Heathrow Security
Discussion
Obviously this is a difficult time. There is a high-security alert on, driven by intelligence predicting the possibility of an Al-Qaeda attack, and it's right that the army are summoned to reinforce the police.
However, is there anyone out there who thinks (as I do) that the deployment of TANKS around Heathrow, Staines and towns in Berkshire is perhaps a little over-dramatic?
I don't think Al-Qaeda have exactly got themselves fully militarised in the UK yet have they? Surely tanks will not protect anyone from either a rocket, mortar or suicide-bomber attack? Well trained and armed army personnel could easily do that surely.
What seems to me though is that what the tanks do achieve is to do a very good job of frightening the bejeezus out of the civilian population just at a moment when the Government is sinking to an all time low in the polls, and dangerously low public support for the war in Iraq is threatening the Government's credibility.
Anyone else got a view on this?
However, is there anyone out there who thinks (as I do) that the deployment of TANKS around Heathrow, Staines and towns in Berkshire is perhaps a little over-dramatic?
I don't think Al-Qaeda have exactly got themselves fully militarised in the UK yet have they? Surely tanks will not protect anyone from either a rocket, mortar or suicide-bomber attack? Well trained and armed army personnel could easily do that surely.
What seems to me though is that what the tanks do achieve is to do a very good job of frightening the bejeezus out of the civilian population just at a moment when the Government is sinking to an all time low in the polls, and dangerously low public support for the war in Iraq is threatening the Government's credibility.
Anyone else got a view on this?
That's gotta to be the reason, send out the tanks for the "perceived threat", everyone gets scared, and suddenly the polls swing to war when they were originally peace.
Tanks or APCs are bloody useless, christ, the "bad guys" could come with a milk-float (explosive bottles!!) and still out-run the tanks.
Tanks or APCs are bloody useless, christ, the "bad guys" could come with a milk-float (explosive bottles!!) and still out-run the tanks.
What use would the tanks be? Well they would make a fine road block if a truck bomb with a suicide merchant at the wheel is on the rampage.
The army (with armoured cars etc) usualy exercise a couple of times a year at Gatwick, so it's not unprecedented - albeit on a smaller scale. Dunno if Heathrow have the same exercises.
The army (with armoured cars etc) usualy exercise a couple of times a year at Gatwick, so it's not unprecedented - albeit on a smaller scale. Dunno if Heathrow have the same exercises.
robp said:At the same time it could be exactly what they are claiming - a direct threat was discovered which they are reacting to.
Not wanting to cause alarm, but apparently al Queda always make a statement of some sort just before an attack, today they called on all muslims to stand against the US.
FunkyNige said: Not wanting to cause alarm, but apparently al Queda always make a statement of some sort just before an attack, today they called on all muslims to stand against the US.
Well Osama has been in the video-booth again calling his followers to arms today, which is worrying.
I totally believe that there is the real possibility of an attack of some sort... the point I'm asking though is given the kind of attack, be it rocket, suicide-bomb, car-bomb or whatever (and you can extend that if you like to the chemical/nuclear variety which US sources have been hinting at tonight) what exactly will the deployment of tanks achieve???
They are pathetically slow on tarmac'd roads, not exactly nimble, and inappropriately armed to counter the weapons the "enemy" is likely to choose... for christ's sake even if a car-bomber decided to try and drive into Terminal 3 and set a bomb off, are the army seriously going to try and take the car out with a 60mm tank gun?
I think the threat is real, but I'm just a bit suspicious that the use of Tanks in response to the threat is more about the political battle at home than actually stopping an attack from Al-Quaeda...
John
Tripps said:Tanks or APCs are bloody useless, christ, the "bad guys" could come with a milk-float (explosive bottles!!) and still out-run the tanks.
Corozin said:They are pathetically slow on tarmac'd roads
Ever seen a Challenger 2 on full chat? - 35mph in something which weighs 62,500kgs is pretty quick and still quicker than a milkfloat
And the FV 107 Scimitar's which are at Heathrow will do 50mph which isn't 'pathetically slow'.
>> Edited by Graham.J on Wednesday 12th February 01:11
Graham.J said:
Tripps said:Tanks or APCs are bloody useless, christ, the "bad guys" could come with a milk-float (explosive bottles!!) and still out-run the tanks.
Corozin said:They are pathetically slow on tarmac'd roads
Ever seen a Challenger 2 on full chat? - 35mph in something which weighs 62,500kgs is pretty quick and still quicker than a milkfloat
And the FV 107 Scimitar's which are at Heathrow will do 50mph which isn't 'pathetically slow'.
>> Edited by Graham.J on Wednesday 12th February 01:11
I managed to drive the CVRT range of vechiles,scorpion, scimitar,spartan,sultan,and samson,all powered by the jaguar 4.2 engine with the 17/21st lancers at carver barracks,an old WW11 airfield.And i must say more fun than a tvr.oh and i managed 70mph on a tarmaced runway. The issue of the tank deployment is the fear factor,the point being that a show of force might frighten the general populace but might also act as a possible deterent to the would be terrorist.The same can be said of the SAS the whole ethos surrounding the black clad SAS trooper is to instill maxim fear in the terrorist.The sight of a black clad trooper at a point of entry in to a building or room is meant to have demoralising effect on the terrorist.A succseful example of this was (operation nimrod) the iranian embassy siege.Many of the terrorists froze with fear on being confronted by the sas that a few surrendered there and then.The police have also adopted this stance.How many times have you seen lines of police at a demo or riot wearing a balaclava under there riot helmet,they wear them to instill fear in the opposition.Many of you are right a tank is not going to stop a suicide bomber,but it might deter him or her from attacking that particular target.
luckily the evil terrorist have not heard of our "secret" airports at Gatwick, stansted, manchester, luton (ok forget luton no-one has heard of luton) and of course the city airport.
I admit not many flights to isreal from these places but still plenty of large aircraft.
Deployment is *almost* a waste of time - but naturally i am glad that we have excellent (if underequipped) armed forces to defend us.
But if I was a london hotelier I might be looking for a suitable high point in my hotel from which to launch myself.
I admit not many flights to isreal from these places but still plenty of large aircraft.
Deployment is *almost* a waste of time - but naturally i am glad that we have excellent (if underequipped) armed forces to defend us.
But if I was a london hotelier I might be looking for a suitable high point in my hotel from which to launch myself.
Big_M said: My Mum and Dad are flying out of Heathrow on Thursday for two weeks holiday in Egypt. Must admit that I am a tad concerned. They aren't worried in the least.
I shouldn't worry too much Deb, if they are indeed planning anything nasty they would try their hardest to not hit anything that would not directly effect their "enemy". If your mum and dad are off to egypt they will be on a flight carrying plenty of muslims and Egyptian nationals the last thing the bad guys want at the moment is to call in condemnation from an Arab state and add strength to the US arguement.
That is of course unless it gets shot down by the CIA in order that old bin bag gets the blame
Large road blocks in Windsor late last night; some 20 coppers and several vans. Later they called in some dogs. They were still there this morning keeping an eye on things.
Monday night I saw a gaggle (if that is the correct collective noun) of scimitars (small tanks?) passing my flat. 4 of them went up and down several times. They looked pretty nimble even on tracks.
Monday night I saw a gaggle (if that is the correct collective noun) of scimitars (small tanks?) passing my flat. 4 of them went up and down several times. They looked pretty nimble even on tracks.
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