXACTLY who you are, where you live and what you do. Carrying an identity card to prove who you are makes no difference to that. Do you object to having a passport? I think not. Or medical records etc.? Nothing that you wrote in that post offers any viable reason why you shouldn't have a photo ID card.And if you have done nothing wrong then you should have nothing to fear. The state of law and order in this country is nothing to do with the officers who try to enforce the law either. Many of them do a fantastic job, risking their lives every day. The Government are responsible for law and order. and the fact that this greedy hypocritical rabble we have in power now are more interested in the perpetrator than the victim and making money out of speed cameras is solely the fault of the twats who voted for them. It's not helped by the fact that the opposition are a total joke.
No disrespect intended Dan, I just don't see what reasons you have to be so annoyed about it...
>> Edited by flasher on Monday 13th January 22:28
I don't want to be comitting an offence by popping out for milk in the UK
Interesting point that I hadn't considered. I have certainly "popped out" many times (well, that's the downside of tight trousers, isn't it?) without my wallet and I agree that I would be pretty pi$$ed off if that made me a criminal.
However, would it actually work this way? I haven't read the plans in detail, but are they this draconian? Are they asking that people posess an ID, or carry it at all times? Surely there would be some leeway for circumstances (tight trousers again) like the above?
Why should we have to carry the card with us? They're going to legalise police harassment for leaving your wallet at home 
Knowing the governments record on IT projects is it really going to be worth the 2 or 3 billion quid that it will probably cost, how many road improvement schemes or police officers would that pay for? What do you think would have the biggest benefit in crime reduction?
Knowing the governments record on IT projects is it really going to be worth the 2 or 3 billion quid that it will probably cost, how many road improvement schemes or police officers would that pay for? What do you think would have the biggest benefit in crime reduction?
How about a "pet passport" style idea where we are all inserted with a microchip. All the info never leave home without it! Seems like a plan to me. Think about it:
1.Never worry about forgetting your passport
2.You can 'nip out' all you want and you will have your 'card' with you
3.(And most useful)When you are drunk and can't remember your address a police officer can just scan you and order a taxi
How about it then??
>> Edited by mcecm on Monday 13th January 22:24
1.Never worry about forgetting your passport
2.You can 'nip out' all you want and you will have your 'card' with you
3.(And most useful)When you are drunk and can't remember your address a police officer can just scan you and order a taxi
How about it then??
>> Edited by mcecm on Monday 13th January 22:24
Niggle said: Why should we have to carry the card with us? They're going to legalise police harassment for leaving your wallet at home
Well, it's the law in most European countries and I don't see them rioting in the streets over it?
I know I'm repeating myself here, but please come up with a valid reason why we shouldn't have ID cards and we can have a debate. At the moment there seems to be no valid reason why we shouldn't have them, except for some, utopian idea that we are all free to roam the streets and no-one out there knows who we are. Believe me the old Bill will find exactly who you are in a very short time, if you have done something wrong at present, let alone when you have an ID card..
mcecm said: How about a "pet passport" style idea where we are all inserted with a microchip. All the info never leave home without it! Seems like a plan to me. Think about it:
1.Never worry about forgetting your passport
2.You can 'nip out' all you want and you will have your 'card' with you
3.(And most useful)When you are drunk and can't remember your address a police officer can just scan you and order a taxi
How about it then??
>> Edited by mcecm on Monday 13th January 22:24
That's not as daft as it sounds....The latest technology is going to be retina scans which show exactly who you are...to stop passport fraud and Driving Licence fraud..
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