Driving Without Insurance
Discussion
OK I have never considered myself a troll, but I can expect this one to cause some serious argument.
I've seen a bunch of threads on PH recently regarding insurance for new drivers. The cost of this, for 17-18 yr olds on completely basic cars, seems to be in the region of 2 thousand pounds.
I may drive a 911 now but when I was 18 there was absolutely NO way I could afford this level of insurance (I had to get a loan to pay the 600 quid insurance on my Escort 1.1 when I started).
I reckon large amounts of young people end up driving without insurance. I started driving when I lived in Somerset - no London-style chance of getting a job without a car.
Is this the start of the spiral? As insurance becomes unaffordable for young people needing cars to go to jobs, more people drive without insurance, therefore insurance for the rest of us becomes more expensive.
I'd like to hear from anyone who can explain how this can be beaten - simply saying 'driving without insurance is illegal' cuts no ice with those who need to drive to get a job, and can't pay the equivalent of a small mortgage on insurance.
I tend to steer clear of young drivers in cheap cars. No snobbiness, but if I was there now, I'd be driving without insurance. 200 quid a month, forget it.
:flameproof suit on:
I've seen a bunch of threads on PH recently regarding insurance for new drivers. The cost of this, for 17-18 yr olds on completely basic cars, seems to be in the region of 2 thousand pounds.
I may drive a 911 now but when I was 18 there was absolutely NO way I could afford this level of insurance (I had to get a loan to pay the 600 quid insurance on my Escort 1.1 when I started).
I reckon large amounts of young people end up driving without insurance. I started driving when I lived in Somerset - no London-style chance of getting a job without a car.
Is this the start of the spiral? As insurance becomes unaffordable for young people needing cars to go to jobs, more people drive without insurance, therefore insurance for the rest of us becomes more expensive.
I'd like to hear from anyone who can explain how this can be beaten - simply saying 'driving without insurance is illegal' cuts no ice with those who need to drive to get a job, and can't pay the equivalent of a small mortgage on insurance.
I tend to steer clear of young drivers in cheap cars. No snobbiness, but if I was there now, I'd be driving without insurance. 200 quid a month, forget it.
:flameproof suit on:
the best advice i have would be to lower the premiums... this may sound like a really stupid idea but as you said young people can't afford to pay...
so if premiums were cheaper, then the person stacks it then jack it up considerably, but if they don't get any points and don't crash then surely its better they're paying a more reasonable figure than none at all...
i DO have insurance, but i can't afford to have it in my own name
edited to add, if they don't make a claim then there in theory would be more "better" drivers on the road with fuller NCB's by there early twenties...
but then if you take your test at 25 and pass, insurance would be cheaper for you on a expensive/nice car than a 19 year old who's been driving for 2 years
the 25 year old is not percheived as a risk, but has no driving experience and could insure a porsche for less than they younger driver on a peugeot...
>> Edited by littlegearl on Thursday 13th February 00:43
so if premiums were cheaper, then the person stacks it then jack it up considerably, but if they don't get any points and don't crash then surely its better they're paying a more reasonable figure than none at all...
i DO have insurance, but i can't afford to have it in my own name
edited to add, if they don't make a claim then there in theory would be more "better" drivers on the road with fuller NCB's by there early twenties...
but then if you take your test at 25 and pass, insurance would be cheaper for you on a expensive/nice car than a 19 year old who's been driving for 2 years
the 25 year old is not percheived as a risk, but has no driving experience and could insure a porsche for less than they younger driver on a peugeot...
>> Edited by littlegearl on Thursday 13th February 00:43
Insurance is a tricky thing to get people to like, especially when (if you're on 3rd party) you are the only person on Earth with absolutely no chance of seeing the benefits of the thousands of pounds you're spending.
Maybe they should create a class of vehicle that doesn't need insurance but will allow it's driver/rider to acrue experience that counts towards no claims bonus. A kind of moped for example, keep it limited to short range journeys and design it entirely so that it won't damage anything it hits.
I'm lucky on insurance, my Dad works for one of the big names and my rates are 'reasonable' to say the least. 21 yrs old, £225 for a 2.0i saloon (albeit an old vauxhall-shaped one).
Maybe they should create a class of vehicle that doesn't need insurance but will allow it's driver/rider to acrue experience that counts towards no claims bonus. A kind of moped for example, keep it limited to short range journeys and design it entirely so that it won't damage anything it hits.
I'm lucky on insurance, my Dad works for one of the big names and my rates are 'reasonable' to say the least. 21 yrs old, £225 for a 2.0i saloon (albeit an old vauxhall-shaped one).
OK I have never considered myself a troll, but I can expect this one to cause some serious argument.
I've seen a bunch of threads on PH recently regarding insurance for new drivers. The cost of this, for 17-18 yr olds on completely basic cars, seems to be in the region of 2 thousand pounds.
I may drive a 911 now but when I was 18 there was absolutely NO way I could afford this level of insurance (I had to get a loan to pay the 600 quid insurance on my Escort 1.1 when I started).
I reckon large amounts of young people end up driving without insurance. I started driving when I lived in Somerset - no London-style chance of getting a job without a car.
Is this the start of the spiral? As insurance becomes unaffordable for young people needing cars to go to jobs, more people drive without insurance, therefore insurance for the rest of us becomes more expensive.
I'd like to hear from anyone who can explain how this can be beaten - simply saying 'driving without insurance is illegal' cuts no ice with those who need to drive to get a job, and can't pay the equivalent of a small mortgage on insurance.
I tend to steer clear of young drivers in cheap cars. No snobbiness, but if I was there now, I'd be driving without insurance. 200 quid a month, forget it.
:flameproof suit on:
Even better, the insurance companies will load a premium to the nuts the moment a conviction for driving without insurance is mentioned.
I fail to see the logic in this one! Making it harder for people who arent driving legally to do so...
A couple of years ago I recieved an IN10, you dont want to see what that does to my insurance prices now, im paying close to what I was at 18...
(Long story, thought I was insured)
Well the other option is to buy a shit car to start with like the rest of us did. 2k premiums are not for a typical new car, so if they get a 1.0 litre micra they aren't going to have that kind of problem.
Call me a bastard, but if you can't afford to run a car then don't... There was a time when everyone managed to survive without every family owning two.
Frankly I find it more irritating that I'm quoted 2k premiums because of where I live.
Afraid to say, we've all done it. Age 22 I had a 1.4 Ford Escort... £700 a year to insure. Hated the car, it was slow, didn't corner etc etc... but accepted it. (All made harder by the fact I was allowed to drive my Dad's cars!).
Bought a Cinquecento Sporting... fun little thing, and insurance was "only" £380.
Graduated, bought a Fiesta Zetec-S... £680 insurance. Then a Puma £720... now an Escort 1.8; £500 and a TVR S; £320.
I've never made a claim, had an accident, and I have no points or convictions. In short... I pay my money each year, and (touch wood) never seen a penny of it back.
Bought a Cinquecento Sporting... fun little thing, and insurance was "only" £380.
Graduated, bought a Fiesta Zetec-S... £680 insurance. Then a Puma £720... now an Escort 1.8; £500 and a TVR S; £320.
I've never made a claim, had an accident, and I have no points or convictions. In short... I pay my money each year, and (touch wood) never seen a penny of it back.
ker gets caught and fined 100 quid - about a tenth of the cost the premium would be. whats all that about??????Could have a scheme like they have in Oz (at least they used to) - you could get 3rd party cover from the Government at a fixed cost.
Thinking about it though, this aint gonna work in the litigious culture today in UK.
Alternatively as has been said - just accept it - don't buy a car if you can't afford it - my first 2 cars (Capris
) had yearly premiums for TPFT that were more than the cars cost
Thinking about it though, this aint gonna work in the litigious culture today in UK.
Alternatively as has been said - just accept it - don't buy a car if you can't afford it - my first 2 cars (Capris
) had yearly premiums for TPFT that were more than the cars costThere is no excuse for driving without insurance. It is primarily there to protect innocent parties who in the worst case lose their lives or are seriously injured. Driving is a privilege, not a right. I moved
250 miles to get my first job and used public transport for 18 months before I could afford to insure a 1.3 Golf (for £302 in 1989). In my opinion there should be a 5 year driving ban and automatic test resit for anyone caught driving without insurance.
250 miles to get my first job and used public transport for 18 months before I could afford to insure a 1.3 Golf (for £302 in 1989). In my opinion there should be a 5 year driving ban and automatic test resit for anyone caught driving without insurance.
Insurance is an absolute nightmare. I simply cannot afford to drive with the current quotes under my own name. However, I wont drive without insurance on the road. I think the current fine is under £100 for getting caught without insurance, this is a joke IMHO.
The reason for all of the HUGE rises in premiums? A simple law was brought in that allowed the NHS to claim back up to £10k from the insurance companies in the event of an unfortunate accident. The no win no fee thingys and boy racers dont exactly help matters.
I find it hard to believe that I can cover to get on track in Dads Cerbera for under £200 yet I wont be able to be a named driver on that car for a good 5 years yet, and even then I should think it will add a good grand to the premiums.
ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited to say, my quotes have ranged from:
under my own name: £2100 to £5800
under dads name, with me named: £1170 to 2800
At the moment, im going to be under my dads name until im about 25, not 'kin funny.
>> Edited by BCA on Thursday 13th February 11:15
The reason for all of the HUGE rises in premiums? A simple law was brought in that allowed the NHS to claim back up to £10k from the insurance companies in the event of an unfortunate accident. The no win no fee thingys and boy racers dont exactly help matters.
I find it hard to believe that I can cover to get on track in Dads Cerbera for under £200 yet I wont be able to be a named driver on that car for a good 5 years yet, and even then I should think it will add a good grand to the premiums.
ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited to say, my quotes have ranged from:
under my own name: £2100 to £5800
under dads name, with me named: £1170 to 2800
At the moment, im going to be under my dads name until im about 25, not 'kin funny.
>> Edited by BCA on Thursday 13th February 11:15
DanH said:
Well the other option is to buy a shit car to start with like the rest of us did. 2k premiums are not for a typical new car, so if they get a 1.0 litre micra they aren't going to have that kind of problem.
Call me a bastard, but if you can't afford to run a car then don't... There was a time when everyone managed to survive without every family owning two.
Frankly I find it more irritating that I'm quoted 2k premiums because of where I live.
sorry I have to take issue with this - it used (10 yrs ago?) to be far more affordable to run a car when you first started driving. Isn't the issue that we're being PRICED off the road? as for a 2k quote for where you live, isn't that another example? [standsreadytobecorrected]
edited to add: my first car was a renault 5 worth £200 & the premium TPO was £1180. my second car (6 weeks later) was an orion 1.4 worth £700 - again, TPO ins was £1372. I lived at the time in north northumberland, about as far away as you can get from ANY sort of crime (last burglary 1982)
>> Edited by minimax on Thursday 13th February 11:31
An 18 year old guy I know was looking at my Clio 1.2 I am selling - The best quote he could get was £3400!!!
He lives in a dodgy area and the car is worth £7k or so, but £3400 for a 75 BHP car!!
He is now buying a brand new one as Renault offer free insurance for a year..
I had a 5GT Turbo at 17 and that was about £1000 to insure, 8 years ago.
He lives in a dodgy area and the car is worth £7k or so, but £3400 for a 75 BHP car!!
He is now buying a brand new one as Renault offer free insurance for a year..
I had a 5GT Turbo at 17 and that was about £1000 to insure, 8 years ago.
Im still classed as a "Immature" driver in the eyes of our beloved insurance companies (23 yrs old). Through my experience the only thing you can do is build up you NCB's a quickly as possible.
After i passed my test i had a clapped out Uno as a named diver on my Mums policy. I got a little experience and bought a fiesta 1.0 under my own name. You have to shop around as much a possible to get the best quotes, i think my first premium was in the region of £800 fully comp. I think some insurance companies will slightly lower premiums if you have been driving for a few years.
From then i just built up my NCB, i think i qualify for 4 years in a few months. NCB's had a massive affect on my premiums (see below)
2 years NCB - Fully comp on a MGF in Manchester- £2200
3 years NCB - Fully comp on the same MGF - £1200
3 yeas NCB fully comp- on a 206 GTi £1460
Now i drive a BMW 323i coupe and its dropped to £1400.
Its alot of money to pay but if you want a decent car you gotta fork out the cash. Any arguments against not buying insurance to me are nonsense - there is no excuse!
After i passed my test i had a clapped out Uno as a named diver on my Mums policy. I got a little experience and bought a fiesta 1.0 under my own name. You have to shop around as much a possible to get the best quotes, i think my first premium was in the region of £800 fully comp. I think some insurance companies will slightly lower premiums if you have been driving for a few years.
From then i just built up my NCB, i think i qualify for 4 years in a few months. NCB's had a massive affect on my premiums (see below)
2 years NCB - Fully comp on a MGF in Manchester- £2200
3 years NCB - Fully comp on the same MGF - £1200
3 yeas NCB fully comp- on a 206 GTi £1460
Now i drive a BMW 323i coupe and its dropped to £1400.
Its alot of money to pay but if you want a decent car you gotta fork out the cash. Any arguments against not buying insurance to me are nonsense - there is no excuse!
this is the other thing i don't understand is sometimes and some people can get cracking deals... and some people just get laughed at by insurance companies.
i know someone who at 18 got himself a 205 GTi and has a cheaper insurance premium than what my brother was quoted on a Golf GTi at 24.
i also know someone who at 17 had a £3.5k beetle (mdified) and a £8k+ kit car with a combined insurance premium of about £1200... yeah ok he's got specialist insurance, but his specialist insurance would touch me on my car until i'm 25
so guy driving a kit car (over 120bhp) and a 1.6 beetle at 17 is less of a risk than an 18 year old in a 2.0 cavalier (100bhp)???
(ok his beetles not that fast, but it looks sweet... porsche alloys, lowered, de-bumpered, huge exhaust etc...)
he also phoned to ask how much to add his girlfriend on his beetle and it would be an extra £80 a year thats for another 17 year old on a 17 year olds policy.
yet to add me on my mums rover (mum is 51) which is worth about £500 as an occasional driver would cost an extra £500+ a year!!!
how do they get these figures!?! it must surely be guesswork!!!
i know someone who at 18 got himself a 205 GTi and has a cheaper insurance premium than what my brother was quoted on a Golf GTi at 24.
i also know someone who at 17 had a £3.5k beetle (mdified) and a £8k+ kit car with a combined insurance premium of about £1200... yeah ok he's got specialist insurance, but his specialist insurance would touch me on my car until i'm 25
so guy driving a kit car (over 120bhp) and a 1.6 beetle at 17 is less of a risk than an 18 year old in a 2.0 cavalier (100bhp)???
(ok his beetles not that fast, but it looks sweet... porsche alloys, lowered, de-bumpered, huge exhaust etc...)
he also phoned to ask how much to add his girlfriend on his beetle and it would be an extra £80 a year thats for another 17 year old on a 17 year olds policy.
yet to add me on my mums rover (mum is 51) which is worth about £500 as an occasional driver would cost an extra £500+ a year!!!
how do they get these figures!?! it must surely be guesswork!!!
In SA and Namibia 3rd party cover is included in the price of the Petrol; a very good idea (although I suspect our beloved governemnt would profit by it) in my opinion. Particularly as we seem unwilling/unable to deal appropriately with people who choose to drive without insurance or to have any intention or ability to recompense the poor bugger they cause a loss to.
Mike.
Mike.
Big Chris said: Did your mate tell them about the mods on the beetle?
yep!!! they definatle know about the engine (used to be 1.3, now 1.6) and the porker alloys... i presume they also know about the stereo, suspension and exhaust... and in my mind since he de-bumpered it, it looks a lot better and is more likely to be stolen.
he's with footman james, a specialist insurer i have nothing against but at the classic car motorshow they said they wouldn't touch my 24 year old cavalier until i was 25... this was before i had even told them it was a 2.0!!!
god knows why, whats more desirable, a mint old vauxhall ('78) or a modified mint beetle ('74)!?!
Insurance is just a complete con...i really REALLY hate it but sadly we cant do anything about it until the government steps in and regulates it. The only problem is - Why should they? - You cant drive without it and the indescrepancies from company to company are outragious.
Ie Inital insurance quotes on my MGF ranged from £8000 to £2200.
I cant drive my mums golf VR6 because my insurance company wont allow me to drive other vehicles. I offered to pay a higher premium, still wouldnt let me (even though i drive a performance car)
I cant be put on my mums insurance as a named driver until im 30!!!!
Yet old codgers who can barely see and toke their tests 50 years ago therefore have no clue about new road rules get dirt cheap insurance?????????
Ie Inital insurance quotes on my MGF ranged from £8000 to £2200.
I cant drive my mums golf VR6 because my insurance company wont allow me to drive other vehicles. I offered to pay a higher premium, still wouldnt let me (even though i drive a performance car)
I cant be put on my mums insurance as a named driver until im 30!!!!
Yet old codgers who can barely see and toke their tests 50 years ago therefore have no clue about new road rules get dirt cheap insurance?????????
sorry I have to take issue with this - it used (10 yrs ago?) to be far more affordable to run a car when you first started driving. Isn't the issue that we're being PRICED off the road? as for a 2k quote for where you live, isn't that another example? [standsreadytobecorrected]
I don't blame the insurance company that I live in this shit hole part of London (right by Canary Wharf). Having said that, and given the miles I cover it does seem a little overboard!
Rates are sky high at the moment as insurance has been a rough business of late, lots of disasters (flooding, twin towers & etc) have forced premiums up. They'll go back down again once the companies are no longer on the border line of being broke.
If the government does a better job of catching uninsured drivers and then impounding their cars if they repeat offend it would help too.
Alternatively they could move to a policy whereby its the car thats insured not the driver. They do this in some countries.
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