Career advice needed

[uncertain]

I'm sure it won't take a genius to work out that I am a semi-regular PHer posting under another name - but I would prefer not to post under my usual login as things may come back to haunt me. Please do not post your suspected name of "Company X".

I joined "Company X" having spent 4 years at Uni - and I was to be working in the same field as my degree (which is fairly specialist).

I arrived to find that I was in fact in the IT department. Immediately I pointed out I knew little about IT, and over the last 18/24 months various attempts have been made to move me to the side of the business that I "should" be on.

However, recently I decided to look elsewhere, and took advice from an independent careers advisor (at significant expense) - but all the jobs I have applied for have said that I have been out of my chosen field for too long - I am not even getting a look in.

So, I turn to the knowledge of PH gassers.

What do I do? I am still relatively young, and I have a 2:1 in a numerate degree, in a specialist field. I have a job in IT that I hate (effectively project managing in-house IT applications).

Do I continue to look elsewhere? Or should I stay where I am? Or do I try to move within IT within "Company X" and try to gain some IT qualifications and skills? (of which I have none, and I have learned nothing new since graduation).

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcomed. Many thanks.

>>> Edited by uncertain on Tuesday 18th March 09:16

[Fer]

Uncertain, first thing you need to do is email me your bosses details, and job descrption! (All leads appreciated!)

Seriously though, I guess your frustraition at not working in your chosen field must make your working life pretty shitty. There is not much fun doing a job you do not like, but believe me, it beats signing on. Experience in a role is a catch 22 situation, you cannot get the role without it, and with out it, you cannot get the role. Is there any way you can encourage your company to move you into a more suitable role


However, recently I decided to look elsewhere, and took advice from an independent careers advisor (at significant expense) - but all the jobs I have applied for have said that I have been out of my chosen field for too long - I am not even getting a look in. IT is not a particularly good field to be job hunting in right now, and to be honest, (without prying for your details) your specialist field might be more suitable, if only from a job satisfaction point of view.

Does your company know your are not happy in your role? If they have you working on internal applications, is there any way you can try and move towards the business side of things, and try and build some more suitable/satisfying work experience over the life of a project?

What ever you choose to do, try not to rush into it without ensuring that your safety-net is in place.

HTH,
Chris

[Dan]

If your current job is secure (well as they ever are) I would continue doing what you do while quietly looking around for positions in your chosen field. The job market at the moment is pretty crap and companies can pick and choose from the cream, as there are always many more applicants than vacancies, and those applicants are generally fairly desperate. What this does mean is that when the market upturns, which it will eventually even with GWII looming those people will move on and you will have a better choice.

[plotloss]

If you can bear it then getting some Project Management qualifications such as PRINCE are financially rewarding. It all comes down to what you want from a job though, if its money and you are willing to put up with the shit for decent cash then IT is the place to stay. If you want to however get something rewarding out of your career and go to work wanting to go to work then moving into your chosen field is probably going to be better.

Oh, and one more thing, semi regular poster my arse

Matt.

[uncertain]

The company know that I am unhappy, but the usual string of excuses continues to come forth - economic climate etc.

My job itself is pretty secure - as much as you can be these days - so I am not about to throw away a decent wage even though my principles are telling me to give them the bird.

The company is quite insular and I have looked at PRINCE etc, but as it does not fit in with company policy it is not supported. Any ideas how much this costs as an external course?

At the end of the day I suppose I can live with having a shitty job, if it pays well. However, at the moment my concerns are long term. I appear to have little in the way of a career path, and do not know enough about IT to know where to focus my efforts.

I have quite quickly learned basic IT things - like using office products to a proficient level - however programming and HTML are still way beyond my understanding, and I do not seem to have the right brain for it to "fit".

Am I best looking for something like 2nd level support, where I can at least learn transferable skills? Any other avenues to persue?

[egomeister]

Is your degree in a subject that you can gain some experience in, using your spare time or by "doing" the subject yourself? Maybe it would be worth staying in your job to pay the bills while working towards something you want outside of that, to gain some experience? I would have thought a prospective employer would appreciate the commitment required to do both at the same time. I am stil at uni myself though so I have no experience in this respect! Maybe some of the more experienced PHers would like to lend their opinions on this?

[sparkey]

I'd advise you to keep looking in your chosen field, but stay in your current position until you've found something. I would advise against just staying there and going with the flow indefinately. I have gone with the flow and basically went where my career took me over the last 14 years(not even vaguely what I planned on leaving Uni) and have gotten more and more pissed off over the last 5 years that I'm doing something that is of no interest to me (although paid reasonably well).

Towards the middle of last year I decided I would move into something that I was interested in even if I had to take a significant pay cut. Luckily I have now found a (hopefully) good job in an industry that I am very interested in (Automotive) and I've even managed to keep at the same income level. I am currently serving my notice at my current employer and have a fantastic feeling of relief and anticipation.

Stick with the job hunting to find something thats of interest. It'll pay off eventually.

[CarZee]

plotloss said: semi regular poster my arse

[plipton]

Nope - if you are p155ed off now chances are you still will be in 5, 10, 20 years.

A couple of years out of your chosen field is a problem but not insurmountable and a bit of private study (which you are more than capable of) will overcome that problem.

Do what you have to do the be happy - retirement is a fecking long way off and 40 years of misery is 40 too many IMHO.

[bjwoods]

A prince 2 course can be quite expensive.

But the Prince 2 book "managing succesful projects with prince 2 " is about £60. Plus a couple of other pratical prince 2 courses (www.tso.co.uk)

And to be honest going on the caourse without first reading this book, or working in a Prince 2 environment, would not let you make the most of the course.

You do sound a little naive about the job market/situation and the nature of business. Times are hard, the company is 'probably' not out to get you, ie real reasons not excuses.

If you have a good working relationship, and they have any sense you will get to do what you want eventually. But for a number of reasons(possibly including management incompetence), this may not possible at this time.

Have you asked why, could be no budget yet, need you for the moment where you are, lots of other reasons, or maybe they do not see you in that role and won't say why. If you can find out why, it will make your current position easier to bare.

B (redundant Customer Project manger(a long time), going for an interview in 3 hours!!!!! )


>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 18th March 10:53

>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 18th March 10:54

[plipton]

bjwoods said: going for an interview in 3 hours!!!!! )

Good luck with the interview.

If you get the job will you be treating all PHers to cakes ????

[plotloss]

With regards to the sort of 'brain' required for an IT job well thats a very valid point. Some people just dont get it, thats not a bad thing in anyway just different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Obviously everything is logic based, so if you can follow logic and enjoy thinking of ways to improve or make a procedure more elegant then IT is probably a fairly good fit. This isnt just for programming but for most roles in a typical IT department.

If you are planning on a career in IT management then helpdesk is a good place, it gives you the knowledge of how an IT department works as a whole (which from recent experience of interviewing developers seems sadly lacking from the majority of candidates) and that will allow you to move forward at a more accelerated rate. However, you dont want to find yourself stuck on there for any length of time as its miserable!

On the whole IT is a fair place to waste some time, only thing is that its fairly easy to get caught in the trap of lifestyle expectation which is a bit of a shock should you come to follow your dreams (beefcake, BEEFCAKE!) in future.

Matt.

[Dai Capp]

Is it project managing you dislike or IT.

If it's the IT bit then you should be able to find PM work elsewhere relatively easily, I went from HR project management into New Product Introduction project management for a process control company, which clearly is vastly different!

I did however find it extremely difficult to get back into HR (which I did eventually).

If it's PM work you dislike then get your company to fund you in some relevent IT skills training which should be the least they can do after hiring you for a role and then sending you down a different route.

If it's both then ensure you have all the theoretical knowledge of any new developments in your chosen area and be prepared to talk extensively about them at interview. Go through agencies for jobs as they will be able to get you past the 'chuck it in the bin, he hasn't got enough experience' phase much easier than you will.

The job market for PM's was picking up but as the Middle East situation develops things have wobbled. This is good news for you though for two reasons. Firstly you have a job and it's easier to find another job when you already have one, this will give you a competitive advantage over any PM's who are out of work and are still looking when things pick up. A couple of months out of work doesn't help anyone. Secondly it gives you some breathing space to get that reading done and some research on the best agencies to use.

Good luck...

DC

[the jiffle king]

Hope I can be of some help:

I see a couple of things to help your situation given the current climate for jobs:

1) Work on persuading your company that people with a broader skills base are more valuable to the company and that a move is in their interest

2) Show far too much interest in the area you are wanting to move into, and offer to do work in that area outside of your normal role as a learning exercise to broaden your skills

3) Look elsewhere for an IT role in another company, but make it clear at interview that this is your way into doing what you really want to

4) Do some voluntary work for a charitable organisation in your field to beef up your CV

Sorry 4, not a couple.

I have been a services Manager in a company and look after career planning for my function, so if you want to set up a hotmail address and mail me off line, feel free




>> Edited by the jiffle king on Tuesday 18th March 19:17

[Psychobert]

Prince2 or any other project management qualification can be expensive; we are charged something like £1800 for a 5 day course and to be honest I doubt many people without a fair amount of project management experience..

You need to find out why you are not getting a look in in your chosen field; don't think the length of time you have been away from it is significant. Its specialist, so therefore ought to be a skills shortage in the area. Its slow right now though,economy isn't great..

Best way to move on is to network like crazy.. Find anyone in the area in the company thats doing what you want to do and bug the hell out of them.. Well, ok, maybe not that much.. Get yourself into the position where they think of you first when they have a problem that needs another pair of hands. Do the same in the outside world through professional groups. People are hiring at the moment, but some tend to only hire those that are known to them; got to get yourself known..

I'll have a think, mail me off line sometime..