MG Track Day......Nah, Old Fa*t Shuffle!
Discussion
This annoyed me so much I felt I’d share it with the rest of you.
Had a call from an MGF driving friend the other day saying he had the opportunity to take his ‘F’ on a club organised track day in March and would I be interested in coming along? Daft question!!!
Anyway heard from friend this morning as he had just read the track day rules; apparently you will be taken off the track and disciplined (and possibly removed per) for any activity that may result in tyre squeal or leaving the track itself.
Now am I just being short sighted or does this not completely go against the idea of a ‘track day’? After all what is the point in driving sedately on a track, surely the whole point being you are there to test and improve upon the abilities of you and your car?
These people just infuriate me beyond belief, flippin numpties.
My friend is currently attempting to find out just what they consider a track day to involve and why their literature for the day is misleading as it shows a fully prepared road car for race use, i.e. taped up lights etc and they insist on use of a lid, what’s the point if you can’t drive enthusiastically??
Sorry for the rant but I was looking forward to that. I think that particular club has too many organisers with a penchant for flat caps and driving gloves!!
Moral of the story as if you need to be told, stick with TVR great car and no (or not many) numpties!!
Now I’ve got that off my chest I better go and do some work.
Matt
Had a call from an MGF driving friend the other day saying he had the opportunity to take his ‘F’ on a club organised track day in March and would I be interested in coming along? Daft question!!!
Anyway heard from friend this morning as he had just read the track day rules; apparently you will be taken off the track and disciplined (and possibly removed per) for any activity that may result in tyre squeal or leaving the track itself.
Now am I just being short sighted or does this not completely go against the idea of a ‘track day’? After all what is the point in driving sedately on a track, surely the whole point being you are there to test and improve upon the abilities of you and your car?
These people just infuriate me beyond belief, flippin numpties.
My friend is currently attempting to find out just what they consider a track day to involve and why their literature for the day is misleading as it shows a fully prepared road car for race use, i.e. taped up lights etc and they insist on use of a lid, what’s the point if you can’t drive enthusiastically??
Sorry for the rant but I was looking forward to that. I think that particular club has too many organisers with a penchant for flat caps and driving gloves!!
Moral of the story as if you need to be told, stick with TVR great car and no (or not many) numpties!!
Now I’ve got that off my chest I better go and do some work.
Matt
My friend sent a reply detailing what he thought a true track day was about and questioning their rules on tyre squeal, their response……
“A small amount of tyre squealing is acceptable and would not be admonished,
but if it was on every lap then this would be deemed excessive. The fastest
way around a circuit is without any tyre squeal as tyre squeal wastes time
and energy (watch the best racing drivers).”
Err hello, I’m sure they did their fair share of tyre squealing before they got to be the ‘best racing drivers’!!!
Grrrrr!!!
“A small amount of tyre squealing is acceptable and would not be admonished,
but if it was on every lap then this would be deemed excessive. The fastest
way around a circuit is without any tyre squeal as tyre squeal wastes time
and energy (watch the best racing drivers).”
Err hello, I’m sure they did their fair share of tyre squealing before they got to be the ‘best racing drivers’!!!
Grrrrr!!!
Th3e "best" racing drivers have no tyre squeal because traction control is preventing the wheels from slipping and spinning and aerodynamics are glueing the car to the road. The correct respnse to that word of incorrect wisdom would have been - "You have'nt seen Martin Brundle in a D-Type then, have you?".
Thats gotta be a load of cobblers - and even if it is true surely its the track organisers not the MG club that makes the rules..?
I went on a MG track day at Bedford Autodrome, organised by MGOC and there were no such stupid rules there. Had fully prepped racers and drivers there too.
One guy even managed to spill a fully kitted MG B into the only bit of armco on teh west circuit
right before lunch (less than two minutes to go)
Luckily he + his passenger got out ok due to full rollcage etc, but a road car would have been toasted - he was allowed back on the circuit in another car after lunch though (although the doc checked him over first).
Get your mate to check the rules again, usually they black flag you if there is a hint of "racing" between participants, but seeing as you can make your tyres squeal at my local sainsbury carpark at sub 20mph, i can't see this as being an effective arguement at a track day for driving irresponsibly.
May be we were just lucky as Bedford Autodrome is a very professionally run place IMO.
I went on a MG track day at Bedford Autodrome, organised by MGOC and there were no such stupid rules there. Had fully prepped racers and drivers there too.
One guy even managed to spill a fully kitted MG B into the only bit of armco on teh west circuit
right before lunch (less than two minutes to go) Luckily he + his passenger got out ok due to full rollcage etc, but a road car would have been toasted - he was allowed back on the circuit in another car after lunch though (although the doc checked him over first).
Get your mate to check the rules again, usually they black flag you if there is a hint of "racing" between participants, but seeing as you can make your tyres squeal at my local sainsbury carpark at sub 20mph, i can't see this as being an effective arguement at a track day for driving irresponsibly.
May be we were just lucky as Bedford Autodrome is a very professionally run place IMO.
Buffalo said:
"Thats gotta be a load of cobblers - and even if it is true surely its the track organisers not the MG club that makes the rules..?"
To be honest I am not sure, all I know is that the event is to be held at Silverstone and that the club have issued a set of debrief rules to all participants which state rules such as that above.
The other rule worrying my friend was that if you spin off you could well be disqualified for good. He felt that was unfair, as he would be trying to find the limit of his car and that as a consequence he may well come off the track - although he did state that he would of course not even try going into a fast bend at the risk of any other track users.
The response was to ask if he felt he would be better off with some skid pan training!!
Just heard back and after another message to the club detailing that he has already had skid pan training as well as IAM qualifications, and feels that the real benefit of a track day is to improve on those abilities that could get him out of trouble on normal roads i.e. controlling a skid on a fast bend in average conditions he has been told that the day is ‘not the event that you require’ and his card has been refunded!!
Maybe I’m just not being unreasonable, I know that you need to respect all other track users and drive accordingly but surely these rules are far too restrictive?
"Thats gotta be a load of cobblers - and even if it is true surely its the track organisers not the MG club that makes the rules..?"
To be honest I am not sure, all I know is that the event is to be held at Silverstone and that the club have issued a set of debrief rules to all participants which state rules such as that above.
The other rule worrying my friend was that if you spin off you could well be disqualified for good. He felt that was unfair, as he would be trying to find the limit of his car and that as a consequence he may well come off the track - although he did state that he would of course not even try going into a fast bend at the risk of any other track users.
The response was to ask if he felt he would be better off with some skid pan training!!
Just heard back and after another message to the club detailing that he has already had skid pan training as well as IAM qualifications, and feels that the real benefit of a track day is to improve on those abilities that could get him out of trouble on normal roads i.e. controlling a skid on a fast bend in average conditions he has been told that the day is ‘not the event that you require’ and his card has been refunded!!
Maybe I’m just not being unreasonable, I know that you need to respect all other track users and drive accordingly but surely these rules are far too restrictive?
Sounds about right... that the event was at Silverstone is not insignificant - Octagon Motorsports seem to have pretty draconian rules regarding trackdays on their circuits...
We went to one at Brand Snatch, organised by .. errmm.. "Not-difficult-Circuit". The most stunning restriction was that you stood to be black flagged for any number of misdemeanours such as leaving the track.. at all..
And if you were black flagged, you were banned from all trackdays on all Octagon circuits for life.
Quite glad, in hindsight, that Smifffy cooked the clutch inside 3 laps or we could both be trackday pariahs now
FWIW I suspect that the draconian restrictions were because they'd had past discipline problems on trackdays organised by "Not-difficult-circuit" as no such restrictions were applied on Book-a-track days - but then Book-a-track tend to do the most well-disciplined and well run days in my experience.
It probably comes down to their public liability insurers, to be honest.. Best bet is just to do a trackday on a circuit not run by the Microsoft of circuit proprietors.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Tuesday 4th March 15:41
We went to one at Brand Snatch, organised by .. errmm.. "Not-difficult-Circuit". The most stunning restriction was that you stood to be black flagged for any number of misdemeanours such as leaving the track.. at all..
And if you were black flagged, you were banned from all trackdays on all Octagon circuits for life.
Quite glad, in hindsight, that Smifffy cooked the clutch inside 3 laps or we could both be trackday pariahs now
FWIW I suspect that the draconian restrictions were because they'd had past discipline problems on trackdays organised by "Not-difficult-circuit" as no such restrictions were applied on Book-a-track days - but then Book-a-track tend to do the most well-disciplined and well run days in my experience.
It probably comes down to their public liability insurers, to be honest.. Best bet is just to do a trackday on a circuit not run by the Microsoft of circuit proprietors.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Tuesday 4th March 15:41
CarZee said:Best bet is just to do a trackday on a circuit not run by the Microsoft of circuit proprietors.
I agree. Vote with your feet, and go somewhere without such sad rules. I had a top day at Castle Combe and neither the guy in the 944 (into the tyres) nor the Tuscan (round and round and round in lots of smoke) got "sent off" - in fact the marshalls had quite a good laugh at them.
Sounds like a trackday for sunday drivers to me!
Maybe they have a pace car pulling a caravan at the front and they all drive round in a long convoy at 45mph.
This would allow them to practice the ability to drive close enough to the car infront to avoid hitting them if they had to brake, while still leave a small enough gap to stop anyone trying to overtake from pulling into it.
They could also master the skill of driving at a constant 45mph, whether they be on an open stretch of country road or passing through a village with a limit of 30mph!
Maybe they have a pace car pulling a caravan at the front and they all drive round in a long convoy at 45mph.
This would allow them to practice the ability to drive close enough to the car infront to avoid hitting them if they had to brake, while still leave a small enough gap to stop anyone trying to overtake from pulling into it.
They could also master the skill of driving at a constant 45mph, whether they be on an open stretch of country road or passing through a village with a limit of 30mph!
CarZee said: We went to one at Brand Snatch, organised by .. errmm.. "Not-difficult-Circuit". The most stunning restriction was that you stood to be black flagged for any number of misdemeanours such as leaving the track.. at all..
Jeez, they'll be putting up Gatso's next....
Edited to say: But Ted, surely straying off the circuit once shouldn't be rewarded by a total ban from all Octagon venues. The better trackday companies stick an instructor in with the more careless drivers. if they don't learn from their bit of free tuition then they get excluded - all fair IMHO.
>> Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 4th March 16:04
PetrolTed said: I don't think there's much wrong with trying to encourage people not to throw their cars off the track. Coming off a track is dangerous and everything should be done to minimise risk to participants.
Going beyond the envelope is usually best done on an airfield day.
............yes but there's little harm in opening the envelope a little and taking a peak outside.
We did an airfield day, slaloms etc, by the end of the day we had the cornering pretty down pat. Given our abilities!
But driving through cones etc just isn’t the same as taking the car by the scruff of the neck and testing it and your self against a variety of twists and turns over a prolonged period.
Maybe we didn’t do the right sort of airfield day, it ‘was’ fun but I feel that a proper track day would be the natural progression in learning how to control the car.
Matt
But driving through cones etc just isn’t the same as taking the car by the scruff of the neck and testing it and your self against a variety of twists and turns over a prolonged period.
Maybe we didn’t do the right sort of airfield day, it ‘was’ fun but I feel that a proper track day would be the natural progression in learning how to control the car.
Matt
I think there is a fine line to be drawn here.
The organisers are obviously covering their arses, so they can kick off some tosser in a modded 200SX who spins deliberately at every corner.
The point of a track day is that it isn't a skid control day and you shouldn't be setting out to EXCEED the limits of yourself or the car. The point is to improve your trackcraft, ie get around a ribbon of tramac as quickly as possible.
Where people have made genuine mistakes through trying to go around bends a little too quickly, marshalls have been lenient in my experience.
Where some nugget showboats around a hairpin corner at 30 degrees before spinning out for the nth time in front of somebody taking the correct line through it at racing speed, they should have the book thrown at them.
There is not the space or the facility to have cars 'discovering the limits' on a busy race track with cars doing racing speeds. If you find yourself with a clear track at the end of the day, I would have a go at sliding around like a nutter, but only then and I may warn the organisers first.
Remember that going into the kitty litter sods up the day for everyone, as the cars are slowed down or called in, recovery vehicle sent out, track swept etc.
All in all, your mate probably didn't have anything to worry about. It is like when a lease to a flat says 'no pets' they really mean no sodding great alsation that will chew through the plaster, and will be fine with a goldfish. But if your mate starts asking 'about this no pets rule' they think he has Tyson straining at the leash already!!!
That is what rules and regs are like. Cover their arses, but in reality they are only applied if you take the piss.
The organisers are obviously covering their arses, so they can kick off some tosser in a modded 200SX who spins deliberately at every corner.
The point of a track day is that it isn't a skid control day and you shouldn't be setting out to EXCEED the limits of yourself or the car. The point is to improve your trackcraft, ie get around a ribbon of tramac as quickly as possible.
Where people have made genuine mistakes through trying to go around bends a little too quickly, marshalls have been lenient in my experience.
Where some nugget showboats around a hairpin corner at 30 degrees before spinning out for the nth time in front of somebody taking the correct line through it at racing speed, they should have the book thrown at them.
There is not the space or the facility to have cars 'discovering the limits' on a busy race track with cars doing racing speeds. If you find yourself with a clear track at the end of the day, I would have a go at sliding around like a nutter, but only then and I may warn the organisers first.
Remember that going into the kitty litter sods up the day for everyone, as the cars are slowed down or called in, recovery vehicle sent out, track swept etc.
All in all, your mate probably didn't have anything to worry about. It is like when a lease to a flat says 'no pets' they really mean no sodding great alsation that will chew through the plaster, and will be fine with a goldfish. But if your mate starts asking 'about this no pets rule' they think he has Tyson straining at the leash already!!!
That is what rules and regs are like. Cover their arses, but in reality they are only applied if you take the piss.
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