Do computer games make better or worse drivers?
Discussion
Hiya
After lurking around for ages (and dreaming of having a nice, or even any car, one day!!) I thought I'd ask your opinion on something i was having a discussion about the other day.
A while ago I did a skid control thingy and managed to get the hang of it quite easily, whereas some of the older, more experienced, drivers there struggled a lot more than I did. I realised that a lot of the things I was being told to do were skills that i had delicately honed for many years on sega rally and games like that!
That made me wonder whether playing driving computer games can make you a better driver. I'm not trying to claim that they are a really accurate simulation of real life situations, but do they give some kind of basic knowledge of how to control a car, particularly in unusual circumstances that you generally would not experience in everyday driving?
On the other hand, do they give people a false sense of security that they could drive around a corner fast, misjudge it, hit the wall, and carry on quite happily?
Sorry, for the slightly dull post, but i was just wondering what other peoples opinions were on it. I need a good excuse to play GT3, because that's as close as i'll get to driving a car i can dream of for a good few years!
Sam
After lurking around for ages (and dreaming of having a nice, or even any car, one day!!) I thought I'd ask your opinion on something i was having a discussion about the other day.
A while ago I did a skid control thingy and managed to get the hang of it quite easily, whereas some of the older, more experienced, drivers there struggled a lot more than I did. I realised that a lot of the things I was being told to do were skills that i had delicately honed for many years on sega rally and games like that!
That made me wonder whether playing driving computer games can make you a better driver. I'm not trying to claim that they are a really accurate simulation of real life situations, but do they give some kind of basic knowledge of how to control a car, particularly in unusual circumstances that you generally would not experience in everyday driving?
On the other hand, do they give people a false sense of security that they could drive around a corner fast, misjudge it, hit the wall, and carry on quite happily?
Sorry, for the slightly dull post, but i was just wondering what other peoples opinions were on it. I need a good excuse to play GT3, because that's as close as i'll get to driving a car i can dream of for a good few years!
Sam
Just remember that there is no "reset" button in life 
You may be able to learn automotive information from such games (for instance I have learned a lot about Rally driving by playing Rallisport Challenge) but just realize that practical application of that knowledge CANNOT be learned in cyberspace.
To gain practical experience I would recommend a driving school or course. Not living in the UK, I don't know which to recommend but a lot of PHers can point you in the right direction.
Just remember, you can gain knowledge from games, but you must gain experience from real life and not cyberlife.
IMHO
ErnestM
You may be able to learn automotive information from such games (for instance I have learned a lot about Rally driving by playing Rallisport Challenge) but just realize that practical application of that knowledge CANNOT be learned in cyberspace.
To gain practical experience I would recommend a driving school or course. Not living in the UK, I don't know which to recommend but a lot of PHers can point you in the right direction.
Just remember, you can gain knowledge from games, but you must gain experience from real life and not cyberlife.
IMHO
ErnestM
Just wanted to add that i was in so way suggesting that by playing computer games i could become a great driver in the real world (although i like to try and convince myself that i could actually beat schumacher around a track!). What i was more leading to was do you think that with the youth of today (i'm sounding like such a boring old man!) playing a lot more and more realistic games than people were 15 years ago, would that make new drivers in general better equipped to deal with unexpected situations than an average older driver, or would it simply make them forget that when you crash it hurts?
I fully agree with the thing about life not having a reset button, but more importantly about the fact that they are just fun!!
sam
I fully agree with the thing about life not having a reset button, but more importantly about the fact that they are just fun!!
sam
Coming from the gran turismo generation myself I think computer games can teach you the basics i.e how to correct over/under steer, racing line etc.
As said before it can also be valuble in learning the layout of tracks, some games are so realistic in this sense.
I suppose it really depends on the game. Micro Machine does not offer the level of simulation that Grand Prix Legends or the like offer!
As said before it can also be valuble in learning the layout of tracks, some games are so realistic in this sense.
I suppose it really depends on the game. Micro Machine does not offer the level of simulation that Grand Prix Legends or the like offer!
TheLemming said: IMHO computer games do have a value, although im not sure that it relates much to driving on the road.
Ive learnt tracks before attending a track day on PC games, being able to practise beforehand does make a big difference in the learning curve of a new circuit.
Prior to driving the Silverstone GP circuit on a PCGB track day for the first time I put in hundreds of practice laps on F1 2002.
The game did absolutely nothing for understanding car control I have to say. Even a Force Feedback wheel is NOTHING like holding onto the wheel of a car experiencing oversteer or understeer at speed.
BUT the layout of the track - yes - for learning where the track went I thought the game was brilliant. I have been searching for any game/simulation at all that has all the circuits listed in the UK Circuit Guide so I can practice their layout before arriving at the track.
So. To sum up. Simulation software when good enough is excellent for learning track layout. Personally I reckon its sod all good for anything else - other than having a good time. And what's so bad in that? Nothing.
Have you tried GPL Don? I think that has more of a feel of real driving. Certainly when I picked up my Porsche it felt a LOT more like driving GPL than my Peugeot 
No comparison really I know, but some sims just feel more realistic than others - specially GPL with its slippery cross-ply tyres and excellent force feedback - I also have a manual H-pattern gear shifter which adds a lot to the immersion 
No comparison really I know, but some sims just feel more realistic than others - specially GPL with its slippery cross-ply tyres and excellent force feedback - I also have a manual H-pattern gear shifter which adds a lot to the immersion I found Gran Turismo and friends (ie simulations not arcade racing games) very useful for understanding understeer and oversteer. I know that if I didn't play GT before buying my TVR I would have written it off by now.
I also play GT the night before doing a trackday just to "revise" driving/managing the car beyond the limit of grip, as you can't really do that on public roads. (Note that I do not use GT to excel at racing/competing as that is not the point of track days.)
It also means that correctly controlling the car beyond the limit is a natural instinct for me, and not a "brown trouser" moment. (In fact, I've noticed that mid-slide everything seems really calm... anyone else noticed that?)
So if being able to understand how a car behaves and the way you control it becoming instinctive is good driving then the answer is "they do make better drivers".
I also play GT the night before doing a trackday just to "revise" driving/managing the car beyond the limit of grip, as you can't really do that on public roads. (Note that I do not use GT to excel at racing/competing as that is not the point of track days.)
It also means that correctly controlling the car beyond the limit is a natural instinct for me, and not a "brown trouser" moment. (In fact, I've noticed that mid-slide everything seems really calm... anyone else noticed that?)
So if being able to understand how a car behaves and the way you control it becoming instinctive is good driving then the answer is "they do make better drivers".
Years ago, I never understood all this "turn into the slide" stuff. But recently driving at Castle Combe and at a karting session, I kind of instinctively knew how to control a slide. I'm convinced that proper simulation games like Gran Turismo and its sequels have helped learn this kind of skill.
I agree that it's a thin line between learning skills and learning that you can bounce off cars and walls and pedestrians, though!
I agree that it's a thin line between learning skills and learning that you can bounce off cars and walls and pedestrians, though!
AJLintern said: Have you tried GPL Don? I think that has more of a feel of real driving. Certainly when I picked up my Porsche it felt a LOT more like driving GPL than my Peugeot
GPL - a true classic!
Where did you get the H-shifter from? Does it work well then? I had thought of gettingone but never got round to it.
for learning tracks.. TOCA Race Driver is pretty good, it has loads of tracks, from the A1 ring, to Brands, to Knockhill..
I don't think you can "learn to drive" from games, although I think there is some kind of benefit there.. not really sure what though.
There's also the BIG problem of adjusting back to real-world after mowing down the cops in Vice City!!!
I don't think you can "learn to drive" from games, although I think there is some kind of benefit there.. not really sure what though.
There's also the BIG problem of adjusting back to real-world after mowing down the cops in Vice City!!!
robp said:
GPL - a true classic!
Where did you get the H-shifter from? Does it work well then? I had thought of gettingone but never got round to it.
I got it from Act Labs . It works really well, specially with a 3 pedal system like the Speed7 pedals from BRD You can learn to heel & toe with them.
I've only got 2 pedals, but as long as you have set them up as split axis, you can blip the throttle on downchanges while braking
Either that or you will spin off backwards due to the engine braking unbalancing the car and locking the rear wheels 
Depends on the Game IMO.
Games like GT1,2,3 Project Gotham, and other where the physics model actually recreates how cars handle on the road in varying conditions (and does it well) helps you learn the Theory behind powerslides, skid control, dohnuts etc, actually doing this in real life takes years of practice to be able to 'feel' what the car is doing. A quick push with the thumb in the right direction won't help you on the road when it all goes tits up!
For instance. I recently went karting, 16 laps of a short technical circuit. Most that went weren't drivers, only two of us were. Most average laps came in around 15/16 mph, mine came in a 21mph. IMO this was because I know the theory of sliding round corners, that fethering a throttle when your tail it sticking out keeps it there, and that either a)lifting off or b) burying the throttle will put you into a spin or the barrier.
Computer games help you to learn and practice the theory of these things in an evironment where you won't kill or injure yourself or somebody else, or break anything. But they don't give you experience of doing them for yourself.
Games like GT1,2,3 Project Gotham, and other where the physics model actually recreates how cars handle on the road in varying conditions (and does it well) helps you learn the Theory behind powerslides, skid control, dohnuts etc, actually doing this in real life takes years of practice to be able to 'feel' what the car is doing. A quick push with the thumb in the right direction won't help you on the road when it all goes tits up!
For instance. I recently went karting, 16 laps of a short technical circuit. Most that went weren't drivers, only two of us were. Most average laps came in around 15/16 mph, mine came in a 21mph. IMO this was because I know the theory of sliding round corners, that fethering a throttle when your tail it sticking out keeps it there, and that either a)lifting off or b) burying the throttle will put you into a spin or the barrier.
Computer games help you to learn and practice the theory of these things in an evironment where you won't kill or injure yourself or somebody else, or break anything. But they don't give you experience of doing them for yourself.
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