Security Guard charged
Discussion
unbelievable.
This country is going to the dogs if this is what brave security guards get for trying to do their jobs.
Maybe they should from now on drive unsecured vans and if approached by a robber openly hand over everything they have so as to not be incriminated in any self-defence "murder" trials.
This and the "Tony Martin" case make me sick.
This country is going to the dogs if this is what brave security guards get for trying to do their jobs.
Maybe they should from now on drive unsecured vans and if approached by a robber openly hand over everything they have so as to not be incriminated in any self-defence "murder" trials.
This and the "Tony Martin" case make me sick.
They'd better release the guard without charge pronto. Else Fleet street is really going to go to town on this, they'll print the whole truth for once and make the Law look like an ass.
DAZ
PS - Message to the Guard, Top Man, this Englishman takes his hat off to you and wishes you well.
DAZ
PS - Message to the Guard, Top Man, this Englishman takes his hat off to you and wishes you well.
Yeah, I must admit to being rankled when they said 'black guard' . The 'black' thing was unnecessary.
Top marks for shooting the scroat. He even hit the back of his head, which is really good shooting in my experience of firing fullbore handguns. At the risk of sounding like a Torygraph reader, he should get a medal not a prison sentence.
To be honest, I think the guard will walk anyway, as self defence and the use of reasonable force are both present here (ie if he had shot a knifeman then that isn't justifiable force, but shooting a gunman is different).
Top marks for shooting the scroat. He even hit the back of his head, which is really good shooting in my experience of firing fullbore handguns. At the risk of sounding like a Torygraph reader, he should get a medal not a prison sentence.
To be honest, I think the guard will walk anyway, as self defence and the use of reasonable force are both present here (ie if he had shot a knifeman then that isn't justifiable force, but shooting a gunman is different).
domster said:To be honest, I think the guard will walk anyway, as self defence and the use of reasonable force are both present here (ie if he had shot a knifeman then that isn't justifiable force, but shooting a gunman is different).
I would like to think so... but following Tony Martin, I doubt it. If the robber had been shot in the front of the head, there's no argument, but the back of the head implies he was heading away, and the shooting is then not 'reasonable force'.
Which is where the law is an ass. Robber commits armed robbery, shoots guard, guard shoots robber dead, tough shit, comes with the territory.
Two ways of looking at this.
1.The robber still had a gun and was about to shoot the gaurd again. In which case he has a justifiable defence that his life was cleary at immediate and real risk and hence the "self defence" defence for murder stands and he gets off
2.The robber had dropped the gun and was running away when he was shot in which case there was no immediate risk to life and its murder, i.e matey had the hump cos he'd been shot and dished out some Judge Dred.
The other bits not yet shown in the paper are that the security gaurd was shot 3 times in chest but had a bullet proof vest on and he's a regular have ago hero who's been stabbed a few times already in other raids.
1.The robber still had a gun and was about to shoot the gaurd again. In which case he has a justifiable defence that his life was cleary at immediate and real risk and hence the "self defence" defence for murder stands and he gets off
2.The robber had dropped the gun and was running away when he was shot in which case there was no immediate risk to life and its murder, i.e matey had the hump cos he'd been shot and dished out some Judge Dred.
The other bits not yet shown in the paper are that the security gaurd was shot 3 times in chest but had a bullet proof vest on and he's a regular have ago hero who's been stabbed a few times already in other raids.
domster said:
To be honest, I think the guard will walk anyway...
That's if his leg wound isn't too serious.
The Sun really let's itself down by mentioning they guys skin colour. What the hell difference does it make?
I too think the guard should get a medal. Maybe there could be a PistonHeads Gallantry Award, presented to people like him. Like the Smiley and Cross Pistons but cast of gunmetal and on a ribbon of Securon webbing.
[alarmingoutbreakofliberaltendencies] Think it might be better to hold judgement on this one. The Sun is the only source I've seen that suggests that the robber was still armed. Shooting people who are running away from you in the back is hardly a heroic act, especially if you have no firearms experience-what if he'd missed and hit a third party. Having said which manslaughter yes, murder no. Can't believe you're supporting Tony Martin though, shooting an unarmed kid in the back -even if they are in your home- seems pretty indefensible to me
[/alarmingoutbreakofliberaltendencies]
Edited to add: If you want to read the ramblings of a deranged mind on Tony Martin, try the Support Group's Website
>> Edited by mrsd on Friday 14th March 17:45
[/alarmingoutbreakofliberaltendencies]
Edited to add: If you want to read the ramblings of a deranged mind on Tony Martin, try the Support Group's Website
>> Edited by mrsd on Friday 14th March 17:45
Yup, true, I hadn't given enough thought to the back of the head angle. True that this is difficult to argue as self defence, unless the robber was turning away momentarily to get cover, before returning fire etc.
That said, if someone shot at me three times in the chest, I would be a little bit put out...
That said, if someone shot at me three times in the chest, I would be a little bit put out...
Oh look don't let's all start getting all what-if, back-of-the-head, 20:20 hindsight handwringy about this. The guard guy went to work and found himself being shot at by masked gunman, and is in fact shot in the leg. He finds himself with the opportunity to shoot the scroat who has just shot him, and does so.
If someone had just shot me in the leg, and I found myself in a position to shoot him before he shoots at me again, I'm not going to worry about which way he's looking.
If someone had just shot me in the leg, and I found myself in a position to shoot him before he shoots at me again, I'm not going to worry about which way he's looking.
alarmingoutbreakofliberaltendencies] Think it might be better to hold judgement on this one. The Sun is the only source I've seen that suggests that the robber was still armed. Shooting people who are running away from you in the back is hardly a heroic act, especially if you have no firearms experience-what if he'd missed and hit a third party. Having said which manslaughter yes, murder no. Can't believe you're supporting Tony Martin though, shooting an unarmed kid in the back -even if they are in your home- seems pretty indefensible to me
[/alarmingoutbreakofliberaltendencies]
Edited to add: If you want to read the ramblings of a deranged mind on Tony Martin, try the Support Group's Website
Bollox!
[/alarmingoutbreakofliberaltendencies]
Edited to add: If you want to read the ramblings of a deranged mind on Tony Martin, try the Support Group's Website
Bollox!
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