Brought to tears by 'Management Training'
Discussion
Someone close to me has just returned from what was called a 'Management Training' week with one of the world's leading corporations. During this time they were asked to conform to 'The Rules', required not to talk about the course to friends or family, and encouraged to recruit others to the course. Whilst on the course, they confessed their deepest secrets to one another, cried and cried, and then felt elation.
Those of you who have been on this kind of self awareness or personal growth course, or who have colleagues, friends or family that have been will know the sort of thing I mean immediately. Often they're run by people with training from EST-based organisations like Legacy, Lifespring, Asiaworks etc.
This person is still recovering from the breakdown that ensued.
Any advice? Anyone been on anything similar?
I am incandescently angry about this. Fair game if you know what you're letting yourself in for on these cultish cons, but to hide it as management training, then pressurise people into taking the course without telling them that they'll end up moonies, and to get the company complicit in all this is a scandal of immense proportions.
Those of you who have been on this kind of self awareness or personal growth course, or who have colleagues, friends or family that have been will know the sort of thing I mean immediately. Often they're run by people with training from EST-based organisations like Legacy, Lifespring, Asiaworks etc.
This person is still recovering from the breakdown that ensued.
Any advice? Anyone been on anything similar?
I am incandescently angry about this. Fair game if you know what you're letting yourself in for on these cultish cons, but to hide it as management training, then pressurise people into taking the course without telling them that they'll end up moonies, and to get the company complicit in all this is a scandal of immense proportions.
Well I was forced by my ex employer (big american corp) to go on something with two of my direct reports about 4 years ago sounds pretty similar.
It was a two day residential thing started by treating us like kids then telling the females when then could go to the loo and when the could not (big deal at the time only allowed once aday from 7am-8pm), also tried to take all our mobile phones off us for the duration (I was the sales director of said company 2 weeks before quater end with a 200m target)so a little under pressure.
They also tried to get us to open up but I just refused didn't go down well.
All our ideas were rubbished including everything we had learnt in 10 years in the same industry.
And there ideas were the only one's that were to be used !!!!
Well the result was that at 8pm on the first day I walked out with my two members of staff (it was either that or the fact that I was going to punch the tutors lights out I don't say that lightly either I realy was going to punch him and I am not violent at all)
Basically I took vol redundancy and set up on my own about 4 months later, it was the final nail in the coffin for me.
The strange thing is that with my new busines I see the same tutor from time to time and just have the same urges, however he is nice as pie to me needless to say I tend to rubbish his courses to his face not very profesional I no but no one should have to go through that in the line of work.
Hope everything sorts its self out with your friend.
All the best
It was a two day residential thing started by treating us like kids then telling the females when then could go to the loo and when the could not (big deal at the time only allowed once aday from 7am-8pm), also tried to take all our mobile phones off us for the duration (I was the sales director of said company 2 weeks before quater end with a 200m target)so a little under pressure.
They also tried to get us to open up but I just refused didn't go down well.
All our ideas were rubbished including everything we had learnt in 10 years in the same industry.
And there ideas were the only one's that were to be used !!!!
Well the result was that at 8pm on the first day I walked out with my two members of staff (it was either that or the fact that I was going to punch the tutors lights out I don't say that lightly either I realy was going to punch him and I am not violent at all)
Basically I took vol redundancy and set up on my own about 4 months later, it was the final nail in the coffin for me.
The strange thing is that with my new busines I see the same tutor from time to time and just have the same urges, however he is nice as pie to me needless to say I tend to rubbish his courses to his face not very profesional I no but no one should have to go through that in the line of work.
Hope everything sorts its self out with your friend.
All the best
dazren said: With my previous company I only ever went on courses that I've felt I've benefitted from, I'm beginning to question if this was a freakishly good run of luck.
nah - I 'politely declined' the opportunity to go on one of these nutcase training weekends at my last place & stuck to proper technical & vocational training.
If I ever end up in a management position at a large company with a budget for this sort of thing though, you can bet I'd send any employees who needed to stop fcuking whining on one of these..
CarZee said:nah - I 'politely declined' the opportunity to go on one of these nutcase training weekends at my last place & stuck to proper technical & vocational training.
Got to agree there. My old co didn't fcuk about as 95 percent of courses were of a technical nature rather than mind fcuk happy clappy hallelujah bashes.
On a serious note, without wishing to encourage the compensation culture any employment law experts care to say if the victim can sue the employer for sending them on the course?
DAZ
My mate is VERY strong willed, but the slippery slope was so gradual that they didn't notice they were being brainwashed until it was too late. They seem to employ self-hypnosis and peer pressure to ensure that all but the most obstinate and determined succumb. There were even two pre course sessions to soften them up before the main event.
I think that most of the posters on pistonheads are independent thinkers, but I'll bet that even some of us would be drawn in if this sort of course was sold the right way - fast track management training; only route to the board etc etc
I think that most of the posters on pistonheads are independent thinkers, but I'll bet that even some of us would be drawn in if this sort of course was sold the right way - fast track management training; only route to the board etc etc
This must be NLP - (Neuro Linguistic Programming), that Paul McKenna (Magician) is linked to. I'm amazed that colleges send their teachers on these courses (not just corporations).
I attended a L*ndm*rk course last year (sorry not allowed to talk about it ) b*ll*x - it's amazing what people love to submit themselves to . . .
It's worth reading about these courses - but they do prey on people - to get them motivated - but if I had Mike Tyson as a boss I might get more motivated!
I attended a L*ndm*rk course last year (sorry not allowed to talk about it
) b*ll*x - it's amazing what people love to submit themselves to . . . It's worth reading about these courses - but they do prey on people - to get them motivated - but if I had Mike Tyson as a boss I might get more motivated!
It' s frightening this sort of stuff. My mate was on a lateral thinking course a few years back - paired off and subjected to mind games - "ok, you're in a 30 foot deep crater with only a rubber band and a packet of chewits for company - how do you get out?"
And this was supposed to prepare him for being an editor in the publishing industry
Also had a good mate who I went to college with who lived in Sheffield - we used to have a cracking time in the 80s - clubbing at The Ledmill etc - till he met some posh tart who introduced him to some Church or other.
He COMPLETELY changed virtually overnight - went from a beer swilling, smoking, cussing normal bloke to a glazed-eyes, pallid skinned, mantra-chanting, fixed-voiced knob.
Never saw the bloke again (15 years ago now)
Planet Earth calling Fat Chris ...
And this was supposed to prepare him for being an editor in the publishing industry
Also had a good mate who I went to college with who lived in Sheffield - we used to have a cracking time in the 80s - clubbing at The Ledmill etc - till he met some posh tart who introduced him to some Church or other.
He COMPLETELY changed virtually overnight - went from a beer swilling, smoking, cussing normal bloke to a glazed-eyes, pallid skinned, mantra-chanting, fixed-voiced knob.
Never saw the bloke again (15 years ago now)
Planet Earth calling Fat Chris ...
robkola said: This must be NLP - (Neuro Linguistic Programming), that Paul McKenna (Magician) is linked to. I'm amazed that colleges send their teachers on these courses (not just corporations).
No, NLP is a technique that can help to reprogram habits etc, but is not licensed to any company, and certainly doesn't involve brainwashing. I'm not a big fan of NLP, but it's not a cult. I know of at least one PHer who is a qualified NLP practitioner, and his business doesn't employ any of the methods described here.
I've done plenty of "continuous training" and "leadership development" in my previous jobs but absolutely none of this mumbo jumbo shit, sure I've lived in the woods, been deprived sleep, endured physical hardship, and been made to give formal presentations to large groups of people all good character building and growth promoting stuff that really works.
However when I found that I had to liase with the training geeks at the local collage and the suits at the "modern apprentiship" office they told me we had to send out trainee off on a management and leadership course for "personal development" it took me weeks argueing with them before they agreed to allow him to go off and do something that a) I thought would be beneficial b) the trainee got enthusiastic about and finally c) something they could fit into their "framework" basically he went off for a fortnight with the Ocean Youth Club and crewed on a large yacht coming over from belgium to portsmouth, he learnt more about fear, teamwork, leadership and interaction with others in harsh environments than he ever would have on some shite residential course. You could actually see a difference in the confidence and attitude of the lad that came back, he was proud of what he'd done and the only drawback was having to keep telling the little gobshite to shut up and stop boring the rest of us with his sea stories
However when I found that I had to liase with the training geeks at the local collage and the suits at the "modern apprentiship" office they told me we had to send out trainee off on a management and leadership course for "personal development" it took me weeks argueing with them before they agreed to allow him to go off and do something that a) I thought would be beneficial b) the trainee got enthusiastic about and finally c) something they could fit into their "framework" basically he went off for a fortnight with the Ocean Youth Club and crewed on a large yacht coming over from belgium to portsmouth, he learnt more about fear, teamwork, leadership and interaction with others in harsh environments than he ever would have on some shite residential course. You could actually see a difference in the confidence and attitude of the lad that came back, he was proud of what he'd done and the only drawback was having to keep telling the little gobshite to shut up and stop boring the rest of us with his sea stories
I agree it's never termed a cult - but it used by companys/individuals to learn a form of "control" over students/ negotiations etc . . well that's what they've told me it does!
rude girl said:
robkola said: This must be NLP - (Neuro Linguistic Programming), that Paul McKenna (Magician) is linked to. I'm amazed that colleges send their teachers on these courses (not just corporations).
No, NLP is a technique that can help to reprogram habits etc, but is not licensed to any company, and certainly doesn't involve brainwashing. I'm not a big fan of NLP, but it's not a cult. I know of at least one PHer who is a qualified NLP practitioner, and his business doesn't employ any of the methods described here.
robkola said: This must be NLP - (Neuro Linguistic Programming), that Paul McKenna (Magician) is linked to. I'm amazed that colleges send their teachers on these courses (not just corporations).
It's actually called LGAT (Large Group Awareness Training). I've now read up quite a bit on it and it's deeply scary stuff - people leaving their families, marrying their girlfiends (unsuccessfully), selling everything and giving the cash to the group, breakdowns and all sorts.
And when anyone changes their life - like leaving their company because they're so outraged that a body they trusted could have done something so awful to them, the course claims this as a success as someone has indeed 'changed their life'
NLP do loads of different courses - quite pricey; though they do look quite intersting.
L*ndm*rk starts at about 250 squid for a weekender and you don't (necessarily) get bled of cash (like Scientology from which this was an off-shoot) .. but they do encourage you to commit more and more time to it and get everyone you know to join in . .
Why did I go? Went to an open evening with a girl I've known a long time and was impressed with amount of tottie on show . . . o,h and the fact I wanted to experience this so I can talk about it without ignorance . . . .
Have just been out for a lunchtime cheese in the Chim and am feeling happy happy . .
>> Edited by robkola on Friday 21st February 14:42
L*ndm*rk starts at about 250 squid for a weekender and you don't (necessarily) get bled of cash (like Scientology from which this was an off-shoot) .. but they do encourage you to commit more and more time to it and get everyone you know to join in . .
Why did I go? Went to an open evening with a girl I've known a long time and was impressed with amount of tottie on show . . . o,h and the fact I wanted to experience this so I can talk about it without ignorance . . . .
Have just been out for a lunchtime cheese in the Chim and am feeling happy happy . .
>> Edited by robkola on Friday 21st February 14:42
robkola said: I agree it's never termed a cult - but it used by companys/individuals to learn a form of "control" over students/ negotiations etc . . well that's what they've told me it does!
Sorry mate, I'm going to have to take you up on this point. It is only a technique, it couldn't be termed a cult. Robert Dilks, who developed it as a technique, defines it as "the study of the structure of subjective experience" - it's the study of how you construct your mental models. The techniques which come out of it are communication techniques - they teach you how to communicate more effectively with others. It is sometimes used as part of a package of sales training techniques, and might take the form of teaching salespeople to read the person they are dealing with and modify their approach to one that the buyer is receptive to. Most skilled communicators do this naturally, and don't need to be taught it. I bet Mungo does it without thinking - he's a successful salesman.
NLP do loads of different courses - quite pricey
Like I said above, NLP is a technique, not an organisation. There are a range of organisations which provide NLP training, and unsurprisingly there are a range of prices.
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