Definition of a supercar
Discussion
When I was a lad a supercar seemed to be anything that got close to 5 seconds for the 0-60 sprint. In those days anything that could do a time like was a sports car so it invariably looked good as well.
Nowadays the supercar tag seems to be thrown around a bit too much. I've seen an Elise called a supercar; I've got one and love it but it's definately not a supercar. Plenty of saloons that have been fettled would also claim supercar status on the old definition. So we need a modern day definition of a supercar. I propose the following:
1) Acceleration - 0-60mph sub 5 seconds. Maybe for a supercar we should use 0-100mph sub 10seconds.
2) Top speed - greater than 180mph
3) Looks - has to look like a sports car. No four door box saloons, no hot hatchs with a rocket in the back.
So the 340R would qualify on the 1st and 3rd count but not the second. Any Mercedes or BMW saloon that has been altered by AMG or M-power would qualify on the first 2 but not the last, they don't look like sports cars.
The Noble would qualify, as would the Tuscan S.
Nowadays the supercar tag seems to be thrown around a bit too much. I've seen an Elise called a supercar; I've got one and love it but it's definately not a supercar. Plenty of saloons that have been fettled would also claim supercar status on the old definition. So we need a modern day definition of a supercar. I propose the following:
1) Acceleration - 0-60mph sub 5 seconds. Maybe for a supercar we should use 0-100mph sub 10seconds.
2) Top speed - greater than 180mph
3) Looks - has to look like a sports car. No four door box saloons, no hot hatchs with a rocket in the back.
So the 340R would qualify on the 1st and 3rd count but not the second. Any Mercedes or BMW saloon that has been altered by AMG or M-power would qualify on the first 2 but not the last, they don't look like sports cars.
The Noble would qualify, as would the Tuscan S.
Small point is the Noble is limited to 165 - I have no idea what it would do if unleashed
The Noble would qualify, as would the Tuscan S.
For me the definition is something similar than just raw figures.
A Supercar is one that significantly raises the game over everything that *is around at the time* (within the metrics of price vs performance).
In that sense an Elise is a supercar - namely for it's handling and construction techniques. A Enzo for it's CF brakes, a F50 for the movement of F1 technology to the road, a Lambo Muchi for the significant quality and "comfort" leap (not to mention the crushing performance) etc.
Raw speed isn't everything, driver control and feedback and useable performance is key for me.
J
In general terms I agree with you that an up-to-date definition is needed but I fear there'll be 100 different definitions proposed.
To quote the car terms dictionary, "A supercar is generally a car that does one or several things quite well, usually in speed and/or acceleration."
To my mind there is also a cost element associated with the term Supercar. The Noble wouldn't qualify under your terms as it's quoted at 160 top speed by Autocar and Noble are happy to quote this on their site. The Tuscan S fits the bill ....... just. Why not AMG etc ? The AMG Merc SL 500 looks like a sports car to me and it certainly has the performance.
I'd go along with your definitions but also add a minimum cost of £80,000 .... so the Tuscan S is now out! Ferrari, Lambo, De Tomaso, Zonda, Porkers (top of range), Aston, Jag 220 etc
I like to think of my Chimaera as a supercar, but it doesn't quite match up to the 0-100 time and top speed!! I know it'll eat up a hairdresser car (hello all u MGF, MX5, elise and MR2 owners!! 
) but meets it's match with a 360 modena.
So does it mean it's a sports car? Well that puts me alongside Gti's and Impreza's, and Evos.
Maybe time for a new catagory!!!
) but meets it's match with a 360 modena. So does it mean it's a sports car? Well that puts me alongside Gti's and Impreza's, and Evos.
Maybe time for a new catagory!!!
Tricky one but perhaps the formerly questionably hirsute opiner known for being a decent Top Gear presenter's definition best decribes the breed :
"It must look good enough to snap knicker elastic at fifty paces."
A little passe, perhaps but decent performance is taken as read - any supercar has to have a certain aesthetic treatment that makes you double take, IMHO.
For me, the Lamborghini Diablo - representing the zenith of the concept...
"It must look good enough to snap knicker elastic at fifty paces."
A little passe, perhaps but decent performance is taken as read - any supercar has to have a certain aesthetic treatment that makes you double take, IMHO.
For me, the Lamborghini Diablo - representing the zenith of the concept...
derestrictor said: A little passe, perhaps but decent performance is taken as read - any supercar has to have a certain aesthetic treatment that makes you double take, IMHO.
Well said, i agree with Williamp too.
I think a supercar is a matter of personal opinion. I think my car is a supercar (and dreamt of getting one for 5 years). Others may not agree.
But if it makes little kids drop their lollys and shout "look daddy", turns heads, makes people drop their windows to hear it go by, provokes stangers to walk up to me and talk about it, and gets my girlfriends sister to make a pass at me!! then it gets my vote as a supercar!!
>> Edited by dannyboyo on Saturday 25th January 10:01
Dan - exquisite motor - I love it; Manek obviously knew his onions - and what a (relative) bargain!
The colour is just SO classy; the mods sound fascinating and well, I just hope you can regale me with some of your Welsh mountain road adventures ASAP!
Btw, I love that mesh treatment on the front.
As they would exclaim in the less salubrious environs of the Mancunian periphery, "Oi, misto - that's
tops, that is!"
Tremendous. I do love Chimeras.
The colour is just SO classy; the mods sound fascinating and well, I just hope you can regale me with some of your Welsh mountain road adventures ASAP!
Btw, I love that mesh treatment on the front.
As they would exclaim in the less salubrious environs of the Mancunian periphery, "Oi, misto - that's
tops, that is!" Tremendous. I do love Chimeras.
derestrictor..... Thanks mate! Its is a stunning car. I'm so chuffed I found one that was looked after and luved as much as it was/is! He has put some lovely mods on it, engine souped up, bigger exhausts, afterburner rear lights, wider rear tyres, adjustable suspension etc etc.....
Sounds beautiful (especially though tunnels!), and looks the part too. Just can't wait for some dry sunny days to blast it though the windy roads. Not that the cold and wet have stopped me getting the roof off and putting my foot down!! I've done about 2700miles/£420 in petrol in 4 weeks! Can't stop drivin it!!
Sounds beautiful (especially though tunnels!), and looks the part too. Just can't wait for some dry sunny days to blast it though the windy roads. Not that the cold and wet have stopped me getting the roof off and putting my foot down!! I've done about 2700miles/£420 in petrol in 4 weeks! Can't stop drivin it!!
Well, you're certainly in the right geographic area to get the very best out of the beastie, no messing.
The joy with the Chimera is it's all round ability; 0-60 in under 5 seconds, top whack around 160-ish, combined with the option of various al fresco modes (full convertible or nifty targa arrangement [inspired design, that, btw]), relatively cavernous boot and a near perfect driving position - whether cruising along the front near Cap Ferrat or hanging onto a Skyline's tail!
And of course, that noise! As I said, exquisite.
The joy with the Chimera is it's all round ability; 0-60 in under 5 seconds, top whack around 160-ish, combined with the option of various al fresco modes (full convertible or nifty targa arrangement [inspired design, that, btw]), relatively cavernous boot and a near perfect driving position - whether cruising along the front near Cap Ferrat or hanging onto a Skyline's tail!
And of course, that noise! As I said, exquisite.
I had this discussion on the pub a while ago. The benchmark for all categories has been raised, hot hatches are sneaking into sportscar territory and sportscars are blitzing supercars of a few years ago.
After a long debate we solved the problem by putting in a new category above "supercar".
The new "ultracars" blow the supercars of yesteryear into the weeds. They are ultra fast, ultra expensive, ultra exotic and ultra exclusive. Everything a supercar used to be, but more.
So I would put the McLaren F1, Zonda S, Murcielaco, Enzo, XJ220, Jun Hyperlemon, new buggatti etc in the new category, and let everything else find its own level judged by the same standards we used to use to quantify a "supercar".
(Very subjective, but it works for me)
After a long debate we solved the problem by putting in a new category above "supercar".
The new "ultracars" blow the supercars of yesteryear into the weeds. They are ultra fast, ultra expensive, ultra exotic and ultra exclusive. Everything a supercar used to be, but more.
So I would put the McLaren F1, Zonda S, Murcielaco, Enzo, XJ220, Jun Hyperlemon, new buggatti etc in the new category, and let everything else find its own level judged by the same standards we used to use to quantify a "supercar".
(Very subjective, but it works for me)
One word: ASPIRATIONAL
Do you aspire to own a TVR Cerbera 4.5 L/W - I do, hence it's my supercar...well one of them
I appreciate a Merc E55 AMG, cor blimey performance, excellent roadholding, it's practical enough to use every day, but it seems to me to be a bit...bland?
Whatever floats your boat...I s'pose
I have also always subcribed to the Athena poster theory for Super/Ultracars, how many would they sell?
Zonda, TVR Cerbera, Lambo, Ferrari, Noble etc all look different/ rare enough for "the man in the street" to go WOW and buy one. Big fast saloons / elises / hot hatches all are available on freeview by looking down the street.
OK, I'm now ready to be shot down in flames (No Airbags or ABS to cushion the blow either!)
Do you aspire to own a TVR Cerbera 4.5 L/W - I do, hence it's my supercar...well one of them
I appreciate a Merc E55 AMG, cor blimey performance, excellent roadholding, it's practical enough to use every day, but it seems to me to be a bit...bland?
Whatever floats your boat...I s'pose
I have also always subcribed to the Athena poster theory for Super/Ultracars, how many would they sell?
Zonda, TVR Cerbera, Lambo, Ferrari, Noble etc all look different/ rare enough for "the man in the street" to go WOW and buy one. Big fast saloons / elises / hot hatches all are available on freeview by looking down the street.
OK, I'm now ready to be shot down in flames (No Airbags or ABS to cushion the blow either!)
chris.mapey said: One word: ASPIRATIONAL
Do you aspire to own a TVR Cerbera 4.5 L/W - I do, hence it's my supercar...well one of them
I appreciate a Merc E55 AMG, cor blimey performance, excellent roadholding, it's practical enough to use every day, but it seems to me to be a bit...bland?
Whatever floats your boat...I s'pose
I have also always subcribed to the Athena poster theory for Super/Ultracars, how many would they sell?
Zonda, TVR Cerbera, Lambo, Ferrari, Noble etc all look different/ rare enough for "the man in the street" to go WOW and buy one. Big fast saloons / elises / hot hatches all are available on freeview by looking down the street.
OK, I'm now ready to be shot down in flames (No Airbags or ABS to cushion the blow either!)
Makes perfect sense, its pretty much what I was saying. The Cerbera is a supercar, but its not in the same category as the F1 and Enzo etc. So if they arent supercars anymore they are something better *grin*
Anyway enough sophistry for one day.
dannyboyo said:
But if it makes little kids drop their lollys and shout "look daddy", turns heads, makes people drop their windows to hear it go by, provokes stangers to walk up to me and talk about it, and gets my girlfriends sister to make a pass at me!! then it gets my vote as a supercar!!
>>
I've had all of that (not the sister bit, but similar) and even had a guy in a 4-motion Golf hold his mobile out the window as I blasted past.
A supercar is any car that people stop, stare and point at. 'Ultracars' is a good term for those that only the silly rich can afford to own. An Ultima or Noble are supercars but cost about £50k. A Macca F1 is probably getting on towards £1m. A Zonda £300k+ etc. A new catagory is the answer.
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